UT UT- STILL MISSING 5 -Year-Old Elizabeth Shelley , Logan, 25 May 2019 (UNCLE ARRESTED) #2

[mickey2942]

Did the police also get search warrants for all of the cars that Alex might have had access to?

 

[insearchoflight]

But saybthey found an article of clothing containing dna from both. It can’t prove she was there, the article could have been removed from the home, imo. Idk, just guessing .
how would they know?

What if the article contained blood splatter that was also found on scene where the article was? Just a wild guess how they would assume that this article of clothing connects both of them to be together outside the home. Not saying I think that’s what happened, just saying they did state that they believe both to be together outside the home. If they believe that, I believe they have evidence to believe.

 

[Dontknow?]

But saybthey found an article of clothing containing dna from both. It can’t prove she was there, the article could have been removed from the home, imo. Idk, just guessing .
how would they know?

Okay. If a suspect in a SA investigation has a swab or his hands checked.

This link explains it.

Detecting the Presence of Male DNA in Cases of Sexual Assault without Ejaculation

 

[Trudie]

I try to stay open to all possibilities but if he passed her off for someone else then why would he have ditched or buried clothing or whatever all of this evidence is they have found? Not saying he might not have, just wondering what your theory is with that?

I’d like to know what he purchased at the store, the two jugs could be automotive related or juice.
Also the camera should show if he went to a vehicle with his purchases. If he didn’t, wth did he go carrying that stuff? LE want to know where he was Friday before showing up at the house. Someone must know. Even if he spent the day on a park bench, someone would know, imo.
How was he getting money to shop?

 

[Trudie]

Okay. If a suspect in a SA investigation has a swab or his hands checked.

This link explains it.

Detecting the Presence of Male DNA in Cases of Sexual Assault without Ejaculation

Detecting the Presence of Male DNA in Cases of Sexual Assault without Ejaculation

Lol, I personally don’t think they did this at the Logan county jail. Jmo

 

[ilovechili]

Oops, I just posted before I read this.
I think it can only be a doorbell camera that captured them, maybe belonging to a nearby house, not enough info to show his direction of travel.
Even blood droplets from both would not prove they bled at the same time, right? I doubt he was losing blood, he had enough to travel afoot for hours.
Moo
I know LE stated they have no video of Liz’ but possibly they don’t want to reveal that mom or a neighbor did have a camera.
I can’t think of any other proof they were both outside, together. Even if a weapon was found, it doesn’t put them together. Moo

I think video as you said or the only other thing I can think of is if for instance he did attack or assault this poor child outside of the house somewhere and they found something of hers, clothing or a toy with both of their blood or sadly, his semen and her blood, and adult and child footprints around the item and combining those two things shows they were together, or even just footprints if they could be matched to his shoes and hers. The only other way would seem to be her body and they don't have that.

 

[LusciousLeRoy]

If they found a weapon with both her dna and uncles dna (like blood) and also found her clothing that she was reported last wearing with his dna on it (like bodily fluids), I think that’s enough to say that they can connect him to being with her outside the home if none of this same dna evidence is found within the home.

All speculation on my part after reading the transcript of the presser which states they have dna evidence linking both him and her outside the home.

Could be saliva from a water bottle they shared, hair with the foot attached, skin, fingernail, a mix and match on any object.

 

[insearchoflight]

I’d like to know what he purchased at the store, the two jugs could be automotive related or juice.
Also the camera should show if he went to a vehicle with his purchases. If he didn’t, wth did he go carrying that stuff? LE want to know where he was Friday before showing up at the house. Someone must know. Even if he spent the day on a park bench, someone would know, imo.
How was he getting money to shop?

Whipple bought cigarettes and beer before leaving the store. He was arrested less than two hours later, walking along an isolated road in Cache County, the station reported.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...le-suspected-in-utah-girls-disappearance/amp/

 

[Trudie]

Whipple bought cigarettes and beer before leaving the store. He was arrested less than two hours later, walking along an isolated road in Cache County, the station reported.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...le-suspected-in-utah-girls-disappearance/amp/

Nope, I mean the photos released today. They show him shopping Friday. Thanks though.

 

[Trudie]

Could be saliva from a water bottle they shared, hair with the foot attached, skin, fingernail, a mix and match on any object.

But a water bottle can be brought from the house. Hair sheds. It really is quite perplexing, imo.

 

[Hte2w8]

I’ve also been pondering what could / could not definitively prove what investigators have shared that they know. It’s got me stumped. But, they come across so confidently so I would expect it to be rock solid. I just don’t know what IT is.

But saybthey found an article of clothing containing dna from both. It can’t prove she was there, the article could have been removed from the home, imo. Idk, just guessing .
how would they know?

I think the term DNA is being used a little loosely in regards to this case. If LE didn't find blood inside, but found blood outside that belongs to both Lizzy and him, I think that is evidence that they were outside together. Yes, blood contains DNA, but it is forensic evidence in it's own right. Witnesses put them inside together, that is not in dispute. It's possible blood belonging to both, possible co mingled, or her blood and his bodily fluids, saliva, hair, or something else they can type as his places them outside together.
MOO

 

[aegarner1]

Whatever they found early on after finding him gave them enough cause to change it to a recovery effort early on in the case. There had to be something significant on him or evidence found for them to do this.

 

[Trudie]

It's possible blood belonging to both, possible co mingled, or her blood and his bodily fluids, saliva, hair, or something else they can type as his places them outside together.

Tysm
I understand but I question if co mingled fluids are on an object, the object might have been brought from the house, it would not conclusively prove they were there together, would it? For ex: say the shirt she last wore was found with co mingled blood, he (Or anyone) could have brought the shirt outside, correct?
Now, if co mingled fluids were found on the ground, that would be Different? Ty

 

[Curious Guy]

May, 28 2019 16:02:18 CART246
Tue May 28 17:12:41 2019

Girl's panties found at 46 S 200 W.

http://web.loganutah.org/Police/media.cfm

Ugh. I've been keeping up and not posting but this news. No,Just no.

 

[SuperTmo]

There was a women who went missing after hurricane Katrina... her boyfriend put her in a trunk and moved her around with him for years. Mummy found in trunk in N.O. house; former boyfriend on trial for murder - nola.com

Whattt??!!! Now I’ve heard it all. That is insane!

 

[ilovechili]

Exactly. No video footage. Could they have a still shot from a camera?
Just guessing.

I think they could have video of him with her. I am getting used to seeing that we do not always get the full truth and investigators have every right to do that. If I recall correctly they asked if there was any footage of Lizzy and he said no. They did not ask if there was any footage of Alex w/Lizzy? Just a thought. He could even always say he took the question to mean was there any footage of Lizzy alone or showing she took off on her own...? No, they have no footage of just Lizzy he could mean--not taking the question to mean her and him... Or as you say a still shot. It is kind of the same idea, they are telling the truth, mostly... If one takes it exactly and specifically as the question is asked only.

Edited to clarify and I still did not word it well

 

[Trudie]

Whatever they found early on after finding him gave them enough cause to change it to a recovery effort early on in the case. There had to be something significant on him or evidence found for them to do this.

I know, they transitioned to recovery very fast. Back pedaled on that today though.
It would appear they found enough blood evidence to conclude “this won’t end well.”

 

[susiQ]

I think video as you said or the only other thing I can think of is if for instance he did attack or assault this poor child outside of the house somewhere and they found something of hers, clothing or a toy with both of their blood or sadly, his semen and her blood, and adult and child footprints around the item and combining those two things shows they were together, or even just footprints if they could be matched to his shoes and hers. The only other way would seem to be her body and they don't have that.

Your post made me think about ES's shoes. Were any of her shoes missing? If not, he likely carried her out injured or dead. I also thought I saw a detached garage/barn on the property. Did anyone else see this? As far as DNA outside the home linking them as being together, could it be her clothing they found with both his and her DNA. Does that necessarily mean they were still together or did he think all he needed to do was dispose of the physical evidence that tied him to her? He was probably not thinking too clearly when all this was happening, given his alcohol and drug use.

I'm still unsure as to whether the evil transpired in the house or outside the house, maybe the garage? Strange that there is no video of little ES with him anywhere, or at least yet. Sincerely hope they locate her soon. Such enormous heartache for the family.

 

[Trudie]

My first thought, and I don’t like it—is that people who use a knife violently can sometimes cut themselves. However, I don’t think there’s been any mention of his having hand wounds.

I also really like kgreg’s suggestion of her punching him in the nose, and making it bleed. I’d love for that to be true.

His nose looks perfectly fine to me.
I read the scanner thread so I hear ya on the knife.
I’m still very curious about his purchases Friday. Some think he bought antifreeze or motor oil, he has two containers clearly visible in his plastic grocery bag.
If he bought items for a vehicle, thatmis most interesting, imo.

 

[ilovechili]

I’d like to know what he purchased at the store, the two jugs could be automotive related or juice.
Also the camera should show if he went to a vehicle with his purchases. If he didn’t, wth did he go carrying that stuff? LE want to know where he was Friday before showing up at the house. Someone must know. Even if he spent the day on a park bench, someone would know, imo.
How was he getting money to shop?

That picture was Friday right? At a Wal-mart people figured? Yes, they would know how he came and left then and know what he purchased as well. Was he on his board, on foot, did someone drive him, did he drive...? Do you remember offhand what time that was?