UT -- Ruby Murray, 18 months old, parents Mitchell and Carrie Murray arrested for murder and child abuse, March 19, 2025/Related to Chad Daybell

[AhoyStarbuck]

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You're right. This is next level abuse. Punishing her apparently for being alive.

JMO

Thank y'all!

@Megnut Right? I feel like there may be some parallels with the Shanda Vanderark case.

Law enforcement are mandatory reporters so finding Ruby would automatically trigger a call to Utah's DCSF/CPS and as concerning to LE as finding an 18 month old beautiful little girl deceased would be there's another child in the home.

Yet we all know that calling in CPS is real dicey if you expect them to be there protecting child/ren from harm.

imo


Not getting to positive on the parents

Unpopular perspective here, but having worked in child welfare in another state, investigators are often tied by lack of parent cooperation and family court decisions. We likely won't know more about LM unless family members come out.

I do have a suspicion (based on the well child visits) that DCFS may have been involved with the Murrays at one point for failure to thrive when Ruby was between 12 months and 15 months. That being said, I think Utah DCFS should release a CAPTA statement concerning Ruby, but I'm not sure how things work up there. It sounds like the full autopsy report with the finding that Ruby died of dehydration/undernutrition was released just prior to the parents being taken into custody, so we might see that statement soon.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Thank y'all!

@Megnut Right? I feel like there may be some parallels with the Shanda Vanderark case.



Unpopular perspective here, but having worked in child welfare in another state, investigators are often tied by lack of parent cooperation and family court decisions. We likely won't know more about LM unless family members come out.

I do have a suspicion (based on the well child visits) that DCFS may have been involved with the Murrays at one point for failure to thrive when Ruby was between 12 months and 15 months. That being said, I think Utah DCFS should release a CAPTA statement concerning Ruby, but I'm not sure how things work up there. It sounds like the full autopsy report with the finding that Ruby died of dehydration/undernutrition was released just prior to the parents being taken into custody, so we might see that statement soon.

I've seen CPS statements that said due to confidentiality etc. we have no comment. (paraphrasing)
We may have to wait until pre-trial motions for CPS to be brought up.
There is also the possibility that for all sorts of reasons a social worker is or becomes intimidated by the parent(s) they're interviewing/investigating to the detriment of the child/ren they are assigned to protect.

IIRC: From other cases where severe abuse or death of a child/ren took place, for instance the torturous death of Kahleb Collins and his sister Ryleigh's death in a car accident some information was released but not by LE that there had been CPS involvement with the family and that the now jailed grandfather who had been given guardianship by the courts after the local pastor had guardianship.
No details of the alleged abuse by the parents/grandfather were made public and the records remained sealed to protect the children's privacy.

The last I read was that the deceased children KC & RC's grandfather Bailey petitioned the court to have the CPS records unsealed, I gather he thinks there's info contained on the parents that would somehow prove his innocence.

I can't fathom that for almost 9 months when a toddler dies under suspicious circumstances and another minor child resides in the home that CM & MM could have been given free range once again with a child and without any oversight.

Next comes CPS investigating whomever is trying to get legal guardianship for LM.


I could see Ruby's doctor calling CPS if Ruby hadn't put on a bit of weight after she was diagnosed as being underweight and undernourished and we don't know if that was her last medical check-up before March 19, 2025.
It was weight that she lost by the time she died.

IMO

 

[Queen of the Winter Night]

I wish we could throw stale waffles at them.

 

[knitting]

I think it was an addiction too, to screens, basically. I'm thinking of the dad in AZ who gamed on the computer, iirc, while his daughter died in the car parked outside and the dad (also in AZ?) who was watching a sports event while his son drowned in the backyard pool.

I know it's not just a dad thing, but part of me wonders if some men downplay how much time, effort, and "presence" need to go into taking care of babies. "Crib time" alone in a room is not a thing.

I also know the mom in this situation had to have known what was going on, so I'm not excusing either of them for the way little Ruby was treated.

jmopinion

One thing that has been bothering me is the mom's timeline. Nurses that work day shift at the hospital CM works at work 5-5:30 PM typically. So she would be home sometime in the evening after working. She said she worked on 3/17 and 3/18. The last time she saw Ruby alive was reported by her to be about 3 AM on 3/17. If true, that means CM didn't check on her after work on 3/17, before work on 3/18, or after work on 3/18. I assume she didn't work on 3/19, because she found Ruby dead sometime that morning. You just go about your life for over 48 hours and don't even peek at your daughter at any point? Including on the baby monitor.

Cache County couple arrested for investigation of murder in neglect case of toddler

A Utah couple has been arrested for allegedly neglecting their 18-month-old daughter who police say died from malnutrition and dehydration.

www.ksl.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

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[AhoyStarbuck]

I've seen CPS statements that said due to confidentiality etc. we have no comment. (paraphrasing)
We may have to wait until pre-trial motions for CPS to be brought up.
There is also the possibility that for all sorts of reasons a social worker is or becomes intimidated by the parent(s) they're interviewing/investigating to the detriment of the child/ren they are assigned to protect.

IIRC: From other cases where severe abuse or death of a child/ren took place, for instance the torturous death of Kahleb Collins and his sister Ryleigh's death in a car accident some information was released but not by LE that there had been CPS involvement with the family and that the now jailed grandfather who had been given guardianship by the courts after the local pastor had guardianship.
No details of the alleged abuse by the parents/grandfather were made public and the records remained sealed to protect the children's privacy.

The last I read was that the deceased children KC & RC's grandfather Bailey petitioned the court to have the CPS records unsealed, I gather he thinks there's info contained on the parents that would somehow prove his innocence.

I can't fathom that for almost 9 months when a toddler dies under suspicious circumstances and another minor child resides in the home that CM & MM could have been given free range once again with a child and without any oversight.

Next comes CPS investigating whomever is trying to get legal guardianship for LM.


I could see Ruby's doctor calling CPS if Ruby hadn't put on a bit of weight after she was diagnosed as being underweight and undernourished and we don't know if that was her last medical check-up before March 19, 2025.
It was weight that she lost by the time she died.

IMO

The CAPTA provision would be triggered for this case, meaning that DCFS would have to release a comment (if the public asks) since this is now officially a case of a child fatality due to child abuse/neglect. It won't release anything about LM, though, and I wonder if we'd even learn more through motions, tbh.

With the Collins case, I'm kind of surprised CPS denied comment because I would have thought Ryleigh's death would have triggered the provision. Given more recent articles, though, I think one is coming for that case, especially once Kahleb is officially identified.

As for LM, I don't know enough about Utah, but I've seen judges make some questionable decisions in regard to removals.

The reason I suspect DCFS involvement is from this quote from this article:

A review of the child’s medical records showed a consistently below-average weight and recommendations to improve the child’s nutritional intake. Though her weight did increase between her 12-month checkup and two follow-up appointments, the child’s weight decreased by the time of her death.
Her weight was in the fifth percentile of children her age, according to the affidavit.

Total speculation, ofc, but there was obviously some outside factor that was mitigating their neglect/abuse. I'd like to know if Ruby was seen for a 15-month check up or if there were just two follow-ups.

One thing that has been bothering me is the mom's timeline. Nurses that work day shift at the hospital CM works at work 5-5:30 PM typically. So she would be home sometime in the evening after working. She said she worked on 3/17 and 3/18. The last time she saw Ruby alive was reported by her to be about 3 AM on 3/17. If true, that means CM didn't check on her after work on 3/17, before work on 3/18, or after work on 3/18. I assume she didn't work on 3/19, because she found Ruby dead sometime that morning. You just go about your life for over 48 hours and don't even peek at your daughter at any point? Including on the baby monitor.

Cache County couple arrested for investigation of murder in neglect case of toddler

A Utah couple has been arrested for allegedly neglecting their 18-month-old daughter who police say died from malnutrition and dehydration.

www.ksl.com

To be fair, it's not her timeline, it's from the baby monitor cams they had up. My question is when was the heater set up and Ruby put into the warm pajamas?

 

[AhoyStarbuck]

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Not a Mormon, so I could be wrong about this, but doesn't everyone have to go on a mission at 18?

 

[iamshadow21]

Not a Mormon, so I could be wrong about this, but doesn't everyone have to go on a mission at 18?

Plenty do, but not everyone does. It's expected, but not compulsory. There are many reasons to not, or not complete one. Someone I knew came home only a few months in because his father died. Another didn't get through the training because he had undiagnosed autism.

Neither of my brothers served. One, because he was also undiagnosed autistic (the parents of that other person gave mum a heads up!), and the other because he was a gifted programmer who was working unofficially from the age of about twelve, and headhunted for an actual job straight out of highschool.

MOO

 

[appleatcha]

Not a Mormon, so I could be wrong about this, but doesn't everyone have to go on a mission at 18?

No. It's voluntary. A lot of teenagers, especially boys, "volunteer" because of social pressure and/or parental ultimatums, but there are many young men and even more young women raised LDS who choose not to do it. Some are also ineligible due to "past sins" (like teenage pregnancy, even if the baby was placed for adoption), medical and mental health issues, etc. Some don't go because they can't afford it and their local congregation doesn't have the funds to pay their way, but that mostly happens to people outside of Utah since most Utah congregations have plenty of tithe-payers to pay for a mission. And like most Christian denominations, more than half of people who are "officially" LDS aren't actually active in the church at all. It's really a relatively small subset of children who are baptized LDS who continue being active in the church through their teens and choose to serve missions.

 

[knitting]

Response RE "her timeline." Only contact with Ruby could be verified through baby monitors. Any other info about the mother's routine came from her interview with police according to the probable cause document. See below for the section that quotes Carrie speaking about her own admitted timeline.

On 03/19/2025, Carrie and Mitchell were interviewed at the Cache County Sheriff's Office. Carrie informed investigators the last time she had seen R.M. was on 03/17/2025 at approximately 0300 hours when R.M. woke her up crying. Carrie informed investigators she changed R.M.'s diaper which was poopy and soaked. Carrie also stated she gave R.M. a snack and either milk or water.

Carrie said she left for work at Logan Regional Hospital at approximately 0500 and returned home at 1700 hours. Carrie described going through their normal nightly routine where she would shower and then eat dinner in bed while her and Mitchell would watch a show. Carrie informed investigators she did not see R.M. on 03/17/2025 when she returned home from work.

Carrie told investigators that she did not see R.M. on the day of 03/18/2025, however, she did hear her crying at around 0400, but she had to get up to get ready for work at 0415, so she figured Mitch would take care of it.

Carrie described getting home at a similar time on 03/17/2025 and going through her normal routine of taking a shower, eating dinner in bed, and watching a TV show. Carrie estimated she fell asleep around 2000 hours on 03/18/2025.

Carrie then walked investigators though the events of 03/19/2025. She informed them she had woken up at approximately 1000 hours and then went to the kitchen to get food, including two waffles with peanut butter on them for R.M. Carrie then described going to R.M.'s room and finding her deceased. She noted the door was closed and the mesh was zipped up when she went to R.M.'s room

 

[Izzylizzy]

Not a Mormon, so I could be wrong about this, but doesn't everyone have to go on a mission at 18?

Not according to iamshadow21 who is well versed on the topic which I am not.
My point in posting this was to show that MM did have an LDS Church past though we have no further info on his present standing within the church or CM's if she also is/was a Mormon.
imo

 

[Knox]

Response RE "her timeline." Only contact with Ruby could be verified through baby monitors. Any other info about the mother's routine came from her interview with police according to the probable cause document. See below for the section that quotes Carrie speaking about her own admitted timeline.

On 03/19/2025, Carrie and Mitchell were interviewed at the Cache County Sheriff's Office. Carrie informed investigators the last time she had seen R.M. was on 03/17/2025 at approximately 0300 hours when R.M. woke her up crying. Carrie informed investigators she changed R.M.'s diaper which was poopy and soaked. Carrie also stated she gave R.M. a snack and either milk or water.

Carrie said she left for work at Logan Regional Hospital at approximately 0500 and returned home at 1700 hours. Carrie described going through their normal nightly routine where she would shower and then eat dinner in bed while her and Mitchell would watch a show. Carrie informed investigators she did not see R.M. on 03/17/2025 when she returned home from work.

Carrie told investigators that she did not see R.M. on the day of 03/18/2025, however, she did hear her crying at around 0400, but she had to get up to get ready for work at 0415, so she figured Mitch would take care of it.

Carrie described getting home at a similar time on 03/17/2025 and going through her normal routine of taking a shower, eating dinner in bed, and watching a TV show. Carrie estimated she fell asleep around 2000 hours on 03/18/2025.

Carrie then walked investigators though the events of 03/19/2025. She informed them she had woken up at approximately 1000 hours and then went to the kitchen to get food, including two waffles with peanut butter on them for R.M. Carrie then described going to R.M.'s room and finding her deceased. She noted the door was closed and the mesh was zipped up when she went to R.M.'s room

Kudos to a Mom who works such a long shift and who has to be away from her 18 month old child for such a long period! But what Mom comes home after being absent for over fourteen hours - showers, eats dinner in bed, watches a show with her husband and never once checks on/spends time with her child? This is the weirdest case I've ever seen?!!

She explains her routine as if it's perfectly normal? Peanut butter waffles at 1:00 AM? Bullshite!!

 

[iamshadow21]

Not according to iamshadow21 who is well versed on the topic which I am not.
My point in posting this was to show that MM did have an LDS Church past though we have no further info on his present standing within the church or CM's if she also is/was a Mormon.
imo

I have no actual information but I'm going to take a guess that they weren't actively attending church.

Someone would have commented on Ruby's condition, or Ruby's absence. An emaciated toddler would not pass unremarked upon. Neither would a child her age being left at home. LDS services are a whole family affair.

MOO

 

[Queen of the Winter Night]

Kudos to a Mom who works such a long shift and who has to be away from her 18 month old child for such a long period! But what Mom comes home after being absent for over fourteen hours - showers, eats dinner in bed, watches a show with her husband and never once checks on/spends time with her child? This is the weirdest case I've ever seen?!!

She explains her routine as if it's perfectly normal? Peanut butter waffles at 1:00 AM? Bullshite!!

Might have given her a pass if she seemed like she truly trusted her husband to take care of things and was devastated about what happened to her child. But they are both calm, chill, and say "it was her time [to die]" so....not buying it!!!

 

[knitting]

The PB waffles were reportedly prepared at 10 AM, by which point Ruby was no longer alive.

 

[knitting]

I have no actual information but I'm going to take a guess that they weren't actively attending church.

Someone would have commented on Ruby's condition, or Ruby's absence. An emaciated toddler would not pass unremarked upon. Neither would a child her age being left at home. LDS services are a whole family affair.

MOO

This is something I am really wondering about.

There is a Facebook post MM made about a month after Ruby's death about them attending the temple. They're "active" enough to have temple recommends still. The funeral was very LDS. And most of the photos from Ruby's life in the funeral slideshow are taken at church.

I wonder if at some point during the winter/spring they quit taking her. Totally speculating. I also would love to know what ward members saw or thought.

(Full disclosure, I was raised LDS and quit attending in adulthood. I currently live in the heavily LDS community that Ruby"s family lives in.)

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Not a Mormon, so I could be wrong about this, but doesn't everyone have to go on a mission at 18?

Many do, but many do not. It is not mandatory, but rather custom.

 

[AhoyStarbuck]

Not according to iamshadow21 who is well versed on the topic which I am not.
My point in posting this was to show that MM did have an LDS Church past though we have no further info on his present standing within the church or CM's if she also is/was a Mormon.
imo

Totally get that. There is the post from after Ruby's death in which they are talking about going to Temple, and it appears to be both MM and CM both attending. Either way, I don't believe their faith had a bearing on their decisions to be terrible human beings at all. In fact, given this info:

I have no actual information but I'm going to take a guess that they weren't actively attending church.

Someone would have commented on Ruby's condition, or Ruby's absence. An emaciated toddler would not pass unremarked upon. Neither would a child her age being left at home. LDS services are a whole family affair.

MOO

and the fact we know vulnerable children who are visible to the community are overall 'more protected', being more involved might have protected Ruby.

 

[AhoyStarbuck]

Response RE "her timeline." Only contact with Ruby could be verified through baby monitors. Any other info about the mother's routine came from her interview with police according to the probable cause document. See below for the section that quotes Carrie speaking about her own admitted timeline.

On 03/19/2025, Carrie and Mitchell were interviewed at the Cache County Sheriff's Office. Carrie informed investigators the last time she had seen R.M. was on 03/17/2025 at approximately 0300 hours when R.M. woke her up crying. Carrie informed investigators she changed R.M.'s diaper which was poopy and soaked. Carrie also stated she gave R.M. a snack and either milk or water.

Carrie said she left for work at Logan Regional Hospital at approximately 0500 and returned home at 1700 hours. Carrie described going through their normal nightly routine where she would shower and then eat dinner in bed while her and Mitchell would watch a show. Carrie informed investigators she did not see R.M. on 03/17/2025 when she returned home from work.

Carrie told investigators that she did not see R.M. on the day of 03/18/2025, however, she did hear her crying at around 0400, but she had to get up to get ready for work at 0415, so she figured Mitch would take care of it.

Carrie described getting home at a similar time on 03/17/2025 and going through her normal routine of taking a shower, eating dinner in bed, and watching a TV show. Carrie estimated she fell asleep around 2000 hours on 03/18/2025.

Carrie then walked investigators though the events of 03/19/2025. She informed them she had woken up at approximately 1000 hours and then went to the kitchen to get food, including two waffles with peanut butter on them for R.M. Carrie then described going to R.M.'s room and finding her deceased. She noted the door was closed and the mesh was zipped up when she went to R.M.'s room

Thank you for posting this, Knitting. Do you have a source for the PCA, by chance? I looked into searching Utah's criminal record system, but it appears to be paywalled, and I am a Poor.

A few things about this that stand out:

1) The mention of the "poopy and soaked" diaper at 3:00am. Admittedly, it's been a while since I've dealt with the diaper department, but I remember sleep was more consolodated with less incidents of peeing throughout the night and less soaked through diapers. Definitely don't remember having poopy diapers in the middle of the night during this time.

Not overly significant, but I do wonder if maybe Ruby had an issue with this, and so MM/CM were withholding water and food to stop it from happening. Also makes me wonder if they ever even checked on her before they put themselves to sleep, although it very obviously doesn't seem like it. :/

2) CM went through "their" normal nightly routine, but then just describes the nightly routine for MM and herself. She showers and eats in bed, watches TV, and goes to sleep. What is happening with LM at this time? Ruby? Were they not bathing them at all?

Also, I know the parents described themselves as "not table people" or whatever, but holy moly. I can only imagine the crumbs in their bed. Secondly, my kiddo just barely turned 5, and we still have him with us to eat. We're not really strict dinner at the table people, but I'm still there to make sure he's eating the food, not making a mess, and has access to anything he needs (condiments, extra napkins, beverages, etc.). Obviously they were seriously neglecting/abusing Ruby, but I do wonder about LM and how he was treated, too...

3) CM gives that she wakes up at 4:15am and leaves around 5:00am. She said she assumes that MM would have taken care of RM, but like... you would know, you were home for almost an hour, even while getting ready. She also would have been in bed for another 15 minutes, so wouldn't she alert MM if he wasn't out of the bed? If she puts up a defense, I have a feeling she's going to throw MM under the bus. Zero lack of accountability.

4) Final thing is her sleeping 12 hours between 10pm-10am on 3/19/25. I get she worked two 12s, but it was also a Wednesday, and you would assume MM would be up. Was LM going to Pre-K at this time? Even if he wasn't, I know my kiddo is up by at least 8am, even if he goes to bed late. And if she's barely making breakfast for RM at this time, then it sounds like either MM wasn't awake or that she just assumes MM is not feeding Ruby breakfast at this point.

So many questions with this case... it's extremely sad.

 

[Stunned]

Thank you for posting this, Knitting. Do you have a source for the PCA, by chance? I looked into searching Utah's criminal record system, but it appears to be paywalled, and I am a Poor.

A few things about this that stand out:

1) The mention of the "poopy and soaked" diaper at 3:00am. Admittedly, it's been a while since I've dealt with the diaper department, but I remember sleep was more consolodated with less incidents of peeing throughout the night and less soaked through diapers. Definitely don't remember having poopy diapers in the middle of the night during this time.

Not overly significant, but I do wonder if maybe Ruby had an issue with this, and so MM/CM were withholding water and food to stop it from happening. Also makes me wonder if they ever even checked on her before they put themselves to sleep, although it very obviously doesn't seem like it. :/

2) CM went through "their" normal nightly routine, but then just describes the nightly routine for MM and herself. She showers and eats in bed, watches TV, and goes to sleep. What is happening with LM at this time? Ruby? Were they not bathing them at all?

Also, I know the parents described themselves as "not table people" or whatever, but holy moly. I can only imagine the crumbs in their bed. Secondly, my kiddo just barely turned 5, and we still have him with us to eat. We're not really strict dinner at the table people, but I'm still there to make sure he's eating the food, not making a mess, and has access to anything he needs (condiments, extra napkins, beverages, etc.). Obviously they were seriously neglecting/abusing Ruby, but I do wonder about LM and how he was treated, too...

3) CM gives that she wakes up at 4:15am and leaves around 5:00am. She said she assumes that MM would have taken care of RM, but like... you would know, you were home for almost an hour, even while getting ready. She also would have been in bed for another 15 minutes, so wouldn't she alert MM if he wasn't out of the bed? If she puts up a defense, I have a feeling she's going to throw MM under the bus. Zero lack of accountability.

4) Final thing is her sleeping 12 hours between 10pm-10am on 3/19/25. I get she worked two 12s, but it was also a Wednesday, and you would assume MM would be up. Was LM going to Pre-K at this time? Even if he wasn't, I know my kiddo is up by at least 8am, even if he goes to bed late. And if she's barely making breakfast for RM at this time, then it sounds like either MM wasn't awake or that she just assumes MM is not feeding Ruby breakfast at this point.

So many questions with this case... it's extremely sad.

I wonder if they just put food out for him to graze on when he got home from daycare. I knew of a hospital daycare that fed them breakfast, lunch and dinner. Maybe his daycare did also. So he ate all 3 meals there. Maybe it was open 24hrs.