UT - Suicides or Serial Killer's Victims? Three Utah bodies found in burning cars

[nmr]

nmr, do you know if Tyler was officially reported missing? I guess to post a thread in the "Missing/Located Discussion" forum, there has to have been an official report filed. I'm waiting to find out where to start the thread if there wasn't an official report...

As far as I know, he was never officially reported missing since it was such a short time span between the time he disappeared and the time they found his car with what they correctly assumed was his body inside of it. He definitely never appeared on the Twin Falls County missing persons website. I got a call from a detective on Monday, April 19th at around 5 PM, and though they told me he was missing, I realized after the fact that they'd never asked me if I had any ideas as to where he might have gone. I think they were certain enough about the identity of the body at that point that they didn't bother calling him a missing person.

 

[Cosmictadpole]

OK, thank you. That's what I thought. Maybe the correct place would be right here in "Crimes in the News," then. Hopefully I'll find out soon.

 

[Cosmictadpole]

Haven't heard anything back, so I've started a thread for Tyler here:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5183648#post5183648

 

[Cosmictadpole]

Here is the most recent article I can find on the third Utah case:

By WENDY MITCHELL (Maysville Ledger)
Posted: Thursday, January 28, 2010

Months after the identification of a Maysville man as the body found in a burned out car in the desert mountains of southern Utah, police are no closer to resolving questions about how Zachary Ruble died, officials said.

"Until or if anyone comes forward with something they know, and maybe thought was insignificant, officially the case is listed as closed with cause undetermined," said Washington County Utah Sheriff's Detective Nate Abbot on Thursday. Wendy Mitchell, (Maysville Ledger)

http://www.maysville-online.com/news/local/article_38e0a296-0c93-11df-827d-001cc4c002e0.html

 

[wanttohelp]

could this also be connected
link

 

[Leomoon80]

The first two deaths were only 3 1/2 miles apart.
Notice to the third, almost a straight shot down the state.

Interesting,
fran


http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?w...wMV9IdXJyaWNhbmUlMmMrVVRfX19fJnJ0b3A9MCU3ZTA=

Does anyone have the Dates of Birth of these 3 young men?

So far, I found Lorin Fischer's only : Oct. 17, 1980 on the posted Obit.

Thanks in advance to everyone

 

[wanttohelp]

Zachary James Ruble
October 25, 1989 - April 2, 2009

 

[wanttohelp]

cant find tylers and he should be the easiest since people who have posted knew him.
i wish someone would update us on what is going on.

 

[wanttohelp]

Just wanted to list the possible victims, death by fire in car, suicide or murder

christopher jessop + 2 kids
tyler thoroman
zachary ruble
greg nelson
lorin fischer

 

[Cosmictadpole]

Quote copied from Tyler Thoroman's thread:

Can someone list the dates of death for all the men known so far who have died. Thanks. I'm finding it more than a little disturbing to compare dates of death for those who have died under mysterious circumstances to known specific ritual dates:

http://libertytothecaptives.net/ritual_calendar.html

http://members.cox.net/lop1/SRAcalendar.html

This might be nothing at all but just seems like there's been a growing number of these cases.

These are the dates that the men were found dead. However, in some cases, they may have died the day prior.

Lorin Deloy Fischer: 3/9/09
Gregory M. Nelson: 3/20/09
Zachary Ruble: 4/2/09
Tyler Thoroman: 4/18/10

I don't have the date for the latest case that was brought up by wanttohelp, but I imagine that it is listed at the link for the article.

 

[Missizzy]

I've said this before and I will repeat it on this thread; I do not want to be the resident poster who always throws SRA into the mix. Yes, there has been hysteria in the past. However, I believe that clear heads need to look at all possible motives and scenarios. I don't ever want to get to a place in my life where I am afraid to bring up a possible explanation as that is denying the suffering of the victim. That said, through my research into the probable occult connection in Randy Leach's April 16, 1988 disappearance, I have found these sites which outline Satanic ritual dates.

Please, please note, that these are in NO way connected with Paganism or Wiccan practices, which profess peace and a celebration of the earth and the spirit. These are specifically Satanic. If my understanding of Satanism is correct, these would be connected to Anton LaVey's specific form of Atheistic Satanism. I will provide some links and you can each draw your own conclusions.

Dates:

http://libertytothecaptives.net/ritual_calendar.html

http://www.labyrinthofpeople.com/lop1/SRAcalendar.html

http://members.cox.net/lop1/SRAcalendar.html


Info on the Satanic Bible and other books by Anton LaVey:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Bible

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Rituals

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Satanic_Witch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil's_Notebook


General info on the various forms of Satanism; Theistic, Atheistic and Pseudo

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism



And finally, the official website of the Church of Satan:

http://www.churchofsatan.com/home.html

 

[wanttohelp]

hey mizzy i didnt mean i think its wrong to consider this when i asked how u found them, i was really just curious why that person on the disassociate site listed the satanic holidays, do u know. that was just kinda random on her list.

 

[Missizzy]

I think that many people who have suffered from SRA (Satanic Ritual Abuse) have triggers around certain dates. When you check carefully into the books I linked to above, each of the dates have some sort of significance.

I'd never really thought about the way these dates might have played a part into so many unsolved mysteries, disappearances, and murders. Researching the mystery of Randy Leach has led me to pay far better attention. As helpful as LE can be, they surely don't want people frightened and up in arms about Satanists in our midst. They seem to be far more likely to want to try a case on the nuts and bolts facts.....not the motive behind the actions.

I see it as just another piece of the puzzle. I don't pretend to understand Satanism, at all. I think that many people are drawn to LaVey's form of it for different reasons. He professed that we are our own Gods and should have anything and everything we desired. That can be twisted in so many sick ways. Pay close attention to the different forms of Satanism.

Those who are Christian often forget that there are two sides of the coin--God and Satan. We all profess to know God's greatness but often forget Satan's power. The Atheitic form of Satanism-LaVey's form--teaches us to just take what we want. The pseudo-Satanism is nothing more than committing evil and calling it Satanism.

That's my very naive and narrow view of what I'm seeing and researching. There was definitely hysteria in the eighties but I don't believe we should throw out the baby with the bathwater. Evil in the name of Satan has been committed since the dawn of time. Why should now be any different?

I think it's highly possible that these men were burned after they had been tortured in some awful way. I wish I didn't think that but I do. I've spent far too many hours reading about cases like this.

 

[Cosmictadpole]

This is interesting Missizzy... is there anything besides the dates that would lead you to make a Satanic connection? I'm just curious, because the more obvious connection to me would be Mormonism/LDS. Do you think maybe Mormons are being targeted by Satanists? Or that these men were acting out/rebelling against their religious roots by getting involved in Satanism? I'm just curious if there's something you've noticed about these cases that I've overlooked. Death by fire definitely does have something ritualistic about it... But if you read much about Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints, you'll find that their original beliefs (and some say they still have these beliefs today) included some pretty violent rituals as well.

 

[wanttohelp]

This is interesting Missizzy... is there anything besides the dates that would lead you to make a Satanic connection? I'm just curious, because the more obvious connection to me would be Mormonism/LDS. Do you think maybe Mormons are being targeted by Satanists? Or that these men were acting out/rebelling against their religious roots by getting involved in Satanism? I'm just curious if there's something you've noticed about these cases that I've overlooked. Death by fire definitely does have something ritualistic about it... But if you read much about Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints, you'll find that their original beliefs (and some say they still have these beliefs today) included some pretty violent rituals as well.

i looked around and only thing i could really find is maybe like blood atonement and the blood having to go into the land or something

 

[Chanler]

To me, unexplained deaths combined with car burnings do raise suspicions, but I share Cosmictadpole's curiosity about why these incidents might indicate some sick twisting of satanic belief.

I'm also interested in the geographical locations of these crime scenes. (I'm a New Yorker without recent experience even traveling through this region.) Do these crimes force a spoke around a locale or are they all off a central highway or suchlike?

I thank any responder in advance.

 

[Cosmictadpole]

To me, unexplained deaths combined with car burnings do raise suspicions, but I share Cosmictadpole's curiosity about why these incidents might indicate some sick twisting of satanic belief.

I'm also interested in the geographical locations of these crime scenes. (I'm a New Yorker without recent experience even traveling through this region.) Do these crimes force a spoke around a locale or are they all off a central highway or suchlike?

I thank any responder in advance.

I have been mapping them on Google Earth. I am very interested in the geographic locations and the relationship, or lack thereof, between them. I haven't found an obvious correlation, except that the seem to have taken place in rural areas not extremely far off of central thoroughfares (except for Zack's death, which took place in a very isolated place). I'll see if I can capture some screenshots of the mapping I've done and post them here.

 

[Missizzy]

For those who might not have noticed, I was a frequent poster on the Mohler thread. The six trials are winding their way through the trial prep and the dates are already on the dockets. I should start by saying that I consider myself Christian but am not a member of a church. I spent weeks researching the Mormon church and their response to child sexual abuse and also their response to Satanic accusations in the 1980's.

The revelation that there had been a disclosure of a murder committed by the young Mohler children, caused me to dig deeper. That led me to the disappearance of Randy Leach from Linwood, Kansas in 1988. I even went so far as to order an out of print copy of "Blood Atonement", the story of Jeffrey Lundgren. That was not a pleasant read. We need to keep in mind that some of Lundgren's cult members as well as his children have been released or have grown to adulthood. Even though the Lundgren cult's murders were committed in 1989 (exactly one year after Randy Leach's disappearance), Lundgren was only recently put to death. The vile acts that these people took part "in the name of the prophet" will twist their brains forever IMO.

Recently, I decided to go back over the 80 pages of the Mohler thread and take careful notes. I have learned so much. I have received some of the most intriguing but disturbing and heartwrenching personal messages from survivors of this type of mind control abuse, under the guise of a loving, church-going family. Abuse that totally encompasses a family and the very lives of the children. In going back over those pages, I found a few sites that might be of interest on this thread. I don't profess to have any answers but I have many questions. I feel that the more people who gather this info and carefully pick through it, the better. We must bear witness for the victims, regardless of how uncomfortable that might make us.

One interesting note, however, is that once the investigation began, many church-run sites began to disappear. That was very disheartening as they had lots of pertinent information on them. Survivors' pages remained and some helpful posters helped me find cached articles.

Please remember that I am not vouching for the veracity of any of these sites nor the details therein. Often interesting info will be posted on sites with opposite viewpoints but I'll take the info where I can get it. Try not to simply consider the source as the article you are reading might be "lifted" from another website. You must decide for yourself what to believe and what to discount. I will post those that might be of interest below:

http://web.archive.org/web/20020621...nce.org/casereports/volume1/part1/v1p1c06.htm (a cached site which must have been removed by the Mormon church, concerning ritual abuse--note this is the 6th chapter, there are more--if you figure out how to open them please let us know!!)

http://www.exmormon.org/updates.htm (ex-Mormon site--much of the original Alliance and stories are covered here)

http://www.cesnur.org/2001/archive/mi_mormons.htm (a site about Mormonism and Satanism form 1985-1994)

http://www.holysmoke.org/wicca/issue81.htm (a highly confusing piece which has quite a backstory but which I include as there's lot of details)

http://www.endritualabuse.org/ritualabusearchive.htm (more recent cases)

http://hellminus1.com/ (the personal story of a woman who suffered through years of Satanic abuse, in a staunchly Mormon home--the shocking difference is that her parents confessed to the crimes)

http://ritualabuse.us/ritualabuse/survivor-stories/interview-with-the-author-of-hell-minus-one/ (an interview concerning the author above)

http://www.i4m.com/think/sexuality/mormon_sex_purity.htm (Apostle Richard Scott's sermon about the Mormon victims' complicity in sexual abuse)

http://www.survivorship.org/resources/dates.html (difficult dates)

http://www.skepticfiles.org/ccin/fil18875.htm (once again, a disturbing piece which requires some picking through)

http://ritualabusearticles.wordpress.com/ (great links)

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/mass/lundgren/index_1.html (17 pages but far shorter and less gruesome than the novel, "Prophet of Death: The Mormon Blood Atonement Killings")


I hope that something contained within these pages might shed some light onto these needless deaths. Let me know if you need even more resources.

 

[Missizzy]

Just going to throw this into the mix. I have no idea if it has any connection to these crimes.

While researching another case I came upon an unusual story. At first I thought it was a joke. Then I thought it was just a single disgruntled person writing negatively about an organization. But I dug further. I refuse to attempt to make any connections but will just set these links gently on the table for others' perusal:

http://circlesphere.blogspot.com/

http://www.bestfriendsinfo.com/History.html

http://www.rickross.com/reference/process_church/process_church2.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_Friends_Animal_Society (only mentions The Foundation or The Process Church once, in passing)


And here I truly admired this animal sanctuary from afar and had dreams of visiting some day. I don't think so. I literally had no idea about their history. If anyone is interested, there are many resources available if you google "The Process Church" or "The Foundation".

You'll note that there's also a book:

"Love, Sex, Fear, Death: The Inside Story of The Process Church of the Final Judgment" Timothy Wyllie (Editor), Adam Parfrey (Editor)

June 2009

Just putting it out there.

 

[Sharai]

The victim found near Saltaire was my brother. Noone that knew him well thinks it was suicide. There was an eight hour period before he was found in the car where noone knows where he was. I cannot imagine Greg WANTING to die in such a painful way. He worked out and took very good care of himself. I hope they find out what happened in all three of these cases.

Deepest condolences for your loss. May justice be served through discovery and prosecution of those responsible for your brother's death.