UT - Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 #7

  • #141
I am a member of National Assoc. of Photoshop Professionals and have taken over two thousand photos of campfires and over 50,000 photos in the past two years, and published in numerous photography books.

I performed the same forensic tests on Josh's photo, and found it is one he could rightly be proud to have produced. He used too much flash, and clearly is a beginner, but has spent quite a chunk of his ill-gotten gains on some fancy equipment. I think he'd botch it big time if he tried to fake a fire, and one look at his purple ribbon thing shows off his level of photoshop skills quite accurately.

Fire is pretty hard to fake, and the expert explained the lighting issues very well. In fact, that is why I have created such a huge reference of fire photos for my own work.

It appears all these experts are looking at is to determine if the fire is fake. I have not focused on the fire but the photo details themselves. There are too many strange things about the photo which I've pointed out before. The fire is the least of my concerns.

Regardless if the photo is genuine, or not, Josh certainly did blur out his shirt and one has to wonder why. Also, his hand around Charlie's waist appears very strange and I do NOT see a wedding band on it although it is the hand men wear the band on.
 
  • #142
It appears all these experts are looking at is to determine if the fire is fake. I have not focused on the fire but the photo details themselves. There are too many strange things about the photo which I've pointed out before. The fire is the least of my concerns.

Regardless if the photo is genuine, or not, Josh certainly did blur out his shirt and one has to wonder why. Also, his hand around Charlie's waist appears very strange and I do NOT see a wedding band on it although it is the hand men wear the band on.
I agree, it looks like the sweatshirt might have said BYU on it, and he wouldn't want that on his website, since he didn't go there. I tried to find the exact color combination on a sweatshirt on the school's website currently for sale and couldn't. It's probably old. I think I've seen it before.

Strange he's not wearing a wedding band? I don't wear mine when it's cold, because I've had it fall off and almost lost it. The shadows at Susan's thigh and behind her are from too much flash. Not sure what's wrong with his hand, I don't see the problem, but do know a four year old gets excited about a fire.

Chickie, I'd have posted these remarks the other week, but I posted a link you asked for and got a time out while the discussion was going on so I couldn't give my comments.
 
  • #143
On one of the newsclips, I saw that an 'expert' stated that the controversial picture on Josh's website was not photoshopped. I have never heard of this expert and I do not agree with him at all. JMO

d

Mark Throckmorton
Taylorsville High School
Taylorsville, UTAH
Class of 1996
Biography: Life I'm working as a graphic designer for one of our local news stations.
Source: http://www.classmates.com/directory/public/memberprofile/list.htm?regId=216813471
 
  • #144
d

Mark Throckmorton
Taylorsville High School
Taylorsville, UTAH
Class of 1996
Biography: Life I'm working as a graphic designer for one of our local news stations.
Source: http://www.classmates.com/directory/public/memberprofile/list.htm?regId=216813471

Here's a link with his opinion. Worth a quick look, especially when compared with the input we have from Websleuth members.

http://mobile.abc4.com/content/news...owell-family-fake/nkRLbJnS2kG64yr-udJ8sw.cspx

PickieChickie--just realized this is essentially the same link you posted on another thread--it's just more in blog form. Didn't mean to repeat.

FWIW, I'm not an expert in photo shop at all. But, that photo looks like an absolute fake to me--it's not a normal photo in many ways.
 
  • #145
Someone wrote me saying a Mormon woman can't get to heaven unless her husband gives permission. Is this a true fact? If so, could that be part of the reason Susan wanted her marriage to work out so badly? Could fear of not making it to heaven have kept her in this dangerous union?

From what I understand, when they are married in the Mormon faith, the husband then gives his wife a secret name. When they die, he will call for her using that name and that is how she is able to reach their heaven.

VB
 
  • #146
Someone wrote me saying a Mormon woman can't get to heaven unless her husband gives permission. Is this a true fact? If so, could that be part of the reason Susan wanted her marriage to work out so badly? Could fear of not making it to heaven have kept her in this dangerous union?

Pickie, I'm not of the LDS religion, so can't answer the question to that. BUT, I will say I think Susan was very strong willed, a rebel of sorts, and a go getter. She would be someone that would not given in or give up on something she believed in -with ferocity. She would be a fighter to the end---especially for her children and no matter what that entailed. I think Josh "found out" something she was doing--WHAT, I don't know. It could be something really stupid (knowing his outlook of things) or something more serious.
 
  • #147
  • #148
Someone wrote me saying a Mormon woman can't get to heaven unless her husband gives permission. Is this a true fact? If so, could that be part of the reason Susan wanted her marriage to work out so badly? Could fear of not making it to heaven have kept her in this dangerous union?
I have one friend who is going through a divorce who told me there's this hormone, oxytocin, that changes the brain as soon as the couple sees each other again, even after months of separation. I watched her go from resolved to jello in the space of an hour in a meeting with attorneys from both sides, and all the caring, bonding emotions came back even when this man had been caught on camera doing perverted and illegal things as well as making death threats. This woman is almost 60.

In another situation, my daughter tells me maybe she is the only one who understands the abuse and can help him to be more mature, and even though he has done very bad things to her, she still loves him and this decision will take time.

Oxytocin. It's plenty enough all alone to explain a lot of why someone will hang on in a hopeless situation. I've sure seen plenty of it. Plus social conditioning since the age of Barbies. Plus maybe knowing life after divorce isn't always a basket of peaches.
 
  • #149
Regarding the fake degree from University of Washington in Seattle:

I emailed the registrar asking if a Joshua Powell received a degree from that institution in the last 15 years and this is the response I got today:

2 have attended, neither have received degrees as of this date.

University of Washington
Office of the Registrar
209 Schmitz Hall
Seattle WA 98105
Fax 206-685-3660
 
  • #150
Regarding the fake degree from University of Washington in Seattle:

I emailed the registrar asking if a Joshua Powell received a degree from that institution in the last 15 years and this is the response I got today:

2 have attended, neither have received degrees as of this date.

University of Washington
Office of the Registrar
209 Schmitz Hall
Seattle WA 98105
Fax 206-685-3660

Will you please forward that e-mail, including the e-mail you sent the registrar, to [email protected] please . I will NOT forward it to anyone I promise.
 
  • #151
Another Mark Hacking similarity?
 
  • #152
I was unaware that this much detail had been released about her journal, could you give your source please?

You're right, Bartleby! :blushing:

I couldn't find any article that specifically says the three statements I repeated came directly from Susan's journal. The articles state only that the journals contained threats Joshua had made against Susan.

I must have assumed the other information was also contained in the journals because of the following reasons >>>

None of Susan's church friends have admitted to knowing about:

1. Susan's note of NO suicide - or never voluntarily leaving the boys.
2. Susan's separate bank account.
3. That Susan made plans of where to stay when she escaped from Josh.

Kiirsti implied that whoever was making the above statements was not telling the truth because Susan told her everything and Susan had never mentioned those things to her. Kiirsti said she had never heard ANY OF IT from Susan.

Therefore, I assumed that these stories were coming from Susan's coworker-friends at the Wells Fargo Bank -- and probably at least some of the statements are written within Susan's journals.

I find it puzzling that Susan reportedly said she was poised to return to Washington with the help of her parents -- when Mom and Dad Cox didn't seem to know anything about Susan perhaps leaving Josh and returning home.

The first article specifically mentions that Susan had plans of where to stay if she and the boys ran from Josh.

Note, Susan began marriage counseling in late summer which corresponds to her decision to fast, pray and stay in the marriage.

I have snipped text we've read many times and that doesn't relate to the marriage counseling or what Susan's friends knew.

(bolding & underlining is mine)

Susan Powell mulled divorce, plan to escape husband, friends say


By Brooke Adams
And Melinda Rogers

The Salt Lake Tribune

Updated: 12/22/2009 08:49:16 AM MST

A year before she disappeared, Susan Powell told a wide circle of friends she was preparing for the worst if she sought a divorce: that her husband might try to kidnap their sons and break her financially.

She said she had set up a separate bank account, arranged a place to stay if she decided to leave, and had informally written a will, according to friends who requested anonymity because they are not authorized by police to speak about the investigation. And Susan Powell made sure many knew of her preparations.

Susan Powell ultimately decided to stay and work on the relationship after fasting and praying.

<<snip>>


Friends said they told her the relationship wasn't healthy and confirm that they encouraged Susan Powell to leave her husband, whom they have described as controlling and emotionally abusive. A friend has said Susan Powell was at one point poised to return to Washington with the aid of her parents.

Joshua Powell, 33, was upset his wife was depositing money into an account he didn't have access to, said friends who added that they encouraged Susan to stand up to him. Family members have said the couple got marital counseling at Susan Powell's urging.


McLachlan said he did not know of any financial motive, such as a life insurance policy, that could give anyone an incentive to harm her.

<<snip>>

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_14042094?source=most_viewed

*********************************************************************************************
Searching for Susan Powell: Neighbor describes husband's odd behavior

<<snip>>
"Josh is really possessive about his things," Peterson said. "He treated everything as his possessions, including his wife and kids. He was very controlling."

Peterson is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and attends the same ward as the Powells. He and Susan Powell became close late this summer, when she asked him questions about marriage counseling, which Peterson and his wife previously had gone through.

On the day of the Powells' first meeting with the LDS Family Service counselor, she told Peterson about Joshua Powell's controlling behavior, and how he had become more possessive and obsessive since moving to Utah five years ago. She told Peterson she wanted her husband to become active in the LDS Church again and get his temple recommend by their anniversary in 2010, or she was seriously considering divorcing him.

"She went to the marriage counselor hoping it would save their marriage," Peterson said.

But Joshua's behavior showed a lack of caring for Susan's well-being, Peterson said.

<<snip>>

Joshua Powell also became increasingly erratic.

Powell once yelled at the Petersons for taking off their shoes and socks in his home, saying he'd have to spend all night cleaning the floors from the germs on their bare feet.

Susan Powell talked with Peterson about her first four marriage counseling sessions, but stopped after Peterson counseled her to leave her husband, whom he didn't see making any effort to improve their relationship.

"I told her she was a beautiful, talented woman who could be so much happier in a different situation," Peterson said. "I told her her husband was an energy suck and no one could stand to be around him."

Peterson said Susan Powell wanted to be more social and have friends over more often, but fellow ward members "couldn't stand" Joshua and would avoid him.

Even though Peterson and Susan Powell stopped talking about the Powell marriage, they stayed in touch. She sent him an e-mail thanking him for a backyard play set for her two boys, saying it would be great to have next summer to entertain the boys while she did yard work.

"This was not a woman who wanted to leave," Peterson said.

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_14058397?source=most_viewed

********************************************************************************************


E-mails from Susan Powell told of marriage struggles

Friends of Susan Powell turn over correspondence from 2008 to W.V. police


By Pat Reavy

Deseret News
Published: Tuesday, Dec. 22, 2009 10:52 p.m. MST

WEST VALLEY CITY — E-mails sent last year by Susan Powell to friends told of marriage struggles between her and her husband to the point that she seemed to be in fear of him.

Several of her friends, who wished to remain anonymous, confirmed to the Deseret News that they had turned over to police e-mails that she sent them in June and July of 2008, the point when all friends agreed the Powells' marriage was at its worst.

One friend confirmed that in one of the e-mails, Susan Powell said she was afraid Josh Powell might kidnap her two boys, divorce her or worse.

The friend said Susan Powell had talked to her one day about something she had written and left in her desk at work.

"She had mentioned about writing something so that no one would ever think she committed suicide. She said it would be so her boys would know that she would never kill herself, because she would never leave her boys alone," the friend said.


"I didn't really know the context in which she was talking. I didn't even know what to say to that."

The friend said that was the only time Susan Powell brought up that topic.

West Valley police on Tuesday declined to talk about any potential evidence in the case. Other friends had reported earlier that a notebook Susan Powell kept in her desk at work at Wells Fargo was among the items seized by police.

The notebook, according to one source, detailed threats allegedly made about a year ago against her.

<<snip>>


For Susan Powell's friends and family, a red flag to them that foul play is likely involved is that she never would have left her two young boys, ages 2 and 4.

"She wouldn't even go visiting teaching for an hour without the boys," one friend said.

Susan Powell remained active in her LDS ward, even after her husband stopped going to church, according to friends. She was in the Relief Society and recently had accepted a new calling prior to her disappearance.

Friends say 2008 was a tough year for the Powells' marriage. They confirmed previous reports that Josh Powell was very controlling and that his wife had confided to a few friends that she was considering whether to leave him.

"She'd talk about how she was debating about how she should get divorced. But she wanted to give him a chance to change to how he was when they first met. She said if they tried counseling, she'd give him another chance," a friend said, but added, "I don't know if anything was really changing."

"She prayed about it. She felt like she should stay and keep working on the marriage," another friend said.

One friend said counseling was supposed to be once a week, but they didn't always keep to that schedule.

The Powells filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy in 2007. Money issues seemed to continue to be a point of contention between the couple in the years following.

But as far as friends could tell, Josh and Susan Powell were doing much better in 2009. And despite her e-mails, friends say she always tried to be optimistic.

"She's just very outgoing and bubbly. When she was having a hard time, you wouldn't know. She always tried to be positive and uplifting to others," a friend said.

But friends say she also started standing up more to her husband. She gained more confidence, they said.

"They knew how to push each other's buttons," a friend said.

Friends also noted that going on a spur of the moment camping trip wasn't necessarily out of the ordinary for Josh Powell. One friend recalled a time when Susan Powell had to get a ride home from work from another person because of a miscommunication with her husband. He decided one afternoon to take his two boys camping, the friend said. They returned about 3 a.m. because it got too cold, and the boys subsequently got sick.

"I don't know if he thinks things through sometimes," the friend said. "He just kind of picks up and decides to do it."

<<snip>>

As for whether Josh Powell had anything to do with his wife's disappearance, at least one friend didn't want to go there.

"At the very beginning, I was really hoping he had nothing to do with it, just because he has a different personality. The way he came across on the news wasn't good for people who didn't know him," the friend said. "At this point, I don't want to say anything. It's hard to talk about, anyway."


http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...-Susan-Powell-told-of-marriage-struggles.html

*******************************************************************************************

This seems to indicate it was Susan's COWORKERS who knew the most about Susan's marriage problems and FEAR of Josh -- and were the main informants to the media.

(b&u mine)

UPDATE: Susan's friends have been handing over notes and e-mails from as far back as last summer that portray a woman who feared her husband.

Susan had warned that Josh might kidnap their children, file for divorce or worse. She was setting up alternate bank accounts so he couldn't steal her money and had written an informal will, just in case.

Police have confiscated a journal she kept at work detailing the threats against her. And one of her coworkers said she once found a chilling note written by Susan that described how she'd never commit suicide. She had written it, says the coworker, so that her boys would know their mom would never desert them should she ever disappear.

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2009/12/stockbroker_susan_powell_still.php
 
  • #153
Kiirsti implied that whoever was making the above statements was not telling the truth because Susan told her everything and Susan had never mentioned those things to her. Kiirsti said she had never heard ANY OF IT from Susan.
http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/dailyweekly/2009/12/stockbroker_susan_powell_still.php
On reading this now in the rear-view mirror, I'm thinking of how Kiirsi has stayed friends with POI longer than most, and how Susan might have sensed or known that some of her girlfriend confidences could or did end up being shared with POI when she didn't want that to happen. Kiirsi might have loved Susan like a sister but in many ways she seems more a friend of the family than a friend to Susan in the sense of confidante.
 
  • #154
We have all seen Kiirsi's personality via Facebook--"don't say anything mean."

I somehow doubt she would have been a good listener to Susan's problems. Kiirsi is a simple woman, home-schooled all her life and I think she lacks a wide range of life experience and wisdom. Perhaps Susan put her toe in the water to test Kiirsi's reaction to marital problems the Powells were having, and felt Kiirsi was not the right person to confide in. I wouldn't confide in someone who refused to hear or speak ill of someone who was abusing me.

I think we all have a wide range of friends. Some friends you talk about certain things with, other friends you talk about different things. Apparently she felt more free to talk about her marriage difficulties with her work friends. Kiirsi lives in a land of unicorns, rainbows, and little tweeting birds happy in their nest. What would she know about the kind of problems Susan was dealing with? For this reason, I truly believe Kiirsi was in the dark.
 
  • #155
Regarding the fake degree from University of Washington in Seattle:

I emailed the registrar asking if a Joshua Powell received a degree from that institution in the last 15 years and this is the response I got today:

2 have attended, neither have received degrees as of this date.

University of Washington
Office of the Registrar
209 Schmitz Hall
Seattle WA 98105
Fax 206-685-3660

But OK5 said that Josh went to Washington STATE University -- NOT the University of Washington. They are totally different institutions.

Verifying a degree at the University of Washington can be done online -- but I think one must pay for verification at Washington State Univ.
 
  • #156
On reading this now in the rear-view mirror, I'm thinking of how Kiirsi has stayed friends with POI longer than most, and how Susan might have sensed or known that some of her girlfriend confidences could or did end up being shared with POI when she didn't want that to happen. Kiirsi might have loved Susan like a sister but in many ways she seems more a friend of the family than a friend to Susan in the sense of confidante.

I was thinking the same thing.
There are people I know who I would not be completely open with about everything. They would be quick to say we are friends, but I am a private person in many ways and have learned that with certain people I don't open up with so much. Some people like to talk and before you know it the whole neighborhood knows your business. I think it's very telling that Susan was talking to her neighbor about the marriage councelling rather than to Kirsi, I think Susan knew who she could really talk to about sensitve manners and who she couldn't.

VB
 
  • #157
But OK5 said that Josh went to Washington STATE University -- NOT the University of Washington. They are totally different institutions.

Verifying a degree at the University of Washington can be done online -- but I think one must pay for verification at Washington State Univ.

The problem is there is no Washington State University in Seattle. Only the University of Washington. So what she said is in error one way or the other. Personally, I think it would be easier to mix up WSU over U of W before I would confuse which city it was in. For that reason, I am thinking it was probably U of W she meant to say. I suspect he attended, but did not finish.
 
  • #158
We have all seen Kiirsi's personality via Facebook--"don't say anything mean."

I somehow doubt she would have been a good listener to Susan's problems. Kiirsi is a simple woman, home-schooled all her life and I think she lacks a wide range of life experience and wisdom. Perhaps Susan put her toe in the water to test Kiirsi's reaction to marital problems the Powells were having, and felt Kiirsi was not the right person to confide in. I wouldn't confide in someone who refused to hear or speak ill of someone who was abusing me.

I think we all have a wide range of friends. Some friends you talk about certain things with, other friends you talk about different things. Apparently she felt more free to talk about her marriage difficulties with her work friends. Kiirsi lives in a land of unicorns, rainbows, and little tweeting birds happy in their nest. What would she know about the kind of problems Susan was dealing with? For this reason, I truly believe Kiirsi was in the dark.


I am not stating anything *mean.* I am stating the TRUTH - with Kiirsti's OWN WORDS as published on several different Sites. :banghead:


Susan Powell's best friend says recent reports could be damaging to investigation

Last Update: 12/24/2009 8:11 am


Susan Powell's best friend talks exclusively with ABC4 tonight, saying the information from "anonymous leaks" to local publications may be hurting the police investigation.

Kiirsi Hellewell says she's questioning why these so called sources are going to local news outlets instead of the police. Kiirsi says she's skeptical about some of the recent revelations printed in local publications. She says Susan told her "pretty much everything". She's worried the recent leaks might be hindering the work of the police.

Hellewell says, “I'm just surprised by some of the things that came out this week because it's not anything she's ever told me before, and she pretty much told me everything She adds that she doesn't know who these “anonymous sources” are, but she encourages anyone with fact-based valuable information to go straight to the police. Hellewell says, “A lot of us, even though we really want to help, it's really not helping. It's hurting more by talking about all these details that really should be kept between the police.”

Hellewell says there are a couple items she found especially shocking. Local reports stated Susan was “afraid Josh Powell might kidnap her two boys… divorce her or worse." Hellewell says Susan never told her that.
She also said she had never heard of any sort of will with "writing something so that no one would ever think she committed suicide," or stating "it would be so her boys would know that she would never kill herself, because she would never leave her boys alone."

Susan's best friend told us she has complete faith in the police and wants to respect their work. Hellewell says, “They know so many things that they're not sharing with us, and they can't, because they're investigating it.”

She told us she hopes the focus stays on bringing Susan back home to her two children because she says Susan's oldest son is starting to miss his mommy. Hellewell says, “I know that he doesn't understand why she's gone, somebody whose always been there for him, for every step of his life.”

Susan's family put out a press release today asking those who want to help to go out and do an act of service over the holidays, in the name of Susan. They say Susan was a person of service and they hope this will help to honor her.

http://www.abc4.com/mostpopular/sto...ys-recent-reports/MBlD-1qZiU6rVNfZLj874A.cspx

 
  • #159
I am not stating anything *mean.* I am stating the TRUTH - with Kiirsti's OWN WORDS as published on several different Sites. :banghead:


Susan Powell's best friend says recent reports could be damaging to investigation


I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I meant that "don't say anything mean" is Kiirsi's take on life in general. Because of that, Susan felt she couldn't divulge to Kiirsi the things that were going on with Josh. Kiirsi didn't want to hear it because she didn't have the capacity to fully understand it due to her upbringing and naivete. I think you and I agree on this issue in general.
 
  • #160
We have all seen Kiirsi's personality via Facebook--"don't say anything mean."

I somehow doubt she would have been a good listener to Susan's problems. Kiirsi is a simple woman, home-schooled all her life and I think she lacks a wide range of life experience and wisdom. Perhaps Susan put her toe in the water to test Kiirsi's reaction to marital problems the Powells were having, and felt Kiirsi was not the right person to confide in. I wouldn't confide in someone who refused to hear or speak ill of someone who was abusing me.

I think we all have a wide range of friends. Some friends you talk about certain things with, other friends you talk about different things. Apparently she felt more free to talk about her marriage difficulties with her work friends. Kiirsi lives in a land of unicorns, rainbows, and little tweeting birds happy in their nest. What would she know about the kind of problems Susan was dealing with? For this reason, I truly believe Kiirsi was in the dark.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Subservient, to an extent, is the term that comes to my mind about Kirsii and her "way" in life. I mean absolutely no disrespect with this.........but rather maybe a speculation from an outsider of how maybe this family operates under the LDS spectrum. It reminds me of a way of life from generations ago.
 

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