US coal mine collapse traps six-Utah - Thread No. 3

[dingo]

I guess in a way if it turns out "our" 6 miners are deceased it would be a comfort in knowing that they aren't alone. They went with some of their best buddies/brothers'

Thats a very nice way to think of it RK....I hope the families can find peace and comfort thinking this way aswell.

 

[Jaded]

It's horrible but I have a feeling those poor men ARE under all that rubble. I'm beginning to think they should just seal it off and make a tomb, as horrid as that is for the families. This whole thing is just so incredibly sad and tragic and extra-terrible.

I was thinking about this last night - being under all the rubble - even being trapped in total darkness. It scared me to think about it. I truly feel for the families and hope that somehow they can find peace.

 

[Buzz Mills]

Senate Plans Hearing on Mine Collapse

HUNTINGTON, Utah (Aug. 24) - Even as crews began a last effort Thursday to find six trapped miners, lawmakers in Washington launched separate reviews of whether the mining that preceded the thunderous cave-in was too aggressive.

As a drill bored a sixth hole into the side of a mountain, Sen. Edward Kennedy, chairman of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, demanded a litany of documents from the Labor Department about the Crandall Canyon Mine and its operators. "The loss of life at the mine, and the devastating emotional toll on families of the victims, underscore the urgent need for a thorough examination of our federal system of mine safety," Kennedy, D-Mass., wrote to Labor Secretary Elaine Chao.

The six miners have been trapped since Aug. 6, and searchers have found no sign they survived. Three other miners were killed and six more injured last week when the shifting mountain crumbled around them as they tunneled toward the missing men. Tunneling has not resumed. Kennedy wants to review several petitions the mine's co-owner, Bob Murray, made to the Mine Safety and Health Administration for changes in his mining plans at Crandall Canyon, among other documents. Experts have said the proposed changes were risky and could have led to the initial collapse.

The Senate Appropriations subcommittee that oversees labor issues announced plans for a hearing on the mine collapse when Congress returns from its summer bseak Sept. 5. The subcommittee wants to question Murray and MSHA chief Richard Stickler.

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/senate-plans-hearing-on-mine-collapse/20070823025409990001

 

[beagledog]

I have been reading your discussion for quite a while. I haven't seen these posted, but I apologize if it's a duplicate. These links are to the KSL website. KSL is one of the television stations in Utah. Many of the people that have posted on the KSL discussion board are from the area that the Crandall Canyon mine is located.

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=1683853&comments=true

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=1678072&comments=true

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=1678072&comments=true

 

[SewingDeb]

Thanks for the links Beagledog. Interesting reading.

 

[cheko1]

The families should not have to deal with this. Since day #3 miner rescue teams from all over the world, (dingo's Matt Gill who helped save the Aussie miners after 14 days even offered to help) All were turned down by Murray. He refused, stating he knew his mine & could get them out. His attempts failed & 3 died, 6 injured.

I am not blaming Murray......but

Should Murray of been in charge of rescue operations?
Since when amidst a disaster does the owners step in & control the recovery?
Why did MSHA allow Murray to control the rescue?

 

[Buzz Mills]

The families should not have to deal with this. Since day #3 miner rescue teams from all over the world, (dingo's Matt Gill who helped save the Aussie miners after 14 days even offered to help) All were turned down by Murray. He refused, stating he knew his mine & could get them out. His attempts failed & 3 died, 6 injured.

I am not blaming Murray......but

Should Murray of been in charge of rescue operations?
Since when amidst a disaster does the owners step in & control the recovery?
Why did MSHA allow Murray to control the rescue?

The miners who attempted the rescue were trained, and they were accompanied on site by MSHA employees.

A disaster of this nature often dictates what can be done to facilitate a rescue. I don't know that anything else could have been done, regardless of who, other than MSHA, directed the rescue operation.

 

[cheko1]

The miners who attempted the rescue were trained, and they were accompanied on site by MSHA employees.

A disaster of this nature often dictates what can be done to facilitate a rescue. I don't know that anything else could have been done, regardless of who, other than MSHA, directed the rescue operation.

Yes your correct! The miners are given 32 hrs training each when hired. Then 8 hrs yearly.....each yr there after. The MSHA employee who was killed had just days earlier stated the ceiling of the mine was in good shape.

I was reading some on the site Beagle posted today! By the way Beagle that is some good reading, thank you!!!

At the very beginning after the 1st collapse: I had heard mention of entrance # 4 but never paid any attention. While reading at the site Beagle posted I found this rather interesting & thought I'd post it:
Here it is::::

I still think Murray and Stickler knew that this mine was unsafe, there is alot coming out about this guy doing things that he should not have been doing and then Bush bringing him in the backdoor. I feel that they should back up the promise that was made to these families, he told them they would have closure, so far I have seen nothing that gives these familes any type of closure, risking more lives you know no one can make the right decision here, but there has to be something that can be done. For two days now I have been asking about that 4th entrance and no one seems to know, so again I will pose that question, does anyone know about the 4th entrance that Bob Murray will not let anyone near. Now you all can disagree with this but you know there are more people out there that feel the same way I do. Me myself I would want to be able to hold my loved one and say a final goodbye. My heart goes out to the miners familes, all of them

 

[Buzz Mills]

SNIP

I still think Murray and Stickler knew that this mine was unsafe, there is alot coming out about this guy doing things that he should not have been doing and then Bush bringing him in the backdoor. I feel that they should back up the promise that was made to these families, he told them they would have closure, so far I have seen nothing that gives these familes any type of closure, risking more lives you know no one can make the right decision here, but there has to be something that can be done. For two days now I have been asking about that 4th entrance and no one seems to know, so again I will pose that question, does anyone know about the 4th entrance that Bob Murray will not let anyone near. Now you all can disagree with this but you know there are more people out there that feel the same way I do. Me myself I would want to be able to hold my loved one and say a final goodbye. My heart goes out to the miners familes, all of them

I don't see anything in that paragraph that offers anything at all, except speculation about a possible 4th entrance, No facts, just the wish for closure,

 

[cheko1]

I don't see anything in that paragraph that offers anything at all, except speculation about a possible 4th entrance, No facts, just the wish for closure,

If there is a 4th entrance which was stated at the beginning it makes you wonder why they never went in that way to get to the miners ? That was / is the reason it was interesting. Could possibly be speculation & no facts yet I have found.

 

[Lauren]

Bless those poor miners. What a horrid job that is. So unsafe. I hope at least they get the bodies out for a proper burial for the families.

 

[Buzz Mills]

If there is a 4th entrance which was stated at the beginning it makes you wonder why they never went in that way to get to the miners ? That was / is the reason it was interesting. Could possibly be speculation & no facts yet I have found.

It doesn't make me wonder as there was never any mention of it. Mention of a supposed 4th entrance, doesn't tell us anything at all about it. If it was an issue I would think it would have come out early on, and all through this lengthy saga.

 

[Buzz Mills]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thursday, August 23, 12 p.m. EDT
The drill has been situated at the #6 drill pad site. Drilling is expected to begin in a few hours. The drill will intersect the mine in the #1 entry, halfway between the #138 and #139 crosscuts. A camera dropped down the # 5 borehole, which punched through yesterday at approximately 10:30 a.m. EDT, revealed no discernable images.

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

Thank you beagledog for posting this here. I have been reading their comments. Why I didn't think to post it here..I dunno

I have been reading your discussion for quite a while. I haven't seen these posted, but I apologize if it's a duplicate. These links are to the KSL website. KSL is one of the television stations in Utah. Many of the people that have posted on the KSL discussion board are from the area that the Crandall Canyon mine is located.

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=1683853&comments=true

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=1678072&comments=true

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

Families May to Take Legal Action
August 24th, 2007 @ 12:30pm


Sarah Dallof Reporting

It's been 19 days since six men became trapped in the Crandall Canyon mine after a cave-in.

During that time, the emotions of the families have gone from hope to sadness and now anger.

In Huntington, life is starting to get back to normal. A lot of the national media has gone home, but for these people, they are still holding on to hope.
New signs appear daily on some of the main streets in the town. They say things like, "We love our miners," and "We pray, and we hope."

The fight to these miners' families, however, is just beginning. According to the Deseret Morning News, they may seek legal action to get their loved ones back dead or alive.

The statement also read, "We want our family members returned to us alive and, heaven forbid, dead. Don't let them leave them in the mine."

They intend to file a temporary restraining order preventing the sealing of the mine. They believe not enough is being done. "We have prayed day and night for a miracle, and now we feel Mr. Murray is abandoning us.

Sealing up the mine with the loved ones inside, without knowing if they perished, is outrageous to us," family spokesman Sonny Olsen read in a statement from the families.

More at link: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=1689307

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

Hope Fleeting at Crandall Canyon
August 24th, 2007 @ 11:21am

Andrew Adams, KSL Newsradio

Hope and optimism are giving way to sore feet, deflated spirits and burnout at the Crandall Canyon mine.

A week ago mortified public officials were revealing that tragedy struck a second time. Three rescuers killed, six more injured, and news of the six trapped miners got progressively worse from there.

"The suspension that we have on the underground operation will remain suspended indefinitely," announced Richard Stickler, head of the Mine Safety and Health Administration.

Now it's a much different picture altogether. The national media has given up, packed up and gone home.

Hours spent at the mine are hours of waiting and fighting for sanity.

The sound of hope has been replaced with the incessant drone of a TV satellite truck on standby with the unsettling constancy of a fast-moving river, and moments of generalized panic spawned by insects straight out of a horror movie.

Ten hours a day since the mine collapsed, Lori, with the Utah Department of Transportation (UDOT), has been watching it all while directing traffic. "I gave up hope quite a while ago," she said.

"I guess we'll know when they get that fifth hole dug," Ralph, another UDOT worker, added.

Ralph's lost track, too. It seems like every day brings word of a new borehole, low oxygen levels and rubble piles in the old holes.
Even Emery County Sheriff Lamar Guymon acknowledges his deputies are tiring. "We've been here 24 hours a day. Here we are. We're still waiting. The news media has other things they have to go cover, and this is becoming old news." (Note: I don't like how this is worded at all. Becoming old news?? I bet that makes the miners families feel all warm & fuzzy!)

More at link: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=1690537

 

[cheko1]

Thanks for the links RKnowley......

 

[close_enough]

Thank you beagledog for posting this here. I have been reading their comments. Why I didn't think to post it here..I dunno

yes, yes...thanks from me also....i'll keep an eye on these links!

...eta.....added ksl.com to my faves to keep up, locally....

 

[FlowerChild]

The "authorities" (not the mine owner) are not going to allow any recovery of remains that would endanger another life. The family "wants" but we all know sometimes you don't get what you "want".

The families are already going thru some of the grief stages - anger is one and I am certain they have a LOT of that - and it's understandable. I REALLY hope some shyster ambulance chasing lawyer doesn't get involved and convince the families to waste money on filing lawsuits to prevent the mine from being closed or to demand the recovery of bodies that may very well be under thousands of TONS of debris. The MSHA is NEVER going to allow a recovery of bodies (or a search for them) that puts a person inside the mine...the families are asking the impossible be done. It isn't MONEY that is preventing the recovery - it's the task itself. 9 dead men are already 9 too many...the mine has claimed it's last victim.

I hope the mine owners are providing income for the families - until the men are declared dead the finances of the families will be difficult to sort out. The miner's paychecks are useless - you cannot legally cash a check made out to someone else and legally THAT money must go into the estate of the deceased. The owner isn't being "cold" - the actual paychecks are useless to the families. Any funds the mine owner might provide would have to be provided directly to the "next of kin" in cash or in THEIR name . And if the men are declared dead the legal "next of kin" must be decided, dependents verified, benefits paid etc. Bank accounts may be frozen, assets frozen, family issues may need to be legally decided. And again, the mine OWNERS have NO CONTROL over those things....all they can do is provide interim support to the families - probably based on the information the missing men themselves provided to their employer.

The BEST thing that could happen at this time is to have FREE grief counselors and specialists is estate law in Utah to work with the families (without calling them grief/estate counselors) so that their needs are met and they have the proper assistance to do the "legal mambo". I am sure there will benefits and a cash settlement offered by the mine owner - but as usual, not if the families retain a lawyer and decide to sue. There hasn't been any discussion because the families obviously do not want to accept the demise of their loved ones and they appear to have already hired a lawyer and proceeded to sue the mine owners. Any offers now would be seen as an insult by the families and would be rejected anyway. Their lawyer has already told them how much they could get and that they must remain united to get it - what he has failed to tell them is HE will get HALF of it and NONE of them will see a dime for 2 years or more.

As always I send thoughts of peace and comfort to all involved.

My Opinion

 

[close_enough]

a lot of folks feel the same as you FlowerChild.....you make good points on this, imo.....

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=1689307&comments=true