UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #4

[Dal Gal]

That's right. He would have had to have one to get married there. I haven't read that he'd lost it, but I guess it's likely. Church attendance is one of the requirements for keeping it.

If I'm not mistaken (I'm not Mormon), isn't tithing 10% of your income another requirement? That couldn't have been easy, given their financial situation.

 

[DomCasual]

If I'm not mistaken (I'm not Mormon), isn't tithing 10% of your income another requirement? That couldn't have been easy, given their financial situation.

You're not mistaken - that's a requirement.

 

[Texas Mist]

That's right. He would have had to have one to get married there. I haven't read that he'd lost it, but I guess it's likely. Church attendance is one of the requirements for keeping it.

Supposedly, getting his temple recommend was required by Susan -- that makes me think he 'lost it':

Petersen says, “By the end of the year, he needed to be going to church full time, and by their anniversary, he needed to have his temple recommend.” Peteresen says Susan took those goals very seriously. He says, “If he wasn't there, that she was going to divorce him and take the house and the kids.”

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/sl...was-preparing-for/6ycFDFkrykGPjeoBZ7M3RQ.cspx

Another question -- if he had it to get married in the Temple, how would he lose it?


ETA -- can someone lose their temple recommend if they stop going? NM-- I see DomCasual answered that....are there other things that would cause someone to lose it?

 

[kiki the parrot]

Cell Phone Notes Could Provide Answers

SALT LAKE CITY (ABC4 News) - A prepaid cell phone Josh Powell purchased at Walmart could provide details as to where Powell went while racking up hundreds of miles in a rental car. A note has also surfaced that was written about a year and a half ago. Susan said if she ended up dead it "wouldn't be suicide".

Tim Petersen, Powell's neighbor tells ABC 4 news that Powell came over to their house on Wednesday evening, just days after Susan disappeared and told them about a new phone he bought and asked for a ride to pick up his minivan. Petersen said, "We asked about Susan but he didn't want to talk about her. He only wanted to talk about his new clothes and phone."

West Valley City Police confirmed they are looking into phone and financial records. However, they didn't confirm exactly who's records they are reviewing. But the cell phone provider could potentially pinpoint Powell's whereabouts during that 24 hour period.

(full article at link)

http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/sto...nswers-into-Susan/n8xTFRQLOkKihW2iYi34wA.cspx

http://www.examiner.com/x-22460-Sea...ll-purchased-at-Walmart-could-provide-details

arrot:

 

[kiki the parrot]

Still praying and hoping against hope that cell phone records will lead LE to Susan...:crossfingers: rayer:

arrot:

 

[DomCasual]

Supposedly, getting his temple recommend was required by Susan -- that makes me think he 'lost it':

Petersen says, “By the end of the year, he needed to be going to church full time, and by their anniversary, he needed to have his temple recommend.” Peteresen says Susan took those goals very seriously. He says, “If he wasn't there, that she was going to divorce him and take the house and the kids.”

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/sl...was-preparing-for/6ycFDFkrykGPjeoBZ7M3RQ.cspx

Another question -- if he had it to get married in the Temple, how would he lose it?


ETA -- can someone lose their temple recommend if they stop going? NM-- I see DomCasual answered that....are there other things that would cause someone to lose it?

Every two years, your temple recommend expires. To renew it, you have interviews with a bishop (lay minister of a ward - about 500 - 600 members) and a stake president (lay minister over approximately 5-8 wards). Those interviews are scripted with about ten questions. Are you chaste? Are you honest? Do you attend church? Do you pay tithing? You answer on the honor system - nobody really checks to see if you're telling the truth.

I hadn't seen the quote from the neighbor, but that makes sense. His temple recommend probably expired, and he just knew he wouldn't be able to get it renewed.

 

[passionflower]

When is their anniversary? That seemed to be his deadline!

 

[CCup]

Me too sniperacer. Remember it was raining/snowing that night so things would be wet.

I'm just catching up after being gone a day. Isn't Jovanna a widow or single lady with children?

According to her facebook page, she is married.

 

[Dal Gal]

I just read an interesting message board on a site for ex-Mormons. With apologies to you active Mormons, my intention isn't to spread propoganda from disgruntled former members. However, the very requirements for temple recommendation are listed throughout:

Mormons who wish to attend Mormon temples must pass a two stage worthiness interview with male, local leaders that involves acknowledging the authority of local and general Mormon leaders, and answering personal questions related to matters of belief and behavior. Here are a few of the questions:

• Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?;
• Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?;
• Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators?;
• Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?;
• Do you live the law of chastity?;
• Do you support, affiliate with, or agree with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?;
• Do you strive to keep the covenants you have made, to attend your sacrament and other meetings, and to keep your life in harmony with the laws and commandments of the gospel?;
• Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?;
• Are you a full-tithe payer?;
• Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?;
• Do you wear the garment [temple underwear] both night and day as instructed in the endowment and in accordance with the covenant you made in the temple?

A “temple recommend” or permit to enter the temple will only be issued if these questions are answered to the satisfaction of the Mormon leaders who conduct the two separate interviews required in this regard. As I write this, I recall for the first time in many years the “Alice down the rabbit hole” experience it initially was for me to ask these questions of the adult members of the Mormon congregation over which I presided as Bishop. But, it is amazing what we can come to regard as “normal” after we have done it for a while.

To keep a continuous temple recommend this process must be repeated at least ever other year. Similarly invasive interviews are conducted every six months with teenagers between the ages of 12 and 18 for the purpose of monitoring their "worthiness". Parents are encouraged to conduct the same kind of interviews with the children. The effect of such regular acknowledgment of the one's personal submission to Mormon authority is in my view a large part of what makes Mormons as uncritically submissive to authority of many types as they are.

See more at http://www.exmormon.org/mormon/mormon355.htm

 

[nursebeeme]

I believe that Josh's hand condition may have been more from direct exposure to cold, rather than just wind-burn. He may have been handling snow (moving it, digging).

When Josh went on the alleged over-night camping trip with the boys, his time to actually hide the body may have been limited (because he couldn't leave the boys alone for too long). I believe he may have just thought if he placed her far enough away, they wouldn't find her.

When he was dumb-struck (imo) when he returned and found out Susan's disappearance had already been reported to LE and they started asking tough questions about where he'd been, he realized that if she was found he would be the first person they look at. After he left his kids at his sis' house, I believe he went back to the scene and either tried to bury her or as others have said, put her in a mine or cave. I say tried to bury her, because I'm not sure he would have been able to find an area where the ground wasn't already frozen. Whatever, I believe he did go back to CONCEAL the body.

I only hope he gets a conscience and comes forward and tells LE where she is.

JMHO
fran

PS..........I bet Josh is in shock since he's learned that Susan left written notes at her work. I bet he never saw that coming! If anything, imo, IF he does turn himself in, it will be because of the notes and he realizes there's no way he's going to get away with this. fran

post of the day!!!

I agree with everything you said! I also note how quickly he rented a car...

"We're aware that a car was rented," said Capt. Tom McLachlan. "That would have been Monday evening the seventh. That's after he returned from his camping trip." http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_14051696

and from the airport! hmmm.. if he had the car for 24 hours and rented it the evening/night he got home from camping that is HINKY!!! I am sure he went back to her body to continue hiding it/clean up the scene.. as there was no more cleaning up he could do at home as LE was all over it!

The more I learn about this guy the more I want to just deck him!!!! Seriously!!!!!

Burning question: who took him to the airport to rent the car? I would love to know this!

 

[DomCasual]

According to her facebook page, she is married.

I kind of laugh at the Jovanna speculation. I see her as just a motherly woman who was trying to be helpful. She seems to have a bit of a meddlesome quality to her, obviously. And she definitely likes the attention she's getting from the media. But I don't get the sense she's in any way implicit in Susan's disappearance.

She reminds me of a lady I knew a few years back. She even looks a lot like her. I loved this lady - she was like a grandmother to my kids. My brother-in-law died, and left a widow and three small kids. This lady completely took them under her wing for a few years. She was incredibly meddlesome, but she really had a good heart. And the only way I knew her was through business.

 

[Dal Gal]

When is their anniversary? That seemed to be his deadline!

According to the biography of Susan that Shelby Gifford provided at the family presser, they were married April 6, 2001 at LDS Portland Temple. So it was upcoming but not right around the corner. However, by not attending church with his family, Susan certainly would have seen that Josh wasn't making the efforts that she expected from him. JMO.

 

[lemonmoussetart]

So Josh rented the car Monday evening. Wife missing, police everywhere, and you're worried about transportation? Wouldn't want to stay home by the phone. Sister, BIL, and other friends would have gladly helped with that. Unless you needed to be ALONE.

He can easily explain that away though by saying that he was looking for Susan.
Oh wait, no he can't. As he has already stated in interviews "I wouldn't know where to begin looking."

I feel that Susan is not all that far away. He had 2 sleeping kids in the car. While the motion of cars put them to sleep, stops and bumpy roads can also wake them up. He would want to make sure that Susan was out of the van long before time for kids to wake.

 

[omegagal]

This takes me back to the "Blue Cap Interview" and something I've been wondering for awhile. Does anyone know if Josh is left or right-handed?

During that interview he was tugging at his hat with his left hand. Even when he pulled down the right side of the cap (it looked awkward to me), he went over with his left hand. Think that would be very strange for someone who is right-handed. Unless they didn't want that hand on camera.

I've seen him use his right hand. Also in the church breakfast photo, camera's in the right hand.

 

[DomCasual]

According to the biography of Susan that Shelby Gifford provided at the family presser, they were married April 6, 2001 at LDS Portland Temple. So it was upcoming but not right around the corner. However, by not attending church with his family, Susan certainly would have seen that Josh wasn't making the efforts that she expected from him. JMO.

That seems pretty spot-on. He doesn't go to church. She gets angry and rides him about it, saying he's not keeping his promise to her. They get in a big argument that is interrupted by Jovanna coming by to help with the crochet. He broods over it, and decides to get back at her. He's been thinking about doing it for awhile, anyway. On impulse, he follows through on what he had sort of thought were just fantasies - poisoning her. So, he offers to make dinner - something simple and easy - and easy to poison.

 

[emmcee]

Random thoughts:

I tend to not think he burned her body, mainly b/c it would take a very long time and produce smoke which someone might see.

From the very beginning I have thought that her body is not terribly far from home. No particular reason, just the ol' gut feeling.

I wonder if there are outdoor hobby clubs in the area that are familiar with old mine shafts, old wells, etc. - like search and rescue groups, scouts, 4-wheeler groups, hikers, campers, etc. Seems like those types of places should be searched within a reasonable radius of the home. And then widen the radius gradually to check more of these types of places. Or maybe that's not logical to do this time of year?

 

[omegagal]

I read that Josh & Susan were married in the Portland Temple...From what I've read, a couple (and those attending) must have a temple recommend. ( http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/mormon/weddings/ )

So if Josh had to have a temple recommend for a temple wedding did he lose it?

Yes he would have gotten it taken away from him for "behavior unbecoming of a priesthood holder in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints". Or when time came for a new temple recommend interview with the bishop and stake president, Josh decided not to make that appointment. My opinion, he had it taken away from him. As far as the comment on Tithing, I don't think Josh would have a hard time tithing 10% of 1400 for the year.... it must be for some other reason... abuse, (my bet), a felony conviction, drinking alcohol, smoking, drugs, etc, etc. It wasn't because "he didn't come to church". People don't go to church when there's one of the other reasons not to go (see above).

 

[oh_gal]

I kind of laugh at the Jovanna speculation. I see her as just a motherly woman who was trying to be helpful. She seems to have a bit of a meddlesome quality to her, obviously. And she definitely likes the attention she's getting from the media. But I don't get the sense she's in any way implicit in Susan's disappearance.

She reminds me of a lady I knew a few years back. She even looks a lot like her. I loved this lady - she was like a grandmother to my kids. My brother-in-law died, and left a widow and three small kids. This lady completely took them under her wing for a few years. She was incredibly meddlesome, but she really had a good heart. And the only way I knew her was through business.

I don't think she had anything to do with Susan's disappearance, either except, perhaps, for possibly withholding information because..........she's got a thing for him. She's older, possibly lonely, and here's this young guy who, if he were looking for someone to be a pawn, would just have to throw her a couple crumbs of attention, and...viola, he's got a supporter for life.

 

[Texas Mist]

I hope the police have checked to see if Joshy has recently purchased any cement mix -- like Quikcrete.....it sets up quickly & it also can irritate/burn your skin.

Maybe he made some anchors ala Scott Peterson.

Or checked to see if he bought lime....it will also irritate the skin.

 

[omegagal]

I don't think she had anything to do with Susan's disappearance, either except, perhaps, for possibly withholding information because..........she's got a thing for him. She's older, possibly lonely, and here's this young guy who, if he were looking for someone to be a pawn, would just have to throw her a couple crumbs of attention, and...viola, he's got a supporter for life.

I think someone mentioned from her FB page, JoVanna is in her late 40s. My opinion, she looks at least in her late 50s. She's probably had a hard life. She has I think 7 children. Doesn't appear to be educated or financially well off.... just a tough time...