UT UT - Macin Smith, 17, St George, 1 Sept 2015

[Ejay]

@the catmeows VPNs and things that go bump in the night
I agree with most everything you said you said. Prior to the age 18, in my mind, I had everything to hide. I think some (many) parents assume their kids are spending all that time online watching anime or playing games. That is a very false general assumption. "There he is again on the computer watching videos or gaming" - I can't tell you how many times I heard that growing up. Thing is, for perhaps 85 percent of the time, I was NOT watching anime or gaming. It may have looked like or assumed that I was gaming however, in reality, that was/is my primary way to communicate with online friends in a way that the average person probably did not/does not even know exists or if so, to the degree of how big the platform really is.

For me (and I am far from alone on this), it all started out as "for gaming", but at age 13 or so I soon realized what an excellent real-time messaging/communication/meeting new people thing was at my fingertips. (And people wonder why young people don't use things like FB anymore). And it's so easy to communicate every day, day-after-day, and from anywhere, with friends met online. After a few months, a year, or whatever, absolute super strong bonds can and do develop. And if by chance someone happens to be the type of person that does not have desire or has difficulty or chooses not having many real life friends for one reason or another, well there ya' go.

I have nothing to hide either however, the more I got into the internet world, the more I saw just how easy it really is to get info and data on people (hence some of my research on this case). There simply is no sound reason through my eyes not to be as secure and/or anonymous as I can be. And part of that belief may because of something my dad once told me regarding the internet. He said, "The barbarians are always at the gate". But even if someone can find a way to hack a burner account of mine - no worries, I have others...

One more "theory" relating to my research on this case and I will say only that, as time goes on, perhaps his parents (speculation again) could even be somewhat relieved or maybe even have vested interest that Macin has not surfaced.

Now, why would I make such a seemingly cruel statement?

Because, as long as Macin is not telling his side of the of the past which led up to him to doing what he did, the family and church save face and are protected. Imagine for a moment if he suddenly surfaced as a 21-year-old adult and then told his story, which I suspect would night-and-day differ from the parents story. And most certainly that story would hold more weight by the court-of-public-opinion than if told by the persona of a "screwed up" 17-year-old kid. (I don't think he was screwed up at all btw). And I also do not think that he is "worried" in the least of being embarrassed if the note he left or, anything for that matter was made public. I think he actually assumed that note would be made public.

At the end of the day, perhaps his parents don't realize how much he maybe really loves them and is showing that to them by NOT coming forward and telling his story, a story which just maybe, could cause the entire thing to come crashing down on both the parents and the church. Just a thought...

 

[Bethan]

Ekaterinburg, thank you for your informative posts, sharing your knowledge & experience of the gaming community.

Sounds like there is a whole ‘world’ out their that us, the older generation have no concept of!

( Computers were only just being developed when I growing up.
As a very small child, I have vague memories of my Dad once proudly taking me to see one at his university & it filled a small room!
For many years his filing system at work, consisted of cards with punch holes & using knitting needles. In contrast, when in his late eighties, he had his first iPad & loved it!)

(Sorry off topic!)

What I’m trying to say...the information you give is useful & informative for today’s parents.

It also gives me ( just a little bit of) hope that Macin may be alive & well.

 

[DarkDefender67]

I recently found out about Macin on the show “Disappeared” and it baffles me how he walked out of the house and was never seen again.

 

[Ejay]

Smart advance planning no doubt. And a good network.

 

[BethAnn777]

Did anyone listen the video Macin’s uncle posted on YouTube? I can’t link it because it isn’t MSM, but if you search, you will find it.

My biggest takeaways:
1. Macin had mental health issues.
2. Macin had been institutionalized for these issues.
3. Macin told his mom he had suicidal thoughts.
4. Macin left a note that led them to believe he commited suicide.
5. Macin had horrible social anxiety and depression. The parents have been blamed for taking away his means of communicating with the outside world (phone, computer). I have a high school son with social anxiety/depression. I don’t limit his phone use. My belief is that if he wants to stay up late chatting with a friend or watching a movie, that means he is feeling good. Sometimes he comes home from school and takes a nap because he didn’t get enough sleep the night before. He doesn’t do this every night, if he did I might have to impose restrictions. However, if something happened to him I would be blamed for being the exact opposite of Macin’s parents. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.

Sadly, I do think Macin commited suicide. He was anxious and depressed. I suffer from both. I can tell you that when you feel low, suicide seems like the best way out. When you are depressed you can’t escape yourself. Running away solves nothing- you can’t escape yourself. Starting a new life somewhere else solves nothing- you can’t escape yourself.

I hope Macin is at peace wherever he may be.

 

[Ejay]

BethAnn777, your point number 5 really struck a chord with me. I want to say that your stand on not limiting your son's phone etc. use is exactly how I would handle it if I had a teen-age son in a like situation. Taking away something a person desires really only makes them desire it more in my opinion, and maybe to almost an obsession. Your son is fortunate to have a forward-thinking parent such as you.

On your other points, Macin certainly had mental health issues however I mean that in the sense that everyone does in one way or another I think. It's true he spent one week in a hospital and that week was spent there because he did tell his mom he had suicidal thoughts. Growing up, I am sure I told my parents on more than on occasion that I wished I was dead. I am certain that could be taken a number of ways depending on who heard that at the times I said that. Looking back, I am pretty sure (and not proud) that I used that as a manipulative tactic to get my way. "Feel sorry for me, ease up on me, and ultimately I get my way, or most of it". Because really, I am pretty good with follow through. If I really meant all that, I would not be writing here now, and certainly would not have written a suicide note, and then bury it where it would be difficult to find. In my anger with parents, life or whatever, I would have no doubt pinned that baby on the fridge or something on my way out the door.

I truly think that when Macin's parent's heard his initial disclosure two years prior, they took the quick and easy way out-let the hospital fix him in a week, which seems to be a relatively short period of time in the grand scheme of things if it was really that dire. And I say that because there was no additional information in the few years after that - no mention of any other episodes or reports of him getting any additional ongoing professional help for anxiety, depression or suicidal thoughts. Maybe there were treatment efforts, however I saw nothing in my research about that. Of course the parents would not be expected to publicly reveal every detail of his life, but if they are painting a picture that he was suicidal, seems like mentions of ongoing professional help would be appropriate to disclose.

As I have stated before, as much as I try to reason that he killed himself, the facts as presented just don't add up for me. Looking at only what was presented certainly could make one come to the conclusion that he committed suicide. But in more detail, here is why I still do not think so.

1. The general public underestimates, perhaps for lack of knowledge, online friendships and the gaming community on a deep level. I'm not talking Facebook, Instagram or other social media people you meet as friends or those casual "friendships". A person that becomes a "friend" because they agree with your posts or happen to give you a "like" here and there. Or "friends" because they have a commonality of views in president or celebrity bashing, stand on guns, save the whales or whatever.

The type I am talking about develop off the normal grid so to speak. Imagine if you chatted with a person(s) every day or night (when your parents thought you were "watching anime"), over a period or months or years, (or Macin's case, since he was like 14 with his first computer or Xbox). Over time, trust would build and you would learn some intimate details about someone as they would learn about you, details that even your best real life friends may not know. Why? Because with online friendships, starting out, it's "safe". It's easy to hit delete and that online person is gone forever. I personally have done that many, many times when I felt something was off with someone.

But close online friendships can and do develop over time-how could they not- talking to someone more than you even talk to your best real life friends. What may start out as a common ground of gaming or a maybe particular anime series, over time, can grow into very strong bonds of friendship-stronger than real life friend bonds even. And there is usually little pressure-you don't have to worry about saying the wrong thing; there are no outside family influences on that friendship either, so it's quite easy to really pour out as trust builds and the online friendship develops.

Macin was on line every opportunity he could get for years. On the surface, it may look like he had no or few "friends" however thinking that is very faulty logic. There is just no way he would not have gotten to know some (many) people very well from the online gaming network, and befriended some of them over a period of time. If/by the time you "happen" to meet them in real life, it's like getting together with an old friend you totally trust. Yes, bad thing can happen and there are people out there that stalk online looking for prey-and that's the stories we tend to hear about because that's what the news media lives for-a good negative story. You never hear about the other ones that develop into positive outcomes. Macin had friends, just friends his family did not know about.

2. The Note: Oh that note. There is only one thing anyone (other than the parent(s) know for sure is two words that they shared with the public- "I'm Done". Parents never came out and said it was a suicide note did they? They used vague terms like "...looked like he had intent to harm himself..." What was so difficult to interpret? And if it WAS a suicide message, why not just come out and say that? Well, maybe because it was not a "suicide" note at all? Since nothing more has been revealed (and I am not saying it should be), it would be easy to connect dots that the majority of the content of the pages of the note dealt with the parents lack (or refusing) to listen.

Maybe it just a note written by a fed up angry person, that felt hopeless in his current situation with parents that were way too busy, or were strongly pushing certain beliefs, or refused to really hear what their son had been trying to tell them since the last time he did the dry-run- 2 years prior. I mean he even foreshadowed that by telling his mother and others in the past of where he would go if/when he did run away. Maybe he just lashed out on them in the note, then hid it as well so he had the opportunity to get far away before they found it and came looking. Only this time, he was prepared to execute his plan.

He wiped the computer history clean like an hour before dad stormed into the room that night. I can't get my head around why a person truly intent on killing themselves would to do that. After all, why would it even matter what was on the computer if that was the goal. And again, why hide a "suicide" note (to be found a WEEK later) anyway, unless maybe it was not the type of note the parents proclaim. (However saying "intent to harm himself" would be a nifty way to package it all up when telling the public I suppose).

September 1 was his "day", a day chosen way in advance, regardless of whether that computer and phone was taken away the night before or not. I believe the taking away of the electronics was the catalyst for the angry and lengthy note that night. And when he wiped out the computer history, which he did PRIOR to writing the note, he was also "done" with that computer too. He did not know that computer was going to be taken away when he wiped the history the hour or so prior. This shows that he had no intent to take it with him when he left. The wiping of the computer was just one of the final parts of the plan.Weeks, months of planning was going to be executed on September 1-no turning back.

I will say it again, and of course only my opinion based on everything I have researched on this case. Macin knew when he left that day, he was not coming back-He "was done". Mother said he had a pretty "detailed plan" two years ago when he told mom and a second person about it. He also said at the time, he would NOT tell them when he would do it. Over the next two years, he had lots of time to finalize the plan, stash money, establish a new identify, friends (unconnected to the family situation), and a network. And when there is not a lot of history of a person on the internet (his age) to begin with, all the easier to disappear for good. Cover tracks and keep it all a secret so they don't see it coming until it's done. He has no desire to be found and has erased his past life.

Until they find a body, the facts as have been presented to the public when all put together and looked at in detail, with knowledge on workings of the greater gaming community/network, it just does not point to suicide, at least not to me.

 

[BethAnn777]

Ejay- another great post from you. I absolutely agree with you and feel like him not having committed suicide is also possible.

I am a pessimist by nature (maybe due to my depression and anxiety) so I usually tend to assume “the worst”. I don’t have statistics, although I may go looking for them now, but statistically speaking if a person disappears they likely are deceased vs. having started a new life.

I waffle back and forth on my thoughts, but mainly do believe he committed suicide.

 

[Ejay]

Thanks BethAnn777 for the kind comments.

This case really became interesting to me because so many things started to not add up in addition to the obvious contradictions in statements I began to notice over the time line.

I am perhaps the "odd" one here. When I research a topic that interests me, my emotions never enter into the picture. Instead, I tend to focus exclusively on the facts as they are presented, and use logic in coming to a conclusion on something. (Guess I should have studied to be an attorney when I started university instead of basket weaving). jk

With 40 some extensive searches over time involving hundreds of people, If Macin is dead, he was darn good at hiding his body. And if that was the outcome, hopefully he is in a better place.
If he is alive, I have to believe he is ok with his new life because he has not coming running home and is doing just fine, at least through his eyes. (And if I had to place a bet, I still would bet on latter).

One thing very clear to me, is that the situation-the family dynamic and such over time leading up to the incident, was in reality, not quite as neat and tidy as may have been presented to the public. And what do they say about the absence of truth...

 

[scriabina]

I don't know Macin's family or anything about his family life before his disappearance. By all appearances and interviews they appeared to be a loving family, but at the same time perhaps they were at a loss re: how to deal with a son with mental illness. Maybe the mom, having her own issues with depression and anxiety, wasn't able to be the support system that Macin needed. And maybe his dad was a strict father who lacked the knowledge and tools to balance disciplining his son in the face of mental health challenges.

I can see how this would upset any teenager in Macin's position, and maybe even cause him to run away, but I can't imagine staying silent and letting his parents suffer and agonize over his disappearance for four long years. That is terribly, terribly cruel, and no parent deserves that unless there was overt abuse or imminent danger. MOO.

I think the parents were trying their best to be good parents. They weren't perfect but I feel they had good intentions. Perhaps they had a different perspective and different lifestyle preferences that didn't jive with Macin's -- I don't know. Regardless, I feel his parents care(d) about him and love(d) him, and if Macin is alive today I hope he will have some empathy for them and let them know he is okay. If he felt they lacked empathy for him, all the more reason to teach them a lesson in compassion, forgiveness, and empathy, so that they can improve as human beings and perhaps one day even repair their relationship with Macin. Or if he doesn't want a relationship with them ever again, fine, but at least reach out *once* to give them closure and a sliver of peace.

His parents are victims too. I feel terrible for them.

While I'd love for Macin to be alive, sadly, I don't believe he is.

 

[Ejay]

Great thoughts scriabina. As I said in one of my earliest posts, "I can't begin to imagine the emotional things parents go through having this happen to their offspring." No way anyone could unless they lived through it. And I only partially blame the parents for the outcome as the signs were there and they chose for what ever reason not to act on the signs over a two or more year period. I personally put at least equal blame on the church, again not just the LDS but any organized religion (like the religion I was forced to live through the first 17 years of my life). Maybe they thought all during the time, the church would "fix" him- didn't need professional ongoing help- perhaps the elder with the direct-line knows all and could fix all. I mean, there are people that turn all their "problems" over to the 'church'. I guess you can't totally fault people for doing that.

And then some blame has to go on Macin himself. It appears he had it set in his mind that only he could make the changes he desired, and perhaps did not want their help anyway. He was extremely strong minded which is evident in some of his quoted statements that he made to mom and others: "I'm 6 foot 4 and you're gonna tell me what I can't do"?

When fight or flight kicks in, and when some people decide on flight as the answer, they want to cut all bonds of the previous life, not considering empathy and the like. For some, any reminder of the past brings back painful feelings they want to totally forget. For them, The chapter of the old life is closed for good. If that is necessary for a person to do in their mind, I am not certain I can call it cruel, maybe just an attempt of mental survival of burying the past. Even a dog when it was beat through its puppy years will still cringe years later when approached. Extreme bad emotional memories (or perceived to be in a person's mind) probably work in a like manner.

And certainly no parent deserves the lack of closure, but let me tell you, kids learn from adults and adults do the same thing to each other.

Who does not know of a situation in their own circle of a mother and daughter, brother and sister, father and son, that for usually some stupid reason get in a huff, estranged, and don't talk, absolutely no contact with each other for say 20 years. It happens all the time. Is this situation really much different except that it involved a teen?

And young minds do learn the habits of the adults...

 

[cybervampira]

Exclusive: Macin Smith's mom speaks of challenges of facing missing son's 21st birthday | Gephardt Daily

Turning 21 is the biggest milestone in any young person’s life; the day when a teen becomes an adult, and a boy starts to decide how his life might unfold now he’s a man.

But for Macin Smith’s family, heartbreakingly, that is a transition that they might never get to see, as they face the 21st anniversary of his birth Sunday.

[...]

“How do I express my feelings regarding my boy’s birthday that literally defines the rite of passage into adulthood,” she said. “I can still only imagine him as that 17-year-old kid that was so unsure of learning to drive and had the lofty goal of being the next Benjamin Burnley. My heart continues to ache for my lost son.”

Burnley, she adds, is the founder and frontman of Macin’s favorite band, Breaking Benjamin.

Bratt-Smith said she will be visiting a bench that was recently made to honor Macin and placed in the newly built Crimson Ridge Park on 3000 East.

The custom-made bench is inscribed with the words “Never Give Up; Never Surrender.”

[...]

The latest information about Macin is posted on a Facebook page dedicated to finding the young man; for more information click here. Anyone with information about Macin is asked to call the St. George Police Department at 435-627-4300.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Sounds like Macin had a lot going on, and maybe not living within a community open to his ideas and needs. I don’t know that, just speculating. Kudos to them for all helping relentlessly with the searches.

If he is LDS, could he have disappeared to avoid going on a mission? Can you imagine someone with social anxiety trying to navigate that?!

Amateur opinion and speculation only

 

[Cagle]

https://ksltv.com/414218/police-focused-missing-utah-teen-case-on-parents/

This is a LONG article - below is a snipped section:

Officially, St. George police say the case is still considered an “active missing persons investigation.”

But while police are exploring the possibility that Macin ran away from home, court documents indicate that detectives have also been exploring the possibility that Macin was murdered.

The Deseret News and KSL have collected and reviewed nearly a dozen search warrant affidavits filed by St. George police in 7th District Court over the past couple of years regarding the Macin Smith investigation. Several of the warrants state that police are collecting evidence to investigate “the crime or crimes of criminal homicide.”

Some of the warrants openly raise questions about the actions and statements from Macin’s parents — including allegations that Macin’s parents never called detectives for updates about the case, that they didn’t participate in searches for their son and made inconsistent statements.

“Throughout the investigation there have been discrepancies between what Macin’s parents, Tracey and Darrin Smith, have told the St. George Police Department, Red Rock Search and Rescue and the media. These discrepancies all point to the fact Tracey and Darrin know more information surrounding Macin’s disappearance then they have disclosed,” police wrote in an affidavit dated June 21, 2017.

Investigators were concerned enough about the parents’ alleged inconsistent statements that they placed a GPS tracker on Darrin Smith’s pickup truck for at least 60-days — and possibly longer — to monitor his movements, according to an affidavit originally filed in March of 2017, but it did not become public until last month in an effort to preserve the integrity of the investigation.

Smith told the Deseret News and KSL Wednesday that he did not know he had been monitored by police. But he said he welcomed the scrutiny because he believes it will clear his name.

“I’m actually glad that they did put that on my vehicle, because I’ve got nothing to hide,” he said.

Tracey Smith concurred that she was unaware of the GPS monitor until this week.

“I guess nothing surprises me at this point. I’m not opposed to any of that,” she said Wednesday. “The sooner they would investigate us, the sooner they could move on and hopefully find a trail to where Macin is. Am I shocked? I don’t think I’m shocked at anything anymore. I think it was necessary. And if that’s what it took to rule Darrin out, I welcome it. Obviously nothing came of it.”

The warrant was approved just before a nationally televised program on the Investigation Discovery network about Macin’s disappearance aired.

 

[Criminal Justice mom]

https://ksltv.com/414218/police-focused-missing-utah-teen-case-on-parents/

This is a LONG article - below is a snipped section:

Officially, St. George police say the case is still considered an “active missing persons investigation.”

But while police are exploring the possibility that Macin ran away from home, court documents indicate that detectives have also been exploring the possibility that Macin was murdered.

The Deseret News and KSL have collected and reviewed nearly a dozen search warrant affidavits filed by St. George police in 7th District Court over the past couple of years regarding the Macin Smith investigation. Several of the warrants state that police are collecting evidence to investigate “the crime or crimes of criminal homicide.”

Some of the warrants openly raise questions about the actions and statements from Macin’s parents — including allegations that Macin’s parents never called detectives for updates about the case, that they didn’t participate in searches for their son and made inconsistent statements.

“Throughout the investigation there have been discrepancies between what Macin’s parents, Tracey and Darrin Smith, have told the St. George Police Department, Red Rock Search and Rescue and the media. These discrepancies all point to the fact Tracey and Darrin know more information surrounding Macin’s disappearance then they have disclosed,” police wrote in an affidavit dated June 21, 2017.

Investigators were concerned enough about the parents’ alleged inconsistent statements that they placed a GPS tracker on Darrin Smith’s pickup truck for at least 60-days — and possibly longer — to monitor his movements, according to an affidavit originally filed in March of 2017, but it did not become public until last month in an effort to preserve the integrity of the investigation.

Smith told the Deseret News and KSL Wednesday that he did not know he had been monitored by police. But he said he welcomed the scrutiny because he believes it will clear his name.

“I’m actually glad that they did put that on my vehicle, because I’ve got nothing to hide,” he said.

Tracey Smith concurred that she was unaware of the GPS monitor until this week.

“I guess nothing surprises me at this point. I’m not opposed to any of that,” she said Wednesday. “The sooner they would investigate us, the sooner they could move on and hopefully find a trail to where Macin is. Am I shocked? I don’t think I’m shocked at anything anymore. I think it was necessary. And if that’s what it took to rule Darrin out, I welcome it. Obviously nothing came of it.”

The warrant was approved just before a nationally televised program on the Investigation Discovery network about Macin’s disappearance aired.

Wow!

 

[cocomod]

https://ksltv.com/414218/police-focused-missing-utah-teen-case-on-parents/

This is a LONG article - below is a snipped section:

...

Wow!!

If we were using the old :thud:

After being here this long, I didn't think I could be surprised easily, but this one surprises me. Can you imagine if it is his parents?!!!

 

[insearchoflight]

Glad to see them moving in this direction.

 

[scriabina]

Do the police know the contents of the note he left? Is that what they could be referring to when they said that the parents know more than they are sharing?

 

[Sulamith]

https://ksltv.com/414218/police-focused-missing-utah-teen-case-on-parents/

This is a LONG article - below is a snipped section:

Officially, St. George police say the case is still considered an “active missing persons investigation.”

But while police are exploring the possibility that Macin ran away from home, court documents indicate that detectives have also been exploring the possibility that Macin was murdered.

The Deseret News and KSL have collected and reviewed nearly a dozen search warrant affidavits filed by St. George police in 7th District Court over the past couple of years regarding the Macin Smith investigation. Several of the warrants state that police are collecting evidence to investigate “the crime or crimes of criminal homicide.”

Some of the warrants openly raise questions about the actions and statements from Macin’s parents — including allegations that Macin’s parents never called detectives for updates about the case, that they didn’t participate in searches for their son and made inconsistent statements.

“Throughout the investigation there have been discrepancies between what Macin’s parents, Tracey and Darrin Smith, have told the St. George Police Department, Red Rock Search and Rescue and the media. These discrepancies all point to the fact Tracey and Darrin know more information surrounding Macin’s disappearance then they have disclosed,” police wrote in an affidavit dated June 21, 2017.

Investigators were concerned enough about the parents’ alleged inconsistent statements that they placed a GPS tracker on Darrin Smith’s pickup truck for at least 60-days — and possibly longer — to monitor his movements, according to an affidavit originally filed in March of 2017, but it did not become public until last month in an effort to preserve the integrity of the investigation.

Smith told the Deseret News and KSL Wednesday that he did not know he had been monitored by police. But he said he welcomed the scrutiny because he believes it will clear his name.

“I’m actually glad that they did put that on my vehicle, because I’ve got nothing to hide,” he said.

Tracey Smith concurred that she was unaware of the GPS monitor until this week.

“I guess nothing surprises me at this point. I’m not opposed to any of that,” she said Wednesday. “The sooner they would investigate us, the sooner they could move on and hopefully find a trail to where Macin is. Am I shocked? I don’t think I’m shocked at anything anymore. I think it was necessary. And if that’s what it took to rule Darrin out, I welcome it. Obviously nothing came of it.”

The warrant was approved just before a nationally televised program on the Investigation Discovery network about Macin’s disappearance aired.

Oh my! Macin's case took an unexpected turn after all these years. MOO

 

[cnmccarthy]

Oh my! Macin's case took an unexpected turn after all these years. MOO

Wow!!

 

[xxbreak]

Hey guys. This article is all old news from the investigation and warrants years ago just becoming public. Just a FYI. And Tracey indeed did check with detectives often, we verified this with emails and texts in her iCloud account as this was released. I don’t personally see why Tracey and Darrin should have to relive this part of their son missing. They gladly welcomed this avenue immediately upon his disappearance because it meant they could eliminate them and move on to locating Macin. Important to note the article is in the past tense. All avenues are still open, but there was and is no evidence pointing to the parents. I could go on and on and on about this if needed.