UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #5

[Curious Me]

In our area also a man is missing and we are searching.........mountains, woods, deep snow and below 0-20 degree weather.
I just don't understand no searching.........
glad 1 person did arial search and found the man the other day.
Maybe more will follow his lead.

There should be more searching being done for Susan. It doesn't sound like people are being encouraged enough to search, as in walk around looking. There's only so much one can do to find Susan on computer. What's up with that? :waitasec:

Oh, and I'm sorry, but I don't need to see photos to be...I already am...
anti-Josh. When a man runs to another state while his wife is still missing, I'd call his own actions anti-Josh. :trout:

 

[kiki the parrot]

Good point. It will be interesting to watch to see how the new ward handles this if he does attend. I wouldn't want him in my ward either! Maybe daddy will kick him out?

You mean SP kick him out of his house if JP attends and takes boys? I would not be the least surprised to learn daddy suggested it for "expediency" and "propriety's" sake ie concealing motives until things "die down." It looks "befitting" of the grieving widower and afterall, wouldn't wanna be too obvious now...

arrot:

 

[SuziQ]

OMG!! They found you without you giving your forwarding address to? Do you think they found out via the post office? ie sending you mail that was returned to them with your new address? Thats sort of creepy, no offense. Honest. I have just never heard of such a thing.

It was very creepy to me when I moved to Utah many many years ago. I briefly worked as a sales agent for a huge apartment complex. One day my boss asked me to print off the renters names and addresses and send them to the church offices downtown. I thought WTF? It really bothered me. Now I just look at them like the IRS. lol.

 

[amm]

Whoa!! So the church does it, whether you want them to or not? So if they hadn't learned where he was moving to, what then? I mean, they wouldn't be able to transfer any records without a residential address :waitasec:

Course, I'm still speechless by the 'assignment' of a ward you 'must' attend for services and not being able to attend any other one. For being one big church, it sure seems divided.

Records are transferred by a ward clerk. Sometimes, the transfer is very quick and sometimes it isn't. Anytime we've moved, we've given our new address to our ward clerk in the ward that we are leaving and they send our records on. IMO, someone needs to give the new address for the records to be transferred. In this case, I would guess that Josh probably gave his info to the clerk in UT.

People are "assigned" to wards based on geographic boundaries. You can attend a different ward for different reasons but your records will remain with your home ward unless there is a good reason to be reassigned to a different ward. Because the doctrines of the LDS church are uniform and not subject to a pastor's personal beliefs and interpretation of scripture, there really isn't a division -- the church is the same wherever you go but the people are different. Does that make sense?

 

[AlexisFresca]

(bbm) Fresca we've explored alot of this thruout these five threads but to recap... 3-hour "sledding" trip was taken earlier that eve (approx. 8:30p-11:30p IIRC). It is my personal belief Susan may have died during this timeframe due to ingesting something JP gave her (he prepared dinner but unless very slowacting, he'd more likely have done this after Jovanna left). Others believe it was not until Josh and the boys returned that there may have been some sort of heated argument. (One of the reasons I don't believe this is either of the boys could've easily awoken and become witnesses to any type of angry altercation which is more risky than killing her silently, effortlessly, w/out any of them--including JP--having to be present or engage in confrontation.) It's also my belief there may very well have been an accessory after the fact. I can speculate there might even have been some talk beforehand but I think that's much harder to prove than would physical movements of anyone who may have assisted w cover-up and disposal. (That's MOO, probably still a very small club at the moment.)

arrot:

Thank you for your patience in recapping this for me.

Instead of a loud fight, she may have also calmly said she wanted out because the untimatum wasn't met. He may have just lost it and choked her before she knew what hit her. She may have been conscious/after waking up, but still groggy from whatever drugs he gave her.

I wish there was a floorplan of their home. I think it would aid in possible scenarios as to how this happened. Maybe the discussion started in the bedroom and ended in the living room with her quick death?

And if death was by poison, why clean the carpet with a cleaner? Maybe she felt sick and tried to get to a place she could vomit and stumbled on the LR floor and vomited there instead?

Whats also interesting about this case is that women are more likely than men to use poison as a means of killing someone. I can't remember exact statistical numbers; men preferred guns/knives or strangling, but women preferred poisoning due to being less messy.

 

[AmandaReckonwith]

LOL! What page?

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/Susan Powell/Inspired Scrapbook Designs/

 

[Dwight]

So "nothing wrong" w helping the only POI in a missing person (and as you so shrewdly predict, what will likely become a HOMICIDE) investigation, leave the state after refusing to answer LE's questions...
:waitress:
If Josh or anyone else were the least concerned about his children--innocent victims--then from the "KIDS PERSPECTIVE" what they should be DOING is encouraging Josh to STICK AROUND AND TELL LE W/E IT IS THEY NEED TO KNOW TO HELP LOCATE THEIR MOTHER. Or don't Susan's boys even deserve to ever learn the truth and say goodbye to THEIR MOTHER.

Now, re it being *LE's* job to conduct the investigation, on that we can agree. JMHO

arrot:

Well, here is the thing: Josh has told the WVC Police that he "doesn't know" what happened to Susan, and that he was "gone camping" the night she disappeared. Since then he has lawyered up and invoked his fifth amendment right to not incriminate himself. That's a constitutional right that a lot of people don't seem to agree with, but nonetheless it will be there in the event you should ever wish to invoke it.

You and I and everyone knows that returning to talk with LE will only result in them badgering him and threatening him until he confesses. Josh has his reasons for not wanting to confess, but if he is guilty, probably the reason he doesn't want to confess yet is he doesn't want to go to jail just yet. Can't say I blame him, since it will likely be for life when he does go.

re "what they should be DOING is encouraging Josh to STICK AROUND AND TELL LE W/E IT IS THEY NEED TO KNOW TO HELP LOCATE THEIR MOTHER." Well, if I were close to JP, I would hesitate to get in the guy's face too much. He's already told the police "all he knows". To suggest that JP's friends are obligated to get in his face and so much as call him a liar is easy to say from afar, probably not easy to do in actuality.

 

[AlexisFresca]

Oh you bet they have Josh's dad's address, especially if Josh's dad was a member at one time. I don't look at it as being divided, but being highly organized. It's one of their claims to fame. Geneology records is one example. There are usually so many wards its more convenient to go to the one in your area, which is what you are usually assigned. They aren't huge buildings and there is a need to keep one ward from being more overcrowded than another one. I'm sure it's less of a burden for that Bishop too who is responsible for attending to his members needs.

ETA: also engaged couples can bounce around back and forth to each others wards, though a bishop would prefer you chose one.

My husband is big on geneology and though not a Mormon, has appreciated their records that have aided his geneology searches. He also appreciated that they didn't try to prostelytize (sp?) while he was doing his research.

I totally understand their logic in their set up and the various wards. For me it would not work, in that I would not want to attend any church if I felt I wasn't getting something out of the sermon, felt I wasn't connecting with the pastor or getting anything out of the message.

Does the Mormon church allow various topics each Sunday at different wards or does each ward preach the same sermon at all locations?

 

[kiki the parrot]

There should be more searching being done for Susan. It doesn't sound like people are being encouraged enough to search, as in walk around looking. There's only so much one can do to find Susan on computer. What's up with that? :waitasec:

Oh, and I'm sorry, but I don't need to see photos to be...I already am...
anti-Josh. When a man runs to another state while his wife is still missing, I'd call his own actions anti-Josh. :trout:

IMO a photo can be neither "anti" or "pro" (unless it has been retouched, photoshopped, otherwise altered or captioned).

It is what it is what it is. His face speaks volumes, worth a thousand words.

arrot:

 

[AlexisFresca]

Here is something I have been kicking around since the start of this case. Alot of times when one spouse goes into home sales the other spouse will go into banking and the loan department. It gives the Realtor an edge over the competition. I wonder if that was the plan at first and Susan could not get the job needed and maybe that caused some real contention and Josh blamed Susan for his poor sales.

That whole thing with his job instability makes me wonder. There is a discrepancy somewhere in his resume, unless the trucking company job is the first one he got since he stopped being a realtor. Does anyone know when that was? Was she always a stock broker, even before moving to Utah?

 

[AlexisFresca]

It was very creepy to me when I moved to Utah many many years ago. I briefly worked as a sales agent for a huge apartment complex. One day my boss asked me to print off the renters names and addresses and send them to the church offices downtown. I thought WTF? It really bothered me. Now I just look at them like the IRS. lol.

WOW!!
What happens if say, ::: gasp ::: any of the renters is not a Mormon? I mean, there must be some non-mormons in Utah, no?

 

[AlexisFresca]

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/mm166/crankycrankerson/susan powell/inspired scrapbook designs/

roflmao!!!

 

[Breathe]

Is it too personal to ask what is on a member's record? (I assume their name, address, if they're in good standing with the ward, leadership roles, previous ward, etc.) Thank you!

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Well, here is the thing: Josh has told the WVC Police that he "doesn't know" what happened to Susan, and that he was "gone camping" the night she disappeared. Since then he has lawyered up and invoked his fifth amendment right to not incriminate himself. That's a constitutional right that a lot of people don't seem to agree with, but nonetheless it will be there in the event you should ever wish to invoke it.

You and I and everyone knows that returning to talk with LE will only result in them badgering him and threatening him until he confesses. Josh has his reasons for not wanting to confess, but if he is guilty, probably the reason he doesn't want to confess yet is he doesn't want to go to jail just yet. Can't say I blame him, since it will likely be for life when he does go.

re "what they should be DOING is encouraging Josh to STICK AROUND AND TELL LE W/E IT IS THEY NEED TO KNOW TO HELP LOCATE THEIR MOTHER." Well, if I were close to JP, I would hesitate to get in the guy's face too much. He's already told the police "all he knows". To suggest that JP's friends are obligated to get in his face and so much as call him a liar is easy to say from afar, probably not easy to do in actuality.

We know Josh went in with his lawyer and refused to to take the police to the spot where he was camping. He had no obligation to talk to them and he could end the interview at anytime. They could not badger and threaten him in front of the lawyer or the lawyer would just say that is it.

If a friend of mine told me the nonsense story Josh is spouting they would not be a friend anymore period.

 

[SuziQ]

WOW!!
What happens if say, ::: gasp ::: any of the renters is not a Mormon? I mean, there must be some non-mormons in Utah, no?

I think I remember asking the same question and the answer was they were only interested in keeping track of their members.

About the sermon's I have no idea since I've never been part of the church. A member posting here can answer that better than me.

 

[gwenabob]

My husband is big on geneology and though not a Mormon, has appreciated their records that have aided his geneology searches. He also appreciated that they didn't try to prostelytize (sp?) while he was doing his research.

I totally understand their logic in their set up and the various wards. For me it would not work, in that I would not want to attend any church if I felt I wasn't getting something out of the sermon, felt I wasn't connecting with the pastor or getting anything out of the message.

Does the Mormon church allow various topics each Sunday at different wards or does each ward preach the same sermon at all locations?

We don't have 'pastors,' and all our clergy, or 'bishops' are lay clergy, meaning they are unpaid volunteers who usually serve for about 5 years. They hold regular jobs and are just regular people. The Bishop leads the ward, but is not required to 'preach' a sermon every week. The members of the ward take turns speaking on various subjects that are suggested by the bishop. Perhaps there will be a theme each month and they may choose a subject from that theme. Today in our ward, three women each spoke on "choices" and how we make good choices and learn from our bad choices. It was a very good meeting.

 

[kiki the parrot]

re "what they should be DOING is encouraging Josh to STICK AROUND AND TELL LE W/E IT IS THEY NEED TO KNOW TO HELP LOCATE THEIR MOTHER." Well, if I were close to JP, I would hesitate to get in the guy's face too much. He's already told the police "all he knows". To suggest that JP's friends are obligated to get in his face and so much as call him a liar is easy to say from afar, probably not easy to do in actuality.

(snip, bbm) Thanks Dwight. Here's the Other Thing. I'm pretty d*mn sure there's something between being "obligated to get in his face and so much as call him a liar....."

...and rolling up the trucks, the sleeves, the dollys, professional packing cartons, hot chocolate and marshmallows, and the Royal Red Carpet Treatment for this "suffering" POI so HE CAN LEAVE TOWN W/OUT EVER BREAKING A SWEAT WHILE HE IS REFUSING LAW ENFORCEMENT THE INTERVIEW THEY WANT W JOSH.

So they're too skeerd--ALL 20 of these CHURCH MEMBERS and furniture movers--to instead ASK JOSH TO COOPERATE?? He can still refuse, but at least they're not enabling and falling over themselves to ASSIST THE *ONLY* PERSON LE HAS ANY INTEREST IN SPEAKING W. THEY CAN NOT VERIFY ANY OF HIS PATHETIC ALIBIS, AND HERE EVERYONE IS BENDING OVER BACKWARDS TO CODDLE "POOR, HURTING JOSHY."

But that's just *my" thing. To each their own. JMVHO

arrot:

 

[lemonmoussetart]

roflmao!!!

Fresca, am getting page not found

 

[gwenabob]

Is it too personal to ask what is on a member's record? (I assume their name, address, if they're in good standing with the ward, leadership roles, previous ward, etc.) Thank you!

Not much. Your name, date of birth, date of baptism, date of marriage, membership record #, office of priesthood held. That is about it.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Fresca, am getting page not found

Go here I had the same trouble. The shortcut is not carrying over.


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