Found Deceased UT-5 -Year-Old Elizabeth Shelley Found Deceased (UNCLE ARRESTED) #4

[Trudie]

Public defender speaks about Alex Whipple disclosing where Lizzy Shelley’s body was located

Idk if this was posted yesterday

 

[mickey2942]

Public defender speaks about Alex Whipple disclosing where Lizzy Shelley’s body was located

Idk if this was posted yesterday

"He could face up to life in prison if convicted".

If? I think that this is a done deal. AW is lucky he is in jail, and he may not even be treated well there. 100 years there would have been a mob ready to do some true pioneer justice.

 

[smucklecrumble]

In Memory of Elizabeth “Lizzy “ Shelley

Official page for Lizzy

 

[pepper 34]

I was also thinking about that- why Lizzy, how did he grab her, what set him off...
Maybe- just my opinion, not a fact- she got up from her room to go to the toilet or something, and he was still (as he said in the affidavit) there, finishing his beer. Maybe he saw the opportunity then.
Also, it would be much easier to grab her there than to grab her asleep in her bedroom- she would probably wake up and scream, thus waking the infant up and their parents would have heard and intervened.

I think AW is always angry. I think he likes feeling angry because at least he feels "something" when he's angry. If he wasn't angry he'd just be depressed and depression is unbearable... anger is a better feeling for him, imo. In retrospect, I think he enjoys when something happens to cause him to become full of rage because then his impulse takes over and he gets relief from locating an immediate target and venting physically until his rage subsides back into "just angry as usual again."

When first arrested, he was hardly communicating with LE. But, one subject he brought up was that his sister and her boyfriend were "fooling around" sexually. He brought it up during his "oh, poor me childhood stuff" ....so it's very significant, imo.

His sister, her boyfriend, AW and a video game (along with at least beer and rum) were apparently enjoying a party of 3 and suddenly 2 in the group created a party of 2 with the 3d wheel supposedly "looking like he'd pass out" left out on the couch alone.

Odd man out... bedroom door closed "in his face"... left out once again, as usual. "Bye... you're not invited and we've left you behind... change in plans! We don't want you. Reject." It's a different version from childhood but any version will do that triggers him. He gets closed out and left behind, again... that's a big cause and reaction for him, imo. It wouldn't be like that for most people. That's how he sees it through his own set of "persecution complex glasses" he wears on a chain around his neck.

Did he walk over to the bedroom door and quietly listen to what was going on behind the closed door? I think he might have. He may have been wrong, too, but he thinks he was right or so he told LE. We can't know. But, the real problem was that Lizzy was right there outside the bedroom door. If he was building up to a rage over real or imagined rejection... there she was between the true objects of his rage and himself.

Note the timing: He said that's when he left the house because he said he didn't want to hear them making love. I believe he told the truth there. His sister and boyfriend making love caused him to leave the house at that time. Conveniently missing is that he took Lizzy with him. (lie by omission)

So, now his temper is set to explode and he needs something to beat up or throw or destroy. Lizzy was sleeping outside his sister's door and the knife was in the kitchen and the PVC pipe might be kept in the house as protection for the sister and boyfriend. Attacking Lizzy was so much easier than confronting and attacking 2 adults.

There's no higher level of thought involved, imo. He goes from anger to a rage and impulse takes over.
No more complicated than you or I getting stung and, before we think, we reach out and slap or brush at the area where we feel the bite. I think it's a chronic reaction for him and the fuse was getting shorter and shorter the older he became and this makes him extremely dangerous.

I used to know a man who went from anger~ to rage~ to attack~ to resultant relief and calm~ just that quickly and habitually. I noticed that , so very often, the target was not the actual cause of the rage and was almost always an inappropriate choice. But, the true target was always someone who was a greater challenge, stronger, more physically and emotionally threatening to the attacker. The chosen target was always just there, and "handy and easy to destroy."

Imo, AW simply "killed three birds with stone by hurting them all" that night and he felt good for a very short while. And now he's got the rest of his life to feel sorry for himself... and he will do that every day.
My whole comment is opinion.

 

[tlcya]

I think AW is always angry. I think he likes feeling angry because at least he feels "something" when he's angry. If he wasn't angry he'd just be depressed and depression is unbearable... anger is a better feeling for him, imo. In retrospect, I think he enjoys when something happens to cause him to become full of rage because then his impulse takes over and he gets relief from locating an immediate target and venting physically until his rage subsides back into "just angry as usual again."

When first arrested, he was hardly communicating with LE. But, one subject he brought up was that his sister and her boyfriend were "fooling around" sexually. He brought it up during his "oh, poor me childhood stuff" ....so it's very significant, imo.

His sister, her boyfriend, AW and a video game (along with at least beer and rum) were apparently enjoying a party of 3 and suddenly 2 in the group created a party of 2 with the 3d wheel supposedly "looking like he'd pass out" left out on the couch alone.

Odd man out... bedroom door closed "in his face"... left out once again, as usual. "Bye... you're not invited and we've left you behind... change in plans! We don't want you. Reject." It's a different version from childhood but any version will do that triggers him. He gets closed out and left behind, again... that's a big cause and reaction for him, imo. It wouldn't be like that for most people. That's how he sees it through his own set of "persecution complex glasses" he wears on a chain around his neck.

Did he walk over to the bedroom door and quietly listen to what was going on behind the closed door? I think he might have. He may have been wrong, too, but he thinks he was right or so he told LE. We can't know. But, the real problem was that Lizzy was right there outside the bedroom door. If he was building up to a rage over real or imagined rejection... there she was between the true objects of his rage and himself.

Note the timing: He said that's when he left the house because he said he didn't want to hear them making love. I believe he told the truth there. His sister and boyfriend making love caused him to leave the house at that time. Conveniently missing is that he took Lizzy with him. (lie by omission)

So, now his temper is set to explode and he needs something to beat up or throw or destroy. Lizzy was sleeping outside his sister's door and the knife was in the kitchen and the PVC pipe might be kept in the house as protection for the sister and boyfriend. Attacking Lizzy was so much easier than confronting and attacking 2 adults.

There's no higher level of thought involved, imo. He goes from anger to a rage and impulse takes over.
No more complicated than you or I getting stung and, before we think, we reach out and slap or brush at the area where we feel the bite. I think it's a chronic reaction for him and the fuse was getting shorter and shorter the older he became and this makes him extremely dangerous.

I used to know a man who went from anger~ to rage~ to attack~ to resultant relief and calm~ just that quickly and habitually. I noticed that , so very often, the target was not the actual cause of the rage and was almost always an inappropriate choice. But, the true target was always someone who was a greater challenge, stronger, more physically and emotionally threatening to the attacker. The chosen target was always just there, and "handy and easy to destroy."

Imo, AW simply "killed three birds with stone by hurting them all" that night and he felt good for a very short while. And now he's got the rest of his life to feel sorry for himself... and he will do that every day.
My whole comment is opinion.

excellent post, you have articulated what I think was his "motive" so much better than I have tried to.

 

[helpfulcharlie]

I think AW is always angry. I think he likes feeling angry because at least he feels "something" when he's angry. If he wasn't angry he'd just be depressed and depression is unbearable... anger is a better feeling for him, imo. In retrospect, I think he enjoys when something happens to cause him to become full of rage because then his impulse takes over and he gets relief from locating an immediate target and venting physically until his rage subsides back into "just angry as usual again."

When first arrested, he was hardly communicating with LE. But, one subject he brought up was that his sister and her boyfriend were "fooling around" sexually. He brought it up during his "oh, poor me childhood stuff" ....so it's very significant, imo.

His sister, her boyfriend, AW and a video game (along with at least beer and rum) were apparently enjoying a party of 3 and suddenly 2 in the group created a party of 2 with the 3d wheel supposedly "looking like he'd pass out" left out on the couch alone.

Odd man out... bedroom door closed "in his face"... left out once again, as usual. "Bye... you're not invited and we've left you behind... change in plans! We don't want you. Reject." It's a different version from childhood but any version will do that triggers him. He gets closed out and left behind, again... that's a big cause and reaction for him, imo. It wouldn't be like that for most people. That's how he sees it through his own set of "persecution complex glasses" he wears on a chain around his neck.

Did he walk over to the bedroom door and quietly listen to what was going on behind the closed door? I think he might have. He may have been wrong, too, but he thinks he was right or so he told LE. We can't know. But, the real problem was that Lizzy was right there outside the bedroom door. If he was building up to a rage over real or imagined rejection... there she was between the true objects of his rage and himself.

Note the timing: He said that's when he left the house because he said he didn't want to hear them making love. I believe he told the truth there. His sister and boyfriend making love caused him to leave the house at that time. Conveniently missing is that he took Lizzy with him. (lie by omission)

So, now his temper is set to explode and he needs something to beat up or throw or destroy. Lizzy was sleeping outside his sister's door and the knife was in the kitchen and the PVC pipe might be kept in the house as protection for the sister and boyfriend. Attacking Lizzy was so much easier than confronting and attacking 2 adults.

There's no higher level of thought involved, imo. He goes from anger to a rage and impulse takes over.
No more complicated than you or I getting stung and, before we think, we reach out and slap or brush at the area where we feel the bite. I think it's a chronic reaction for him and the fuse was getting shorter and shorter the older he became and this makes him extremely dangerous.

I used to know a man who went from anger~ to rage~ to attack~ to resultant relief and calm~ just that quickly and habitually. I noticed that , so very often, the target was not the actual cause of the rage and was almost always an inappropriate choice. But, the true target was always someone who was a greater challenge, stronger, more physically and emotionally threatening to the attacker. The chosen target was always just there, and "handy and easy to destroy."

Imo, AW simply "killed three birds with stone by hurting them all" that night and he felt good for a very short while. And now he's got the rest of his life to feel sorry for himself... and he will do that every day.
My whole comment is opinion.

You've summed up the "incel" problem right there.

 

[pepper 34]

excellent post, you have articulated what I think was his "motive" so much better than I have tried to.

Thank-you, I believe it's the motive, too. This's why it's so very sad to me. Change even the tiniest detail and Lizzy wouldn't have been the recipient of his rage. I'll never believe he had Lizzy in his cross hairs before that night. I'll never believe he ever gave Lizzy even the tiniest bit of thought. His life was dominated by thoughts of himself. It's just the most unlucky and sad case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. (Considering she was actually exactly where she was supposed to be... safe at home and in bed.)
This was going to happen to someone, imo. Lizzy was there and the time had arrived. Someone else, who will never know it, has been spared and their life goes on because of Lizzy being there that night. Maybe more than one other person. Jmo.

 

[moonlessnight]

that's what I've been hoping too. I don't think those things are survivable at that age, but who knows how long it took....

From the bottom of my heart I hope little Elizabeth was dead before this worthless slug did all those monstruous things to her. Omg omg

 

[Teche]

It is a cultural thing in Utah, probably closed casket, but with lots of pictures of Elizabeth. Funerals are a big deal in Utah, with dinners at church after the service at the cemetery. I am not sure how things go outside of Utah, but there is usually a viewing at night for people to attend, no formal service.

Then, a few days later, a service at church, then everyone goes to the cemetery for a service, and back to church again for dinner. Not to be ghoulish, but the food is always excellent. The menu is usually ham, "funeral potatoes", salads, casseroles, lots of cake.

https://www.cookingchanneltv.com/recipes/funeral-potatoes-utah-potato-casserole-2108116

I would bet funerals are big deal in most if not all states and cultures. Some more celebratory than others.

 

[pepper 34]

*

 

[Idunno]

If that was his motive, then why remove her skirt? IMO he did more than just stab her. Maybe that motive is right but it’s missing the SA piece which makes him a predator and that much more repulsive.

 

[tmar]

Thanks to all for the welcoming environment. My fixation on this case made me connect the dots between my own CSA and my horrific realization that this little girl could have been me (based upon level of violence I experienced during abuse). And funnily it seems to aid me in partially forgiving my dissociative mother for checking out and binge reading murder mysteries. Her dad was my main abuser, so I imagine that solving one violent crime after another from her living room gave her some sense of mastery over her nonrealized trauma, and allowed a controlled window to feel she had one up on the bad guys. More to mull.

Welcome cdn
Pleased you are posting here now.
You certainly are fortunate, that you have moved on from your traumatic past, unlike poor Lizzie.
Hope your future, is an upward spiral in life.

 

[tmar]

I read this from a MSM twitter - that they'd determined but were not releasing COD at this time. Can't recall the name of the source though.

PS - my first post here. I've been following this thread since the day of this heinous crime; I was born and raised in Logan and appreciate finding this source of information to help frame things as the search was ongoing. It's truly been the only news in our valley all week and been so unsettling. A lot of local sources were not as quick nor as accurate as this aggregation. Thanks to all of you!.

Welcome loganlocal,
Being a local, the horrid news would be overwhelming.
Possibly people you know, would have known of this family, and the heartache associated.

 

[kgreg2529]

I'd kill him with my bare hands if my brother ever did this to my daughter

Absolutely. My husband would have found him before his cop friends did.

 

[kiaatcher]

I would bet funerals are big deal in most if not all states and cultures. Some more celebratory than others.

I'm not sure if Lizzy's family is Mormon, but if so they usually follow the same process. Open casket viewing the night before where family can display pictures and knick knacks from the person. Day of another open casket viewing with a family prayer, followed by the closing of the casket (very dramatic IMO). Carry it off to the sacrament room where they play music, have the obituary read, and a religious speech by the bishop. Then the casket is buried.
I've been to both Mormon and non-Mormon funerals in Utah, and they have always followed this process. It's just a cultural thing despite there being religious roots. Although this is a child who was brutally murdered, and not someone who died of old age, so I'm not sure how that would change things.
All MOO and not necessarily fact.
Edit: And yes, the food is amazing, especially funeral potatoes. As much as I despise the gossiping and pretentious nature among the Relief Society ladies, they're amazing at cooking

 

[tmar]

If that was his motive, then why remove her skirt? IMO he did more than just stab her. Maybe that motive is right but it’s missing the SA piece which makes him a predator and that much more repulsive.

Welcome Idunno.
Your first post here, for this horrid crime.
Perhaps the skirt was removed, to prevent identification, as AW was not thinking well.
MOO.

 

[CSIDreamer]

It is a cultural thing in Utah, probably closed casket, but with lots of pictures of Elizabeth. Funerals are a big deal in Utah, with dinners at church after the service at the cemetery. I am not sure how things go outside of Utah, but there is usually a viewing at night for people to attend, no formal service.

Then, a few days later, a service at church, then everyone goes to the cemetery for a service, and back to church again for dinner. Not to be ghoulish, but the food is always excellent. The menu is usually ham, "funeral potatoes", salads, casseroles, lots of cake.

https://www.cookingchanneltv.com/recipes/funeral-potatoes-utah-potato-casserole-2108116

That's a normal funeral for Indiana. We have "wakes" too at least that's what I call them. Everyone getting together ASAP usually at the home of the deceased. Pretty much an informal gathering until it breaks up the night of the funeral.

 

[littlegreen]

I remember reading something way upthread that said her body was in “relatively good condition” and the family could do a “proper burial.” If they are indeed doing an open-casket service, that eases a lot of my deepest fears about what happened to Lizzy on that horrific night.

 

[kiaatcher]

This was going to happen to someone, imo. Lizzy was there and the time had arrived. Someone else, who will never know it, has been spared and their life goes on because of Lizzy being there that night. Maybe more than one other person. Jmo.

I completely agree, but I also believe that Lizzy would have been hurt by him at some point. Whether it would have been now or when she would be 10-15 y/o, AW would have found the opportunity to take advantage of her. He just found that perfect situation, in his mind, during that time. MOO.

 

[tlcya]

If that was his motive, then why remove her skirt? IMO he did more than just stab her. Maybe that motive is right but it’s missing the SA piece which makes him a predator and that much more repulsive.

IMO In most instances rape isn't all about sex, it's about power and control. What better way to say F you to people you feel have marginalized or dismissed you than to assault their beloved baby girl, the baby girl who appears to have been loved and cared for by her immediate and extended family? That same family you feel denied you those things? It's the ultimate in your face - so there - to all of them. That is why I will not be surprised to hear it if there was indeed SA. I think SA is very compatible to that theory of motive. MOO

ETA Welcome to WS