UT -Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 - #5

[amm]

We don't have 'pastors,' and all our clergy, or 'bishops' are lay clergy, meaning they are unpaid volunteers who usually serve for about 5 years. They hold regular jobs and are just regular people. The Bishop leads the ward, but is not required to 'preach' a sermon every week. The members of the ward take turns speaking on various subjects that are suggested by the bishop. Perhaps there will be a theme each month and they may choose a subject from that theme. Today in our ward, three women each spoke on "choices" and how we make good choices and learn from our bad choices. It was a very good meeting.

Good summary, Gwenabob. I just want to add that we have lesson manuals for Sunday school and our other meetings (such as the women's Relief Society.) For example, this year we are studying the Old Testament in Sunday School. All across the world, members will be studying using the same manuals. Different people may emphasize different aspects of the lesson. When my husband travels and attends a different ward than I, we can still discuss what we learned.

 

[Dwight]

Yes said this all along mystic... they know the 'status quo' is the arrangement the courts will favor thus where kids will most likely go. JP and SP have a plan--it's no longer Plan A due to early reporting and discovery of evidence--but they're still working it. And the object of their game is and always has been to establish custody of boys w Powells (eventually severing their LDS ties altogether). Any actions in the meantime which appear to contrary (taking boys to church eg) are strictly showmanship for immediate purposes of concealing JP's true motive, and salvaging SP's master plan and agenda. JMHO

arrot:

Even if all of those things are true, to me it seems obvious that the Coxes (the boys' maternal grandparents) will have much better opportunities to visit the boys with the boys up in WA versus stuck down in Utah - And if JP did go confess, the kids would be stuck down in UT with only JP's mother and sister down there. It is clear to me that being closer to the Coxes is better for the boys.

 

[kiki the parrot]

Even if all of those things are true, to me it seems obvious that the Coxes (the boys' maternal grandparents) will have much better opportunities to visit the boys with the boys up in WA versus stuck down in Utah - And if JP did go confess, the kids would be stuck down in UT with only JP's mother and sister down there. It is clear to me that being closer to the Coxes is better for the boys.

(u/bbm) And it's clear to *me* that being WITH the Coxes--fulltime, and far FAR AWAY from the POI LE is characterizing as non-cooperative known to have been w their MOTHER when she was last seen alive--is what's truly BEST for the boys. JMO

arrot:

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Even if all of those things are true, to me it seems obvious that the Coxes (the boys' maternal grandparents) will have much better opportunities to visit the boys with the boys up in WA versus stuck down in Utah - And if JP did go confess, the kids would be stuck down in UT with only JP's mother and sister down there. It is clear to me that being closer to the Coxes is better for the boys.

I don't think the boys are safe with Josh at all. He is looking terrible in his pictures during the move and I don't think the situation with the Cox's being able to see the kids will last much longer.

 

[Gin]

Thanks Dwight. Here's the Other Thing. I'm pretty d*mn sure there's something between being "obligated to get in his face and so much as call him a liar....."

...and rolling up the trucks, the sleeves, the dollys, professional packing cartons, hot chocolate and marshmallows, and the Royal Red Carpet Treatment for this "suffering" POI so HE CAN LEAVE TOWN W/OUT EVER BREAKING A SWEAT WHEN HE REFUSED LAW ENFORCEMENT THE INTERVIEW THEY WANT W JOSH.

So they're too skeerd--ALL 20 of these CHURCH MEMBERS and furniture movers--to instead ASK JOSH TO COOPERATE?? He can still refuse, but at least they're not enabling and falling over themselves to ASSIST THE *ONLY* PERSON LE HAS ANY INTEREST IN SPEAKING W. THEY CAN NOT VERIFY ANY OF HIS PATHETIC ALIBIS, AND HERE EVERYONE IS BENDING OVER BACKWARDS TO CODDLE "POOR, HURTING JOSHY."

But that's just *my" thing. To each their own. JMVHO

arrot:

Kiki, I agree with you--In my opinion what went on at that house last weekend is bold faced ENABLING.


And readers should know I'm not bothered by those that disagree. Those that helped aren't automatically virtuous, those that would keep their distance aren't automatically virtuous, either. This is a big world, there is room for lots of opinions. Me? I'd let Josh do a bit of sweating. It might encourage him to do the right thing. Right now, maybe all the patting and hand holding is doing a great job of helping him hold out.

 

[Dwight]

Just twisting the knife, insult to injury IMO.



You know curious that's a good thought, but I'm inclined to believe he's just putting out the word to avail himself of more "serving" from the community, donations of time and materials will save JP tons of money and IMO just enable him to turn a profit on his and Susan's house... ETA or alternately, rent it for more income... :furious:

arrot:

LOL...do I detect just a hint of bitterness there?

 

[Cher352]

Even if all of those things are true, to me it seems obvious that the Coxes (the boys' maternal grandparents) will have much better opportunities to visit the boys with the boys up in WA versus stuck down in Utah - And if JP did go confess, the kids would be stuck down in UT with only JP's mother and sister down there. It is clear to me that being closer to the Coxes is better for the boys.

And won't it be easier for the Coxes to petition for custody of the boys with them living in the same state versus another state when/or if JP is arrested?

 

[kiki the parrot]

Thank you for your patience in recapping this for me.

Instead of a loud fight, she may have also calmly said she wanted out because the untimatum wasn't met. He may have just lost it and choked her before she knew what hit her. She may have been conscious/after waking up, but still groggy from whatever drugs he gave her.

I wish there was a floorplan of their home. I think it would aid in possible scenarios as to how this happened. Maybe the discussion started in the bedroom and ended in the living room with her quick death?

And if death was by poison, why clean the carpet with a cleaner? Maybe she felt sick and tried to get to a place she could vomit and stumbled on the LR floor and vomited there instead?

Whats also interesting about this case is that women are more likely than men to use poison as a means of killing someone. I can't remember exact statistical numbers; men preferred guns/knives or strangling, but women preferred poisoning due to being less messy.

(u/bbm) Yes. That is exactly what I think happened while he and the boys were gone "sledding" or "killing time" waiting for poison to take effect. Oh, guess ya musta missed this post too lol... :crazy: JMO

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4608763&postcount=702"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - UT-Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City; thread #4[/ame]

arrot:

 

[Dwight]

kiki, I've never heard those sayings. I love how you express yourself. I also feel a need to say that many people confuse what "unconditional love" is. Not holding someone accountable is not unconditional love, IMO. For those who have read the Bible, there are plenty of examples that show God doesn't let you get away with something, and there are conditions attached to his mercy and love. I say this for those who are caught in a dilemna of trying to give unconditional love to an unremorseful person - be honest with yourself. It's okay if you are not a saint, and your love has some conditions.

I agree that JP's father should indeed encourage JP to tell him the truth. And who is to say he has not? We have no idea what he has said to him.

All we have heard so far from Josh is that he has insisted he doesn't know where his wife disappeared to. How can a parent force one of their children to confess? The answer is they cannot! I watched an interrogation of a young girl, like 15 yrs old, in a police interview room, and her mother said EVERYTHING possible to convince the girl to tell the police the truth, and the girl insisted she had. She looked her mother in the face and swore she was telling the whole truth. At the end of the interview she was even booked into jail for insisting on a point that the police knew to be false by the evidence! This was in an episode of the First 48.

Over a month later the girl finally called the police and told them that yes, she actually had saw her bf shoot the victim.

Once again, if there was evidence of guilt, then that is one thing, but when there is no evidence, but only a suspicious story, it's a difficult position for people close to JP. IMO

 

[Dwight]

I don't think the boys are safe with Josh at all. He is looking terrible in his pictures during the move and I don't think the situation with the Cox's being able to see the kids will last much longer.

(bbm) ummm.. care to share your source of information? or is this just baseless speculation?

 

[kiki the parrot]

LOL...do I detect just a hint of bitterness there?

It's not bitterness Dwight, I've just never liked to see a (presumed) perp profit from their crimes--and when someone who is refusing to walk uprightly--to be forthright w LE--continues to bask in the generosity, goodwill, and grace of people who love SUSAN, exploiting the relationships and friendships forged w/in the church, and attended alone, by SUSAN, fostered and nurtured by SUSAN, and those who love her--that just strikes me as shameless, and reprehensible... that's all. JMO

arrot:

 

[Dr.Fessel]

(bbm) ummm.. care to share your source of information? or is this just baseless speculation?

I never said I had a source and I don't speculate without a base. Care to rephrase your question?

 

[kiki the parrot]

Ya know doc I just always know a post isn't gonna be real warm or fuzzy when it starts off w "ummm"... where's the love, lol

arrot:

 

[Dwight]

(snip, bbm) Thanks Dwight. Here's the Other Thing. I'm pretty d*mn sure there's something between being "obligated to get in his face and so much as call him a liar....."

...and rolling up the trucks, the sleeves, the dollys, professional packing cartons, hot chocolate and marshmallows, and the Royal Red Carpet Treatment for this "suffering" POI so HE CAN LEAVE TOWN W/OUT EVER BREAKING A SWEAT WHILE HE IS REFUSING LAW ENFORCEMENT THE INTERVIEW THEY WANT W JOSH.

So they're too skeerd--ALL 20 of these CHURCH MEMBERS and furniture movers--to instead ASK JOSH TO COOPERATE?? He can still refuse, but at least they're not enabling and falling over themselves to ASSIST THE *ONLY* PERSON LE HAS ANY INTEREST IN SPEAKING W. THEY CAN NOT VERIFY ANY OF HIS PATHETIC ALIBIS, AND HERE EVERYONE IS BENDING OVER BACKWARDS TO CODDLE "POOR, HURTING JOSHY."

But that's just *my" thing. To each their own. JMVHO

arrot:

I can't explain the "Josh is suffering" comment from the dude just as I can't explain why Kiirsi posted to me on her blog that "it's not that I can't believe Josh killed Susan, it's just that I have my own reasons for believing he didn't."

I really think that someone earlier really hit the nail on the head when they said that we all want to believe that we are good judges of character, and good judges of who we regard as our friends - it must be terribly difficult to, without any actual evidence to the contrary, just turn those assumptions upside down. To an outsider it looks like that river in Egypt: just plain old denial.

But as for helping him pack - I think I would have helped - not to *help*, but to see what I could see, maybe pick up some clues that the police may have seen also, or missed, or whatever. Sniff the wet spot, I dunno. I'm just curious and want to see things for myself. But doing so would not mean that I was supporting or enabling JP's story, because he alone is responsible for his actions.

 

[kiki the parrot]

I agree that JP's father should indeed encourage JP to tell him the truth. And who is to say he has not? We have no idea what he has said to him...

Once again, if there was evidence of guilt, then that is one thing, but when there is no evidence, but only a suspicious story, it's a difficult position for people close to JP. IMO

(snip) Nope. Not difficult at all. Some of these people never really knew him. I'm quite certain they didn't--and still don't.

And the only thing SP's been worried about is how it makes HIM look--not one finger would he lift, not one word of concern for his DIL. He made his feelings known long ago. JMO

arrot:

 

[kiki the parrot]

But as for helping him pack - I think I would have helped - not to *help*, but to see what I could see, maybe pick up some clues that the police may have seen also, or missed, or whatever. Sniff the wet spot, I dunno. I'm just curious and want to see things for myself. But doing so would not mean that I was supporting or enabling JP's story, because he alone is responsible for his actions.

(snip) Make no mistake--it's true what they say, you know. "If you aren't part of the solution..."

arrot:

 

[Doctorwoof]

We did here from Josh Powell’s father. Remember the statement:

"The whole thing has just turned into a vilification of Josh and it will turn into a vilification of me…”

If that doesn’t scream narcissist I don’t know what does. His father is obviously an over controlling narcissist. That’s a disease that is passed from father to son. Not genetically but by upbringing. To someone like this their children are possessions to be molded into replicas of the father. If Josh isn’t going to be around to mold his boys then he wants the next best thing. He wants the one who molded him to raise those boys.

They need to get into a loving, normal environment as soon as possible and that would be with the Cox’s.

 

[Dwight]

Evidently he's pretty darn sure that's not happening... I perceive thou art a prophet Joshy... :crystal ball:

arrot:

LOL that is pretty darn funny! Glad you have kept a sense of humor...After all there is really not much we can actually DO except pray that SP is found and justice is done.

I am not going to be able to catch up with all the reading here, so have to just call it a night...

 

[Pondering Mind]

(snip) Nope. Not difficult at all. Some of these people never really knew him. I'm quite certain they didn't--and still don't.

And the only thing SP's been worried about is how it makes HIM look--not one finger would he lift, not one word of concern for his DIL. He made his feelings known long ago. JMO

arrot:

hey kiki.. ITA! Thank goodness it appears his sister does not have blinders on. I am sure being the only one in her family that has spoken out can't be easy for her, but I'm grateful that she has. She must care very much about Susan..

 

[kiki the parrot]

hey kiki.. ITA! Thank goodness it appears his sister does not have blinders on. I am sure being the only one in her family that has spoken out can't be easy for her, but I'm grateful that she has. She must care very much about Susan..

Hi friend :hug: AGREE! She appears to be one person w a backbone, thank heavens... a tough stand to take, but I respect her for at least being strong enough to stand for what's right... even when it comes to her own family member. If only others could be as objective. :waitasec:

arrot: