UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #3

[Dr.Fessel]

O/T, Whoa.

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=9072052

4 found dead in West Jordan home

Dang.

 

[Vegas Bride]

ABC Nightline is also covering Susan!

VB

 

[kiki the parrot]

Yes, Josh may run but he cannot hide. I am very sure that LE is on him 24/7 so they can keep him in sight until enough evidence is accumulated to effect an arrest circumstantially, or a body is found. I agree with a prior post that he probably did a "rush" job - in other words, he just dumped her as soon as he could. I doubt if he was able to do much digging, since the weather was so bad (but he may have tried - hence the chapped hands).
My own personal concern, and I know that I keep saying it over and over, is Josh committing suicide/homicide with the boys. He is such a psycho/control freak, he may take the innocent children with him. I do not know if he has unsupervised visits. Even if LE were lurking in the shadows, it may be too late.
Now that the sun has come out and the temperature is better, hopefully two things: More people will be outside searching, and the snow will melt a little with increased exposure of the landscape.
But I also agree with the poster before, he may be losing it mentally, and is struggling with the implication of what he has done. Maybe the religion factor can come in handy - guilt and need for retribution tends to be a central focus in many religious doctrines.
OK, now hope for either a confession or a discovery tomorrow!:angel:

(bbm) "Guilt" and "retribution," If by this you mean conviction and repentance I wouldn't hold my breath for that from an abuser, narcissist or worse if he could murder his children's mother in cold blood but that's JMO. Agree w rest of your post.

There are also groups for men involved in these addictions. I have been told that approximately 30% of these cases also involve abuse. I have to absolutely applaud out loud the passion, dedication, professional experience and compassion these LDS counselors have that are dealing with this. I believe that they could be a GREAT HELP in getting the church to more closely and effectively deal with these men. Some men are truly repentant, some are manipulative, cunning psychopaths that use their religion as a mask to hind their sins behind. Those are the ones that never repent but are predators in the real sense of the word.

Again, think we can safely say the murderous ones tend to fall more into the unrepentant, manipulative, cunning category.

arrot:

 

[SuziQ]

Here is a thread for the West Jordan murders.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4577982#post4577982"]Utah, Two adults, two children dead in murder suicide-West Jordan - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[nadjatheresa]

ISSUE videos are now uploading to You Tube and should be ready to view within the hour. Due to the hour, I won't be around to post them, just click on the link in my siggie to view the videos.

Can I tell you how much I appreciate your video library and how wonderful it is to be able to catch up on cases and spend some down time after everyone else is asleep watching these shows? I never get the chance to catch them on TV and it has been such a pleasure to go to your site and watch the videos.

Thank you so much for providing everyone with this amazing resource! It must take a lot of work!

 

[omegagal]

I think Texas Mist and Passionflower are on to something. Sounds like they have had experiences not unlike Susan or myself....

My theory of what happened is based on what I have read, seen and heard so far on this case as well as personal experiences in the church and with a psychopath. Any licensed clinicians with additional experience with psychopaths, narcissists and abuse please feel free to chime in.

Background: I think around the time Susan had her first baby things she only barely noticed in Josh's personality started becoming more distinct. The control and power issues were now at full force. (Someone on the earlier news report said Susan and Josh seemed to be doing well and were happy when they first moved to the area 5 years ago)
One of the first things an abuser will do is take the woman away from her support system (family in Washington) He has family in Utah. Obviously they did not move there because he had this wonderful, high paying career waiting for him. What he didn't expect is that Susan was strong and well liked and would develop a support system in her new community. It must have driven him wild to see how competent and happy she could find herself, especially without him being the reason for her happiness. After all she was merely an extension of himself as were "his" children.

Over the last couple of months: The power and control issues were getting worse and worse. Susan had made a couple of very smart moves. She had gotten a decent job. Josh had been telling her for some time that if she left, she would never be able to support herself. He probably said "Look at me, I can't even handle a full time job. Do you think a judge is ever going to give you enough support that you could live off it?" The psychopath always underestimates his victim. They may have started out with marital counseling but more than likely the counselor (probably from LDS Family Services) realized after a few interviews, it was an abuse issue not a marital issue. That means that Susan was probably in counseling with a private counselor as well as her bishop. Psychopaths never subcomb to treatment. After all they are smarter and wiser than any professional counselor so Josh would never see a counselor or admit the abuse. Susan was probably put on either anti-depressants, anti-anxiety or sleeping pills or some combination of these. This would give Josh the opportunity to start telling people that Susan "wasn't right" or that she was "unstable". He would love to believe that but no one else was really buying into it. So things started getting worse and worse for Josh. She had to be stopped.

Currently: I think that Susan and Josh had an enormous fight or "power struggle" Saturday night or Sunday morning before church. Josh said he wasn't going to church, Susan went. Her friend Kriisi (sp?) said she didn't see Susan at church but saw her when walking home. I bet Susan was in the bishop's office telling him what had just happened. You DO see your best friends during church at least some time during the 3 hours you attend. Josh knowing his time was about out, made a plan. While Susan was at church, he took Susan's entire bottle of sleeping pills and crushed them, planning to put them in her food at dinner, then leaving with the boys for sledding to come home to find that Susan had killed herself with an overdose of sleeping pills. His plan backfired because as usual Susan messed with the plan. Instead Susan invited someone to come over after church for an early dinner. This drove Josh nuts as he had already crushed all the pills. What if Susan saw all of her pills missing???? So Josh went along with the plan. Very interesting how he didn't serve a casserole but make individual "pancakes" and scrambled eggs. I'll bet you anything that you can not taste medication in eggs or perhaps juice. Then he has to keep checking on her during dinner. This is the point where he starts getting schizoid because of the change of plans. He tells her friend that he's taking the boys sledding to show he's going to be out of the house with the boys for a while hoping that will cover his butte and get her to leave. Susan starts feeling poorly and needs to lie down. The friend leaves and he takes the boys out for a while to let his poor wife die in bed, figuring when he gets home he can put the bottle next to her bed. Only instead, when he left Susan got up out of bed, making it to the living room collapses on the floor where she proceeds to foam at the mouth or vomit. When he comes home he finds her like this. I think he's not the "good dad" as people make him out to be. Psychopaths are too lazy to be good parents. They are controlling parents. Josh would have put the kids either back in the car right away (oldest one up front as he can talk) or put them in a room by themselves while he put Susan in the van and started to clean up. He probably got all that together by 12:30. The oldest child must have known that Susan was in the back of the van, though and probably asked his dad some good questions. (that child and DNA are going to be Susan's saving grace) I think since Josh told reporters he was south and then west of SLC that Josh actually went just the opposite way, either north or east. I also think he pulled off on the side of the road and the oldest child saw "woods" or "trees" in the head lights. Not a forest, not a desert, not a heavy snowstorm but "woods/trees". Meanwhile Josh came around to the back of the van and took Susan's body out and either (must still be an active suicide plan) put her in a large body of water near a bridge or even worst put her in a sewer hole. I do think he's smart and just playing dumb. But I don't think he's brilliant and he's certainly no where near as brilliant as he thinks he is.

Also, I agree with the lip thing. It's almost a smirk of contempt for LE and the press. When he says I just want to find her, I hear him saying "and you won't find her". Listen and watch that interview by his car again. Seems like he's just evil and taunting the press.

 

[hellolisakitty]

I could not tell you what religion Scott Peterson, Jason Young, Drew
Peterson, Craig Stebic, or Brad Cooper are, or if they were counseled by
their Bishop, Priest, or private counselor, and IMO it doesn't matter.

Some Bishops, Priest, and private counselors may have suggested
for their wives to stick it out and work on their marriages too.

I just think it's sad that when other cases like this happen
we don't hash their religion ... it seems to only be a problem when they
are LDS.

A lot of people, in a lot of different religions have problems with abuse,
drugs, etc.
…. not just Mormons.

At this point we don’t even know if Josh was an active Mormon,
or if they even went to be counseled by their Bishop or anyone else
for that matter.

I just see another psychopath man who probably killed his wife.

I think part of that can be blamed on local media. It is just a fact of life around here... if you are LDS they will somehow tie it to the story. Same thing happened with Elizabeth Smart. If the media does not mention it first then the family does. Just seems to be the Utah thing to do. Sometimes I will watch the news and for no apparent reason they will mention that the person was LDS and I am left scratching my head...

And some of the people above, they might not even be religious, let alone seek out counseling at a church. I know if I ever needed to go to counseling it would be with a therapist... and if anything would ever happen to me they would not be able to tie a religion to me...

But in the end, yes.... it is just another psycho that killed his wife.

 

[SusanB]

Dang.

anyone know where this is?

 

[omegagal]

Ugh. I guess we can only hope that the majority of the bishops out there would not do the same thing... especially when the guy has a pattern of abuse! That is just wrong. If anything you would think the soon-to-be wife would be warned or at least counseled beforehand of the known abuse.

Although very nice guys, I have had two bishops live on my block over the years. One was a mortgage broker (or something along those lines)... and the other was somewhat of a big wig at a Fortune 500 company. Again, very nice - but certainly did not hold a degree or anything close to that in order to counsel couples (or abused wives for that matter) in crisis.

Maybe someone that is a member can explain how one becomes a bishop and if there a protocol for when they get in over their head in something of this sort. Some might not follow it... but can they/should they be recommending couples to licensed therapists? I know personally the two gals I know where never told to seek help with outside resources...

Most bishops are educated and employed in the world of business, law or medicine. Certainly not professional counseling. Yet, that is the first place a woman goes to for help. (there has been a Domestic Violence study done in Canada on this) By the way, the Canadians are much farther along than we are in studying abuse.

 

[SusanB]

How far from West Valley? Or is it like the other side of the state?

 

[hellolisakitty]

anyone know where this is?

It is just the next suburb over from West Valley. Just a bit to the south. I work in West Valley and sometimes get take out in West Jordan. I get there easily within 10 minutes in decent traffic.

 

[SusanB]

It is just the next suburb over from West Valley. Just a bit to the south. I work in West Valley and sometimes get take out in West Jordan. I get there easily within 10 minutes in decent traffic.

The article said two adults and two children....Wonder what happened?

 

[Dr.Fessel]

I think part of that can be blamed on local media. It is just a fact of life around here... if you are LDS they will somehow tie it to the story. Same thing happened with Elizabeth Smart. If the media does not mention it first then the family does. Just seems to be the Utah thing to do. Sometimes I will watch the news and for no apparent reason they will mention that the person was LDS and I am left scratching my head...

And some of the people above, they might not even be religious, let alone seek out counseling at a church. I know if I ever needed to go to counseling it would be with a therapist... and if anything would ever happen to me they would not be able to tie a religion to me...

But in the end, yes.... it is just another psycho that killed his wife.

Yeah it is hard to seperate the church from this story. Probably 99 percent of the people reporting on it, investigating it and involved in it are Mormon. It will probably be a Mormon that solves it. I also believe some evidence of the crime will be found because they are Mormon.

 

[omegagal]

The article said two adults and two children....Wonder what happened?

SusanB - Want to take an educated guess???

 

[Vegas Bride]

I think part of that can be blamed on local media. It is just a fact of life around here... if you are LDS they will somehow tie it to the story. Same thing happened with Elizabeth Smart. If the media does not mention it first then the family does. Just seems to be the Utah thing to do. Sometimes I will watch the news and for no apparent reason they will mention that the person was LDS and I am left scratching my head...

And some of the people above, they might not even be religious, let alone seek out counseling at a church. I know if I ever needed to go to counseling it would be with a therapist... and if anything would ever happen to me they would not be able to tie a religion to me...

But in the end, yes.... it is just another psycho that killed his wife.

This is very true! Many many times when the local news stations are showing a story about someone i.e. house fire, illness, accident etc, they're somehow able to put a slant on it to show if the people are Mormon or not and actually it seems to me that when they're showing someone to try and get them some support, the people are generally Mormon. dh does not watch certain news channels because they are so slanted towards Mormon issues where if something bad happens and the person who did it is Mormon, the story doesn't get covered.

VB

 

[SusanB]

I think Texas Mist and Passionflower are on to something. Sounds like they have had experiences not unlike Susan or myself....

My theory of what happened is based on what I have read, seen and heard so far on this case as well as personal experiences in the church and with a psychopath. Any licensed clinicians with additional experience with psychopaths, narcissists and abuse please feel free to chime in.

Background: I think around the time Susan had her first baby things she only barely noticed in Josh's personality started becoming more distinct. The control and power issues were now at full force. (Someone on the earlier news report said Susan and Josh seemed to be doing well and were happy when they first moved to the area 5 years ago)
One of the first things an abuser will do is take the woman away from her support system (family in Washington) He has family in Utah. Obviously they did not move there because he had this wonderful, high paying career waiting for him. What he didn't expect is that Susan was strong and well liked and would develop a support system in her new community. It must have driven him wild to see how competent and happy she could find herself, especially without him being the reason for her happiness. After all she was merely an extension of himself as were "his" children.

Over the last couple of months: The power and control issues were getting worse and worse. Susan had made a couple of very smart moves. She had gotten a decent job. Josh had been telling her for some time that if she left, she would never be able to support herself. He probably said "Look at me, I can't even handle a full time job. Do you think a judge is ever going to give you enough support that you could live off it?" The psychopath always underestimates his victim. They may have started out with marital counseling but more than likely the counselor (probably from LDS Family Services) realized after a few interviews, it was an abuse issue not a marital issue. That means that Susan was probably in counseling with a private counselor as well as her bishop. Psychopaths never subcomb to treatment. After all they are smarter and wiser than any professional counselor so Josh would never see a counselor or admit the abuse. Susan was probably put on either anti-depressants, anti-anxiety or sleeping pills or some combination of these. This would give Josh the opportunity to start telling people that Susan "wasn't right" or that she was "unstable". He would love to believe that but no one else was really buying into it. So things started getting worse and worse for Josh. She had to be stopped.

Currently: I think that Susan and Josh had an enormous fight or "power struggle" Saturday night or Sunday morning before church. Josh said he wasn't going to church, Susan went. Her friend Kriisi (sp?) said she didn't see Susan at church but saw her when walking home. I bet Susan was in the bishop's office telling him what had just happened. You DO see your best friends during church at least some time during the 3 hours you attend. Josh knowing his time was about out, made a plan. While Susan was at church, he took Susan's entire bottle of sleeping pills and crushed them, planning to put them in her food at dinner, then leaving with the boys for sledding to come home to find that Susan had killed herself with an overdose of sleeping pills. His plan backfired because as usual Susan messed with the plan. Instead Susan invited someone to come over after church for an early dinner. This drove Josh nuts as he had already crushed all the pills. What if Susan saw all of her pills missing???? So Josh went along with the plan. Very interesting how he didn't serve a casserole but make individual "pancakes" and scrambled eggs. I'll bet you anything that you can not taste medication in eggs or perhaps juice. Then he has to keep checking on her during dinner. This is the point where he starts getting schizoid because of the change of plans. He tells her friend that he's taking the boys sledding to show he's going to be out of the house with the boys for a while hoping that will cover his butte and get her to leave. Susan starts feeling poorly and needs to lie down. The friend leaves and he takes the boys out for a while to let his poor wife die in bed, figuring when he gets home he can put the bottle next to her bed. Only instead, when he left Susan got up out of bed, making it to the living room collapses on the floor where she proceeds to foam at the mouth or vomit. When he comes home he finds her like this. I think he's not the "good dad" as people make him out to be. Psychopaths are too lazy to be good parents. They are controlling parents. Josh would have put the kids either back in the car right away (oldest one up front as he can talk) or put them in a room by themselves while he put Susan in the van and started to clean up. He probably got all that together by 12:30. The oldest child must have known that Susan was in the back of the van, though and probably asked his dad some good questions. (that child and DNA are going to be Susan's saving grace) I think since Josh told reporters he was south and then west of SLC that Josh actually went just the opposite way, either north or east. I also think he pulled off on the side of the road and the oldest child saw "woods" or "trees" in the head lights. Not a forest, not a desert, not a heavy snowstorm but "woods/trees". Meanwhile Josh came around to the back of the van and took Susan's body out and either (must still be an active suicide plan) put her in a large body of water near a bridge or even worst put her in a sewer hole. I do think he's smart and just playing dumb. But I don't think he's brilliant and he's certainly no where near as brilliant as he thinks he is.

Also, I agree with the lip thing. It's almost a smirk of contempt for LE and the press. When he says I just want to find her, I hear him saying "and you won't find her". Listen and watch that interview by his car again. Seems like he's just evil and taunting the press.

Omega, again right on the money. I bet my bottom dollar that's pretty much how it happened. Awesome analysis:dance:

 

[hellolisakitty]

This is very true! Many many times when the local news stations are showing a story about someone i.e. house fire, illness, accident etc, they're somehow able to put a slant on it to show if the people are Mormon or not and actually it seems to me that when they're showing someone to try and get them some support, the people are generally Mormon. dh does not watch certain news channels because they are so slanted towards Mormon issues where if something bad happens and the person who did it is Mormon, the story doesn't get covered.

VB

KSL by any chance? :waitasec:

 

[SusanB]

SusanB - Want to take an educated guess???

Girl, I don't even want to go there, but you know what I'm thinking!

 

[harleysnana]

Snip by me
Seems like he's just evil and taunting the press.

I think this is how it happened also....
other than we don’t know if they were Susan’s pills…
they could have been his!

 

[Vegas Bride]

KSL by any chance? :waitasec:

Wow how did you know????

:waitasec:

VB