UT - Kouri Richins, 33, Author, wife, mom, charged in husband’s unexpected death last year, May 2023 #3
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Carmen is asked to leave so attorneys can wrangle about how best to admit something about the texts messages and photographs that are part of the Cellbrite data. State wants to discuss the content of those texts w Carmen but the Cellebrite stuff hasn't been admitted yet so Defense objects.
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I do not care for Lewis' attitude today. Neither does the judge IMO
Recess until 2:10 pm MT
Sidebar is over. Judge asks the jurors to take a break and asks Carmen to leave the courtroom so a legal issue can be discussed. Judge is talking about the exhibit Bloodworth hopes to admit. It contains text message content that was obtained through Cellebrite.
Bloodworth says the issue can be solved if the Cellebrite heading is redacted from the top of the exhibit. Defense attorney Wendy Lewis says this is a Cellebrite report and should not be admitted because Cellebrite has not been introduced into the trial. Lewis is arguing with the judge and judge asks her to "please stay focused."
Judge Mrazik rules that just the table in the exhibit may come in through this witness. State will need to amend the exhibit.
Bloodworth says the issue can be solved if the Cellebrite heading is redacted from the top of the exhibit. Defense attorney Wendy Lewis says this is a Cellebrite report and should not be admitted because Cellebrite has not been introduced into the trial. Lewis is arguing with the judge and judge asks her to "please stay focused."
Judge Mrazik rules that just the table in the exhibit may come in through this witness. State will need to amend the exhibit.
Kouri Richins, a Utah mother of three boys, is accused of fatally poisoning her husband, Eric Richins, in 2022. She is on trial in Summit County, Utah, on charges of aggravated murder, attempted aggravated murder, insurance fraud and forgery.Kouri Richins, a Utah mother of three boys, is accused of fatally poisoning her husband, Eric Richins, in 2022. She is on trial in Summit County, Utah, on charges of aggravated murder, attempted aggravated murder, insurance fraud and forgery.
Today is the fourth day of the trial. It is scheduled to begin each day at 8:30 a.m. East Idaho News will be posting live written updates all day. Please excuse typos. You can watch the livestream here. The most recent updates are at the top of this page.
11:32 a.m. Before break, judge says to gallery, “If ANY of you see a juror out in the wild, I need you to turn around and walk away. I cannot emphasize this more clearly.”
11:25 a.m. Jury dismissed for lunch until 12:30 p.m. Prosecutor Brad Bloodworth asks to make a record that defense counsel is making hypotheticals with certain witnesses. Bloodworth says for a “fact” witness, a hypothetical has to involve admissible evidence. Judge asks prosecution to object in the future if this issue comes up. Judge also asks for a “one horse, one rider” policy at sidebars where only one attorney from each side comes up, rather than multiple attorneys. We are in recess until 12:30 p.m.
11:23 a.m. Next witness is ready, but prosecution suggests possibly taking lunch now to now split up direct questioning. Judge asks attorneys to approach.
11:20 a.m. Sidebar with the witness is done. Jury is being invited back into courtroom. Nester asks how he would test an empty pill bottle. Holden says there was no pill bottle to test. No further questions from either side.
11:14 a.m. Holden needs to look at his notes to answer Nester’s next questions. Jury is dismissed while Burmester and Nester review the witness’s notes and ask him questions about them.
11:12 a.m. Holden tested 19 items. He’s asked if he ever tested a pill bottle. Prosecution objects. Sidebar. Nester asks the process of how Holden would test an empty bottle.
11:09 a.m. Nester pulls up a report for Holden to review. She asks the name of the officer who got the items to Holden. It was Jamie Woody. The person who delivered the items to Holden was Chelsea Gipson. Nester asks Holden if he ran tests on any of the pills or items to see if they contained oxycodone. He has never been asked to test for oxycodone or hydrocodone.
11:06 a.m. Holden was only looking for fentanyl. He was not able to confirm any fentanyl on anything he tested. Burmester has nothing further. Defense attorney Kathryn Nester will question Holden.
11:04 a.m. Next witness is Bryan Holden with the Utah Bureau of Forensic Services in the Utah State Crime Lab. He is being questioned by prosecutor Fred Burmester. Holden was given a large number of items to test and was asked to look for fentanyl in all of the items submitted to the lab.
10:56 a.m. After the information is pulled off, it was given back to the Summit County Sheriff’s Office. Eng-Tow is certified with Cellebrite. Ramos has no further questions. Chervenak has one follow-up. She asks if, once the data is downloaded, can it be manipulated. He explains that the process can not. Nothing further. Witness excused.
10:52 a.m. Prosecutor Lindsay Chervenak is questioning Eng-Tow. She asks him about the cell phones Eng-Tow downloaded – two iPhones and he was given the passcodes to each phone from the Summit County Sheriff’s Office. Chervenak has no further questions. Defense attorney Alex Ramos asks Eng-Tow to walk the jury through the process of downloading the phone. Eng-Tow says you put in the passcode, unlock the phone, connect it to Graykey (a little computer) and the data is then downloaded. It’s not readable and not accessible. You need forensic software to download it. You then use Cellebrite, which takes the extraction and parses the data into various types of files – photos, messages, etc.
10:51 a.m. Eng-Tow knows how to use Cellebrite, a program that pulls data from cell phones. He performed downloads on two iPhones in connection with this case. Eng-Tow is employed by the Department of Public Safety Bureau of Forensic Services.
10:47 a.m. Next witness is Cheney Eng-Tow. He is a digital laboratory technician. I did a story with Eng-Tow about his job a few years ago.
LIVE UPDATES | Day 4 of Kouri Richins murder trial - East Idaho News
Kouri Richins, a Utah mother of three boys, is accused of fatally poisoning her husband, Eric Richins, in 2022. She is on trial in Summit County, Utah, on charges of aggravated murder, attempted aggravated murder, insurance fraud and forgery. Today is the fourth day of the trial. It is scheduled...www.eastidahonews.com
Today is the fourth day of the trial. It is scheduled to begin each day at 8:30 a.m. East Idaho News will be posting live written updates all day. Please excuse typos. You can watch the livestream here. The most recent updates are at the top of this page.
1:57 p.m. We are taking a break until 2:10 p.m.
1:53 p.m. Judge Mrazik rules that just the table in the exhibit may come in through this witness. State will need to amend the exhibit.
1:50 p.m. Bloodworth says the issue can be solved if the Cellebrite heading is redacted from the top of the exhibit. Defense attorney Wendy Lewis says this is a Cellebrite report and should not be admitted because Cellebrite has not been introduced into the trial. Lewis is arguing with the judge and judge asks her to “please stay focused.”
1:47 p.m. Sidebar is over. Judge asks the jurors to take a break and asks Carmen to leave the courtroom so a legal issue can be discussed. Judge is talking about the exhibit Bloodworth hopes to admit. It contains text message content that was obtained through Cellebrite.
1:40 p.m. Defense objects. Says the Cellebrite extraction containing the text messages has not been entered into evidence and Carmen can not testify to it. Judge calls for sidebar.
1:38 p.m. After Eric died, Kouri asked Carmen if she still had the hook-up from her friend for drugs. Bloodworth asks to admit an exhibit showing a text exchange between Carmen and Kouri between March 6-7, 2022.
1:35 p.m. Carmen had never been to the Maverik in Draper other than the times to pick up the drugs. Carmen learned Eric had died a day or two after his death. She was with her friend Nick on their way to a urinalysis for drug court when she spoke with Kouri Richins on speaker phone. Nick could hear the conversation. Carmen said to Kouri, “Please tell me these pills were not for him.” Kouri said, “No, they were not. Eric passed away from a brain aneurysm.”
1:34 p.m. Bloodworth asks Carmen if she had ever purchased drugs from Robert before Eric died. She did not.
1:30 p.m. The pills were a lighter blue this time. Carmen texted Kouri and said she was on her way home. Carmen gave Nancy a few of the pills and reached out to Kouri to ask what she wanted her to do with them. Kouri is staring at Carmen in the courtroom. Kouri said she would come and pick up the pills. Kouri drove to Carmen’s house and picked up the pills.
1:28 p.m. Carmen texted Robert. He wrote her back and she told Kouri that she could get the drugs. Nancy took her again and they met at the same Maverik. Carmen texted Robert on the way down Provo Canyon to Maverik. She was also texting Kouri and giving her updates. All the texts were deleted. Carmen ultimately ended up at Maverik. She gave Robert the money, he left for 20-25 minutes, came back, gave her the baggie of pills and then they went their separate ways.
1:26 p.m. Kouri reached out to Carmen again and said her investor needed something stronger. Carmen responded that you can’t just order stuff off the street – you get what you get. Kouri asked for “the Michael Jackson stuff.” She wasn’t sure what Kouri meant and had to Google it. On the third drug buy, Kouri put around $1,000 cash in the little house in Midway. Carmen picked it up.
1:24 p.m. Bloodworth asks Carmen if she thought she could get away with more drug distribution and fake letters. She replies, “Not really,” but still tried. Bloodworth asks about her second drug deal with Robert Crozier. Carmen is wiping her eyes and nose. Bloodworth asks if she needs a minute. She says she is fine.
1:23 p.m. Carmen says she never did any community service on Kouri’s ranch. She submitted the letters to the court and got in trouble. She ended up in jail, with more community service ordered. When asked why she did it, Carmen says she didn’t have time to do her community service because she was busy picking up pills.
1:18 p.m. We now see a photo of the backyard of the home and the fire pit where Carmen put the pills. She clarifies there was not a fire burning at the time. Bloodworth moves to admit two letters. They are Community Service Letters. Carmen was late for group therapy sessions and the court ordered her to serve ten hours of community service. Carmen approached Kouri asking if she knew of anywhere she could get a letter saying she did community service. Kouri wrote two letters saying Carmen did community service at their ranch.
1:16 p.m. There were 15-20 light green pills in the baggie. Carmen and Nancy left. On the way, Carmen texted Kouri and asked her what to do with the pills. Kouri told her to take them to the Midway house and put them in one of the sheds. Carmen didn’t feel comfortable pulling them in a shed so she dug a hole in the fire pit, put them in the dirt and covered them up.
1:15 p.m. Carmen was texting with Robert on the way asking about ETA. She was also texting Kouri and keeping her update. Once Carmen got to Maverik, they texted each other about what type of vehicles they were in. Once she arrived, he came up to the window, picked up the money, and the left for 20-25 minutes. He came back with a “little clear baggie” that had round pills inside.
1:11 p.m. Bloodworth moves to admit three photos into evidence. No objection from defense. Judge allows the pictures in. The first one is Carmen in Nancy’s car with Carmen’s dog in the background. The other two photos are of Carmen and Nancy in her car. They are on the way to meet up with Robert Crozier at the Draper Maverik.
1:10 p.m. Bloodworth moves to admit some photos from Carmen’s phone. Defense objects and says they are from the Cellebrite extraction and witnesses can’t testify about Cellebrite. Judge calls for sidebar with attorneys.
1:08 p.m. We see an image of a small house in Midway where Kouri put the $1,000. Kouri told her the back door was unlocked. The money was in a box in a closet with some coffee cups. Carmen picked up the money and called Robert. A woman named Nancy Peterson drove Carmen to Maverik in Draper as Carmen did not have a car.
1:05 p.m. Robert asked Carmen to meet him at a Maverik gas station in Draper, Utah. Bloodworth asks Carmen if she has text messages between her and Robert. She deleted them. She deleted all her messages because she was worried if anyone saw them, she would get in trouble. Carmen agreed to meet Robert at Maverik. The fentanyl would cost $1,000. Kouri told Carmen the money would be at the Midway house.
1:04 p.m. Carmen’s friend put her in touch with Robert Crozier. She asked if he knew of anyone with strong painkillers for sale. He said he would check. Robert called her back and said he had someone who could give her fentanyl pills. Carmen told Kouri that she had a friend with access to fentanyl. Kouri told her to get them. Carmen reached out to Crozier and told him to get the pills.
1 p.m. Carmen reached out to a friend on Facebook Messenger to see if she might have access to drugs. We see messages on the screen that Carmen sent to her friend. It says, “Text me. I’ve got a question I can’t say on here.” It was sent on Feb. 5, 2022. She sent the message because she was going to ask her friend if she knew anybody who had any pills.
12:58 p.m. Kouri gave Carmen $600 for the pills. Bloodworth asks about the text messages between Kouri and Carmen. She says she deleted all the messages because she could get in trouble with drug court if anyone saw the messages that she was participating in selling drugs. The second time Carmen purchased drugs was from Robert Crozier. Kouri messaged and said her investor needed something stronger.
12:54 p.m. Kouri first asked Carmen about getting drugs in early February 2022. Carmen gave Susan $600 for the drugs. She asked Susan for an opioid painkiller. Susan returned with a white envelope full of pills a few hours later. There were little brown pills. Carmen then texted Kouri that she had pills. Kouri drove to Carmen’s house the next morning and picked up the pills.
12:52 p.m. Kouri asked Carmen to buy illicit drugs for her four times. The First time was Susan Kohler. The other times were from Robert Crozier. The first time Kouri asked about drugs, she asked if Carmen could get some pain meds for an investor that she knew. Carmen knew Susan was using and Susan knew someone with pain meds. Carmen and Susan worked together over the years.
12:50 p.m. Carmen spoke with Kouri about her drug use. She told Kouri about drug court and when she was going to graduate. She went into drug court in late 2021. Carmen knew Eric Richins. He would come in and joke with her. Carmen went to their house for a birthday BBQ at one point. Carmen knew Eric owned a stonemasonry business. She did not know any of his employees.
12:48 p.m. Bloodworth asks Carmen if she met with her attorney to prepare for today. She has. She reviewed what she said in jail, some photos and data from cell phones. Bloodworth asks Carmen if she knew Kouri Richins. She did. She worked for Kouri’s aunt cleaning houses. She also cleaned Kouri’s home every other Friday. She worked for Kouri’s aunt for nine years and got to know Kouri throughout the years.
12:46 p.m. Carmen says at first it took a minute to process everything. She is emotional and wiping her eyes with a tissue. Carmen spoke with investigators before she had immunity and wanted immunity. Carmen did not consult with an attorney before meeting with investigators. She was in jail.
12:45 p.m. Carmen knew Eric had died but when investigators told her it was from an overdose, “that hit hard only for the fact that, if that’s what happened, I needed to step up and take accountability in my part in this and what I asked for.”
12:44 p.m. Carmen says investigators told her Eric had died and defense objects based on hearsay. Judge calls for a sidebar.
12:42 p.m. Carmen’s lawyer assisted her in getting the immunity and advised her about what she could lose if she does not tell the truth. Carmen interviewed with investigators 6-7 times before getting immunity. She spoke with investigators about 10-15 hours total.
12:41 p.m. Carmen is represented by a lawyer and is testifying under agreements of immunity from several agencies including Summit County. She has four grants of immunity because she has committed crimes in connection with this case in four jurisdictions, she says. She must tell the truth and if she does, charges will not be filed on her, she explains. She has to testify truthfully and fully.
12:39 p.m. Carmen is on probation through drug court. It’s a rehabilitation program under court supervision. Charges are also pending against Carmen for marijuana possession and possession of a gun. She says she is sober now and has been sober for over four years. It’s the longest time in her life since sixth grade that she has been sober.
12:37 p.m. Carmen works with people who have disabilities. She admits to using drugs – cocaine, acid, alcohol, from high school into adulthood. She has sold drugs and has a criminal history involving drugs. Drug possession and drug distribution. She is currently on probation for felony drug distribution. Prosecutor Brad Bloodworth is questioning her.
12:35 p.m. Back from lunch. Next witness is Carmen Lauber.
LIVE UPDATES | Day 4 of Kouri Richins murder trial - East Idaho News
Kouri Richins, a Utah mother of three boys, is accused of fatally poisoning her husband, Eric Richins, in 2022. She is on trial in Summit County, Utah, on charges of aggravated murder, attempted aggravated murder, insurance fraud and forgery. Today is the fourth day of the trial. It is scheduled...
www.eastidahonews.com
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all three defense attys competing to be the most obnoxious
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I was thinking they must be taking turns. Several days ago Nester, then Ramos, now its Lewis
BTW - Jury took a break.
We’re on to additional discussion right now.
Get caught up here Former Richins housekeeper, key witness Carmen Lauber takes stand in murder trial
We’re on to additional discussion right now.
Get caught up here Former Richins housekeeper, key witness Carmen Lauber takes stand in murder trial
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Defense doesn’t have much, their cross doesn’t seem to be effective, the judge isn’t siding with them. So curious about the jurors facial expressions, body language, etc. I think all the obnoxious is frustration. Emotions are getting the best of them. MOO
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I thought Ramos would be the one to cross examine Carmen, but maybe it will be Lewis???
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probably to avoid making her look too sympathetic to jurors, better to have a slight built female rather than a man to cross a weepy female. Lewis will seem meek and mild physically compared to Carmen and may be less off putting to jury. Because we all know gloves will be coming off for this cross.
Back in the courtroom. Judge reminds Carmen to speak clearly into the microphone. The text exchange is now displayed. One of the texts is from Kouri to Carmen, "Still have your hook up?" Carmen said she could reach out to Robert. She responded, "Ok." Kouri told Carmen that the investor would leave money under the doormat of Kouri's Kamas home so Carmen could pay for the drugs. Nick picked Carmen up and went to Kouri's house to pick up the cash. There was nothing under the doormats. Carmen rang the doorbell and Kouri told her to come inside. Carmen told her the money wasn't there and Kouri asked if she could write Carmen a check. Kouri then wrote her a check.
Bloodworth moves to admit the check Kouri wrote to Carmen. It's for $1,300 and was written on March 6, 2022. In the memo section it says, "construction clean Midway." Bloodworth asks Carmen if Kouri owed her any money for cleaning or anything else. She did not. "I never cleaned a house ever in my life for $1,300."
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Carmen went to the bank to deposit the check. Her account was in the negative. She deposited $300 and took out $1,000 cash. We see the receipt on the screen. Nick and Carmen then drove down Provo Canyon to pick up the drugs. She texted Robert but it was taking a while so she and Nick stopped at thrift stores. They eventually ended up at Maverik in Draper. They waited and Robert left for 20 minutes. He came back. He said his friend wasn't answering the door. They followed Robert down the road to a duplex. They waited and Carmen said she wanted to leave.
Bloodworth moves to admit the check Kouri wrote to Carmen. It's for $1,300 and was written on March 6, 2022. In the memo section it says, "construction clean Midway." Bloodworth asks Carmen if Kouri owed her any money for cleaning or anything else. She did not. "I never cleaned a house ever in my life for $1,300."
@NateNewsNow
Carmen went to the bank to deposit the check. Her account was in the negative. She deposited $300 and took out $1,000 cash. We see the receipt on the screen. Nick and Carmen then drove down Provo Canyon to pick up the drugs. She texted Robert but it was taking a while so she and Nick stopped at thrift stores. They eventually ended up at Maverik in Draper. They waited and Robert left for 20 minutes. He came back. He said his friend wasn't answering the door. They followed Robert down the road to a duplex. They waited and Carmen said she wanted to leave.
Robert came out of the townhouse with a baggie of round dark blue pills. Nick and Carmen left. He dropped Carmen off at her house. She texted Kouri and asked what she wanted Carmen to do with the pills. Kouri told her to take the pills to the Midway house. She put the pills in the closet.
Carmen has never done any other drug deals with Robert and has never been back to the Maverik in Draper. Robert hit her up later for drug deals and said his buddy had more if her friend wanted any. Carmen reached out to Kouri and said more was available if she needed any. "She said no, her investor had left town," Carmen says. Bloodworth has nothing further. Defense attorney Wendy Lewis will now question Carmen.
Lewis has large black binders that she gives to Carmen. They are transcripts of the interviews Carmen did with investigators. "Whoa, that's a lot," Carmen says. Lewis says that between April and May 2023, Carmen had seven interviews with the police. Correct. Lewis asks how many times she met with detectives after she got out of jail. "A couple." She isn't sure on the numbers because it was a while back.
Carmen always met with the detectives 3-4 times. Lewis asks if they would talk about her testimony. She says not about her testimony, but questions like where she was during certain times. Lewis asks if the conversations were recorded. Carmen isn't 100% sure. Lewis asks Carmen if the detectives drove her places. She says they sometimes drove her to court. Lewis asks if they had conversations in the car. Carmen says no.
Lewis asks if she has met with prosecutors over the past few weeks. Carmen has. Lewis asks if they practiced her testimony with her. She says they didn't really practice, but went over some questions. Lewis asks if they reviewed her answers with her. Carmen says they did. Lewis asks if the prosecutors corrected her if they thought her answer was wrong. "Not really, no," she says. Lewis asks if they practiced cross-examination with her. "They kind of just brought up how you were going to bring up my past, how I was going to feel."
Lewis asks if the prosecutors helped put together the pieces of her testimony. Carmen says she asked them for assistance. Lewis asks Carmen who else she has spoken to about her testimony in the case. "Nobody," she says. Carmen then says she spoke with two detectives and a lady from the feds while she was in jail.
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Carmen has never done any other drug deals with Robert and has never been back to the Maverik in Draper. Robert hit her up later for drug deals and said his buddy had more if her friend wanted any. Carmen reached out to Kouri and said more was available if she needed any. "She said no, her investor had left town," Carmen says. Bloodworth has nothing further. Defense attorney Wendy Lewis will now question Carmen.
Lewis has large black binders that she gives to Carmen. They are transcripts of the interviews Carmen did with investigators. "Whoa, that's a lot," Carmen says. Lewis says that between April and May 2023, Carmen had seven interviews with the police. Correct. Lewis asks how many times she met with detectives after she got out of jail. "A couple." She isn't sure on the numbers because it was a while back.
Carmen always met with the detectives 3-4 times. Lewis asks if they would talk about her testimony. She says not about her testimony, but questions like where she was during certain times. Lewis asks if the conversations were recorded. Carmen isn't 100% sure. Lewis asks Carmen if the detectives drove her places. She says they sometimes drove her to court. Lewis asks if they had conversations in the car. Carmen says no.
Lewis asks if she has met with prosecutors over the past few weeks. Carmen has. Lewis asks if they practiced her testimony with her. She says they didn't really practice, but went over some questions. Lewis asks if they reviewed her answers with her. Carmen says they did. Lewis asks if the prosecutors corrected her if they thought her answer was wrong. "Not really, no," she says. Lewis asks if they practiced cross-examination with her. "They kind of just brought up how you were going to bring up my past, how I was going to feel."
Lewis asks if the prosecutors helped put together the pieces of her testimony. Carmen says she asked them for assistance. Lewis asks Carmen who else she has spoken to about her testimony in the case. "Nobody," she says. Carmen then says she spoke with two detectives and a lady from the feds while she was in jail.
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Lewis is not coming off well before the jury IMO. She is coming across as a bully, small slight stature notwithstanding.
These are rude questions to ask a witness, Lewis. Desperate much?
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Yea the tone when was asking about mental health issues was something.
She’s making it obvious she needs to take down this witness vs questioning her for inconsistencies. IMO
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Carmen also spoke with her best friend Nick. Lewis asks if she told Nick, "I don't even remember. You're going to have to help me." Lewis asks Carmen if she has been diagnosed with any mental health problems. Carmen says no. "You sure?" She says, "Yes." Lewis brings up anxiety and asks if she takes any medication for it. She says she's not on anxiety medication.
4:34 PM · Feb 26, 2026
Carmen also spoke with her best friend Nick. Lewis asks if she told Nick, "I don't even remember. You're going to have to help me." Lewis asks Carmen if she has been diagnosed with any mental health problems. Carmen says no. "You sure?" She says, "Yes." Lewis brings up anxiety and asks if she takes any medication for it. She says she's not on anxiety medication.
4:34 PM · Feb 26, 2026
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Lewis has changed her tune a bit and now feigning sympathy o the hard time Carmen had with addictions and drug court.
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