UPDATE- Bin Laden is Dead-President spoke

[Nova]

Well, I know I wouldn't want an American corpse plastered all over the media... be careful what you ask for, imo. I would avoid setting this standard...

I have to admit I'm still confused as to why this issue is in its third or fourth page on this thread. I've already seen two fake "dead bin Ladens". Would showing me a third and calling it real make such a difference in my world?

 

[stilettos]

But even if your hypothesis were true, photos of OBL's dead body wouldn't make the case one way or another. So there's still no equivalent with Abu Ghraib.

Why is releasing the photo so important? With all the tools available today, none of us could verify its authenticity anyway. (And you KNOW there'd be a sudden rash of bloggers claiming the photo was a fake.)

Given the hard feelings from the previous decade, what is so wrong about a little sensitivity toward feelings in Muslim countries? We can't go to war with a billion Muslims, so would it be so bad if we got a few on our side?

Obviously, "sensitivity" didn't keep Barack Obama from invading Pakistan (technically an act of war, BTW) and killing bin Laden.

We rightly complain bitterly when Arabs celebrate American deaths (civilian or military); so why not take the high road and refrain from the high tech equivalent of dragging Osama Bin Laden's corpse through the streets and sticking his head on a pike at the castle gate?

I understand where you are coming from...BUT...you will never get them on your side until you convert. It is convert or beheading...no in between...their prophet proclaimed it. It matters not a whit what we do...the radical Islamic hates us because we exist. Their cries are the Jews first, US next.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Well, I know I wouldn't want an American corpse plastered all over the media... be careful what you ask for, imo. I would avoid setting this standard...

Well, that's already been done.
So it would not be us setting any standard.

 

[Quiche]

I understand where you are coming from...BUT...you will never get them on your side until you convert. It is convert or beheading...no in between...their prophet proclaimed it. It matters not a whit what we do...the radical Islamic hates us because we exist. Their cries are the Jews first, US next.

Hmmmm, sounds like Christianity a few hundred years ago. jmo

 

[Kimberlyd125]

When I said "technically" I meant it in the sense that means "in theory." Odds are the crimes at Abu Ghraib would not have been punished without some public outcry. See Quiche's link above.

And you're still blaming the messenger.

No, I'm SAYING the photos should not have been released.
Blaming the messenger would be blaming the media for what the soldiers did.

You are a writer NOVA, I'm sure you see the difference.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Frankly, If not already, I am hoping they are destroyed very soon.

I don't think they would EVER destroy them.
JMO

 

[Quiche]

Well, that's already been done.
So it would not be us setting any standard.

Okay, I'm glad I don't read/view where you do, but I have to admit, I'm pretty well read and I haven't seen that. I certainly hope it doesn't become the norm. mo

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Okay, I'm glad I don't read/view where you do, but I have to admit, I'm pretty well read and I haven't seen that. I certainly hope it doesn't become the norm. mo

I don't read/go anywhere but the news.
Somolia ring a bell. Black Hawk Down????

 

[stilettos]

Hmmmm, sounds like Christianity a few hundred years ago. jmo

Understood and ashamed to say I agree...but it does not make it any less true about radical Islam today.

 

[Nova]

I see there are some pictures... have at it.

pictures of osama bin laden dead - Google Search

Except for joke chops, those don't seem to be photos of a dead bin Laden. The photo sold to Reuters seems to be of the other three men who were killed during the firefight.

But I think Kimberly and Charlie are right: sooner or later photos will be leaked and we will all see them.

And maybe that's the intent. The U.S. government gets to say "It wasn't I" and those who want their curiosity sated will get to see a death shot.

Win win.

 

[Emma Peel]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/04/osama-bin-laden-daughter-held

Osama bin Laden's daughter witnessed his death, says Pakistani official

A 12-year-old girl found at the scene of the raid is being held by Pakistan's intelligence services along with other survivors ...
<snipped>
...Local authorities arrived on the scene of the raid as American special forces were leaving. It is believed that the attackers originally planned to evacuate all those in the compound but the breakdown of a helicopter meant there was no space to take them. <snipped>

Investigation of the incident by Pakistan supports accounts of the death of bin Laden.

 

[Nova]

I understand where you are coming from...BUT...you will never get them on your side until you convert. It is convert or beheading...no in between...their prophet proclaimed it. It matters not a whit what we do...the radical Islamic hates us because we exist. Their cries are the Jews first, US next.

That is true of the most radical only. Moderate Muslims interact with people of other faiths every day.

The goal is not to make more radicals with p.r. stunts like making a show out of killing a Muslim. Let's note we don't normally release death shots of serial killers or even mass murderers. I never saw a death shot of Timothy McVeigh, did you?

 

[Quiche]

I don't read/go anywhere but the news.
Somolia ring a bell. Black Hawk Down????

Black Hawk Down, the movie? I didn't see it. Yes, Somalia rings a bell-- I just looked up the battle of Mogadishu-- you mean the Canadian guy's pics? I'm glad I didn't see them, either.

Imo, just because it's been done before, doesn't mean it should go forward as though it's the new thing. Grief. :banghead:

 

[stilettos]

That is true of the most radical only. Moderate Muslims interact with people of other faiths every day.

The goal is not to make more radicals with p.r. stunts like making a show out of killing a Muslim. Let's note we don't normally release death shots of serial killers or even mass murderers. I never saw a death shot of Timothy McVeigh, did you?

No, and my debate was not about the photos. I think it is going to be controversial whatever happens. The moderate Muslims interact with other faiths but their men are taught at the mosque to hate and destroy us.

Would have had no problem with the photos of McVeigh....or BinLaden...

 

[Nova]

No, I'm SAYING the photos should not have been released.
Blaming the messenger would be blaming the media for what the soldiers did.

You are a writer NOVA, I'm sure you see the difference.

So you are blaming those who released the photos; you are saying they did wrong. In this instance, they are the "messengers" as in the old adage.

Of course, I realize you aren't calling for them to be killed. But if the soldiers who erred had not done so, there would have been no photos to release. That's where the blame lies.

 

[Nova]

Understood and ashamed to say I agree...but it does not make it any less true about radical Islam today.

But in most places, Christianity changed (thanks to centuries of religious war and the Enlightenment).

Our goal is to help radical Islam do the same.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

s

Black Hawk Down, the movie? I didn't see it. Yes, Somalia rings a bell-- I just looked up the battle of Mogadishu-- you mean the Canadian guy's pics? I'm glad I didn't see them, either.

Imo, just because it's been done before, doesn't mean it should go forward as though it's the new thing. Grief. :banghead:

The true story of Black Hawk Down was made into a movie.
Black Hawk Down is A LOT MORE THAN A MOVIE.

NO, I mean the American guy's pic. Need a link?

You seem to be belittleing what I say and where I get my info.
If you need links to what I say, I will be glad to provide them.

Like what I say or not, I normally do not make statements about things I don't research.

You brought up never wanting to see a dead American's body plastered all over. I simply let you know it's been done before and provided an example.
He was dragged, beaten by citizens, and a lot more HORRIBLE THINGS.

It happened in Mogadishu in 1993.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

But in most places, Christianity changed (thanks to centuries of religious war and the Enlightenment).

Our goal is to help radical Islam do the same.

Good luck reaching that goal.

 

[Quiche]

s

The true story of Black Hawk Down was made into a movie.
Black Hawk Down is A LOT MORE THAN A MOVIE.

NO, I mean the American guy's pic. Need a link?

You seem to be belittleing what I say and where I get my info.
If you need links to what I say, I will be glad to provide them.

Like what I say or not, I normally do not make statements about things I don't research.

You brought up never wanting to see a dead American's body plastered all over. I simply let you know it's been done before and provided an example.
He was dragged, beaten by citizens, and a lot more HORRIBLE THINGS.

It happened in Mogadishu in 1993.

Please don't feel belittled, I simply don't agree with you. I understand the picture was of an American, taken by a Canadian. Anyhow, I don't want to link to it, but if you have it perhaps others might. jmo

 

[Nova]

No, and my debate was not about the photos. I think it is going to be controversial whatever happens. The moderate Muslims interact with other faiths but their men are taught at the mosque to hate and destroy us.

Would have had no problem with the photos of McVeigh....or BinLaden...

I don't really have a problem one way or the other.

But if otherwise moderate Muslims would take offense, let's don't show the pictures. Give peace a chance.