UT - Suicides or Serial Killer's Victims? Three Utah bodies found in burning cars

[SuziQ]

The reporter that stated that the boys had suicidal tendencies was full of crap. The SHERIFFS Department is investigating these cases not the POLICE Department. Either the police department misspoke or the reporter is just trying to get interviews.

IMO, the reporter was repeating what detectives told him, and he did later refer to the Sheriff's department. Unfortunately this could be an indication of which way the department is leaning in their investigation. From your post and from others I definitely get the impression that the comment doesn't fit. So where did the detectives get their information that these two guys had suicidal tendencies?

And I'm not sure how that comment would get the reporter interviews.

 

[SuziQ]

The below article states that detectives now state it's ok for family to release Zach's picture.

http://www.local12.com/mostpopular/...rned-Utah-Remains/Nyy5kSymsE6_v1VJWIEMlw.cspx

 

[ginan69]

The detective assigned to this case said they hadn't said anything about suicidal tendencies from either of the victims. I think the reporter just printed that so the loved ones would want to prove him wrong, therefore: want to be interviewed.

 

[SuziQ]

The detective assigned to this case said they hadn't said anything about suicidal tendencies from either of the victims. I think the reporter just printed that so the loved ones would want to prove him wrong, therefore: want to be interviewed.

This reporter doesn't strike me as the type to do that. I don't know him personally, but I've followed his reporting for years. He seems pretty solid to me. It could be the detective you spoke to is not the one the reporter spoke to?

 

[ginan69]

Okay SuziQ, what are your thoughts on this??? I don't mean to put you on the spot, you seem very knowledgable about this sort of thing. I don't know if Greg would commit suicide, but then again, who would want to burn to death and why didn't he leave a note or just call someone. Don't suicide victims usually leave a note or some sort of sign??? Greg didn't know how the first victim died, except that he was in his car and he burned to death. Were there propane tanks involved at the Spruces campground??? It doesn't seem like there are any leads that tie these deaths together. I know they released a lot of details about Greg's case, but what about the others??? How did the fires start in their cars. Could my brother have meant to die from the fumes from the propane tanks and then the fire was an accident???? Can you die from propane tank fumes if the windows are somewhat down????

 

[SuziQ]

My feeling is that there is enough of a similarity in these cases that they need to be investigated deeply. While people do commit suicide this way, IMO, it's highly unusual for so many in a short period of time. ITA with you on lack of info on the other cases. It would be nice to know for comparison. Most suicide victims do leave some sort of indicator or have a past history of severe depression, etc. Some do not and those are the most frustrating for family. I don't know how propane alone would effect someone.

Most murder cases with multiple vics do not have anything to tie them together except for the killer and how they died. Victims of the same killer may share the same physical charictaristics and age group, but they rarely know each other or anything conclusive like that. A killer is the only connection between most murder victims. The only connection may only be that the killer decided to make these guys his victims.

I wish I had more for you. LE is being tight lipped and there just isn't much info out there. If it wasn't for you and others posting here, we wouldn't have anything at all. So thank you.

 

[SuziQ]

Another thought about connections between murder victims. Gary Hilton's victims were never connected by LE until he was arrested. I believe he had about a dozen victims in three different states ranging from the age of early 20's to 70's. His motives ranged from robbery, sexual assault, or just being plain pissed off. His methods ranged from strangulation to beatings to gunshots. The only connection between his victims was him.

IMO, when LE says they don't see a connection, it doesn't mean there isn't one.

 

[colette]

Maybe there were fumes from the tanks and a spark set them off. You aren't supposed to use cell phones while pumping gas, maybe cell phones sparked fumes in some manner.

 

[k4kathy]

Suicide...noway.These three young men were murdered.The killer must be keeping track of the investigations also.I noticed the killer removed liscense plate and scratched off VIN number from the third victims automobile.

 

[colette]

I believe they first thought the plate was removed, but now they say it wasn't. They must have found it in the burned-out remains of the car.

 

[Sharedspirit]

I first heard about this story on WSAZ out of charleston WV. My heart goes out to the families and friends of these young men. Is it just me or is this happening more often these days?

 

[KY Sleuth]

Does anyone know if Zach was gay or straight?

what does this have to do with anything?

 

[UrbanSLC]

what does this have to do with anything?

I was trying to find other similarities. Lorin was gay. If the others were too, this would be a very obvious connection between the victims.

 

[SuziQ]

I was trying to find other similarities. Lorin was gay. If the others were too, this would be a very obvious connection between the victims.

I actually wanted to ask the same question, but you were braver than I.

 

[SuziQ]

I want to explain why I wanted to know these men's sexual orientation. Some of he gay men I've known have hooked up with other men in ways that make me scared for them. And I've followed many crime cases where random hook-ups have ended up badly.

 

[SuziQ]

Very interesting article and video at the below link.

Family finds tie between two men killed in burning cars
April 8th, 2009 @ 10:00pm
By John Hollenhorst

http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=6100982

 

[KY Sleuth]

deleted

 

[aboutagirl]

Zach was definitely straight, unless he "came out" at college and hadn't had the guts to tell his parents and people at home (doubtful). He didn't work directly with the youth, but throughout high school he was known to attend a youth group service at the First Christian Church. I doubt that he would have been continuing this in college. I never knew him to be judgmental; he respected people's privacy and wouldn't have gotten too involved in any campaigns against abuse or polygamy. The only tie that I can think of it that he volunteered for a program to pick up litter or plant trees and became involved with troubled youth groups that we doing the same thing (a stretch).

In reference to the inconclusive dental records I might suggest that damage was done to the mouth either pre or post-mortem (several teeth displaced from the mouth intentionally or accidentally?), and maybe there weren't enough dental remains to make an affirmative statement.

I will say one more thing that everyone has already heard and will probably hear many more times: Zach would never have committed suicide. He was the happiest, most life-loving person I know. To those who say that the signs of depression can be subtle--- I can only say that I have worked with suicidal people before, and have struggled with depression in my past and Zach did not show the slightest indication that he was unsatisfied with his life.

 

[MeoW333]

I was trying to find other similarities. Lorin was gay. If the others were too, this would be a very obvious connection between the victims.

It's possible the killer is meeting the young men off of a social networking site.
These are definitely not suicides.

Aboutagirl, i agree with you about the possibility that teeth were removed so that dental matching would be hard.

Does anyone know a timeline in order of which men were murdered, first, second, and third? I'm curious to see how the killer attempts to perfect his MO..

 

[fran]

From what was written and linked about these vicitims yesterday, I definitely can see a POSSIBILITY of a link between these victims. With the first two men and their work with youth, most definitely. It seems Greg's ex-wife would really know the 'inner-workings' of what made Greg tick. I believe the POSSIBLE connection should NOT be ignored. What Greg told her in confidence, SHOULD NOT be discarded.

From what those who knew Zach have said, it's still very POSSIBLE his death can be connected to the first two. I know, for those who knew him before he went away to college, you may not be able to see it now, but from what you've said about the 'real' Zach, he very well may have gotten involved in some group that worked, in some way, connected to the first two victims. One who knew Zach even said that he had worked with youth in the past. Who knows what he may have began doing with just such a 'theme,' if you will, when he went away to college.

It's been reported that on the day he disappeared, Zach was said to be applying for a job. IMHO, that's most likely what lured him to the remote destination he was eventually discovered in. What if he was persuing a possible job that worked with youth and nature? That would, totally from what I've seen of Zach, most likely fit into his personality and interests.

LE says they're investigating the victim's lives, friends, family, and even computers. I truly believe they're going to find something. These are not coincidental incidents, IMHO. Of course I could be wrong, but I'm not getting that feeling. It's the bigger picture that points to murder, IMO.

Let's wait and see what LE comes up with regarding these three lost men. Time may tell IF there truly is a connection.

JMHO
fran