UT - Susan Powell, 28, West Valley City, 6 Dec 2009 #7

[justice57]

I still think Susan is in a mine shaft... however...my brain is on overdrive tonight so here is a novel. :innocent:

Assuming for a moment that the "woods" comment is accurate I am guessing that would mean evergreens to a child that age...especially in the winter. If the apparent "slip up" when Josh says "we went south, well actually we just went to the Pony Express..." is also true... here are a few of the "south" areas that are possible for those of you not in Utah within a 4-5 hour round trip time frame, descending further south as I go. (If anyone wants pictures of any of these places... or any others, let me know. Also, if anyone knows any places that Josh was specifically familiar with, let me know.)

Utah County - American Fork Canyon has a lot of evergreens. Right there, right off the road. The river is also right off the road. It also would have been pretty safe to drive, they are generally quite good about plowing it.

Utah County - Provo Canyon also has some evergreens but they would be much more difficult to access I think. Provo Canyon leads to Heber. Which ultimately can connect you to Parley's. So Provo Canyon is an alternate to Parley's Canyon and much better in the winter IMO. I have driven up both, at Christmas in a minivan.

Utah County - Spanish Fork Canyon is Highway 6... Diamond Fork has some evergreens. Fairview has lots of evergreens. There is a few other places up there too. I don't know if that'd be plowed as well and you'd have to know the area I would think.

Utah County - Payson Canyon also has some evergreens but just off the canyon road. Any others would be on roads that there is no way he could have driven.

In Parley's canyon you also have Lamb's Canyon not too far in, which comes to mind immediately. My cousin's body was dumped there. There is evergreens, doubt it's plowed well.

I cannot think of a place to hide anything in any of these canyons really. (Then again, I would pick any of the above before Ogden Canyon and Ethan Stacy was there...) You are taking a risk that the water is frozen... you can't dig because the ground is frozen... the rivers are really not that deep...

I really think the mine shaft was too good of an idea for him to let it go to waste.

The majority of the other canyons have very few if any "woods", or would have been impossible to drive that night. I do not believe Josh had chains. I do not know think I have ever known a single person who had them. I've lived here my whole life. I imagine you only would if you needed a 4x4 and couldn't afford one.




Abc4.com is usually the place that has news on Susan. They do interviews with her family when the other stations/papers don't even have a story about her. That's the first place I would look.



I do not believe this body at the potash plant is Susan... I am thinking Lark Montague or someone else. However... it didn't have to be dumped where it was found. I do not know about this area specifically, but most of Utah has been flooding. With it being found near a canal, if that canal flooded (almost all of them have been completely full) the body could have washed out. The same thing goes for a retention pond, if it overflowed. They have all been full. Irrigation facilities have all been full. Reservoirs are full, spillways look like huge waterfalls... rivers are raging.

We were in one of the areas last weekend, that had 1-4 feet of water back on June 6-9 or so. There was bones all over the place. It was creepy. They were deer bones, but there was a few I looked closely at to be sure. I would not be at all surprised if a few bodies washed up after that flooding. If they were in the rivers or in shallow graves.

I agree. I truly believe he went south. I wish we knew if her son said if their was snow on the ground where they went camping.

 

[nomad]

Lake Powell is 5.5 hours south of West Valley City

 

[MsFacetious]

It would be really nice if we could find out the places that Josh did like to go. That would be very helpful. Look at Scott Peterson....

Yes, my question is... are there any areas in the Salt Lake/Wasatch/Utah county vicinity that have mine shafts...in or near a wooded area? It doesn't have to be the SAME place because the boys likely would have been asleep anyway. As long as he had some time to get to the wooded area after he was done.

I am thinking that we are not talking about something very far off the main roads. Dirt roads are not going to be plowed and there is no way he was going to carry her up the side of a mountain. The ONLY exception would be if he had access to a snowmobile. This occurred to me when I was in Weber Canyon (also lots of evergreens... but highly doubtful he would have gotten up there) last weekend. That if he had a snowmobile and accomplice he would have had many more options.

Lake Powell is 5.5 hours south of West Valley City

Though I could see the irony in the name... That lake (gorgeous and a family tradition for us actually) wouldn't do you much good without a boat, you couldn't exactly toss an adult body into a lake... know what I mean? There are a few drop off/cliff type areas you could kind of roll someone off, but those need 4x4 to get to as far as I know. Lake Powell also has a lot of cameras... not a great place to commit a felony. You'd be better off with a river, or a reservoir. You are also taking a big risk with a lake or reservoir because they tend to find an extra body when they go looking for someone who drowned.... you'd be wise to pick a body of water that is not used for recreation.

 

[dovebar]

All the canyons I posted upthread fit this bill.

It depresses me that Utahns are doing nothing to find her. Every ward should be out hiking every Sunday morning, canvassing the state, rather than sitting in one more stupid meeting.

What are women worth in Utah? Pretty obviously nothing.

 

[gwenabob]

All the canyons I posted upthread fit this bill.

It depresses me that Utahns are doing nothing to find her. Every ward should be out hiking every Sunday morning, canvassing the state, rather than sitting in one more stupid meeting.

What are women worth in Utah? Pretty obviously nothing.

How do you know people *aren't* out looking for her every day? I think Josh just hid her quite well. In my opinion, there is no excuse for *any* deserted mine shafts without some kind of solid closure over them. He should never have had the opportunity to hide her in a mine shaft. (I suspect that is what he did with her.)

 

[Jules_SA]

I know of several utahn's that are out searching nearly every day for Susan - even in the harshest winter weather 6 months ago. These concerned citizens (who never even knew Susan personally) have covered so many miles of desolate land I wonder where they find the strength to keep going. I also know of a couple that are from out of state that go in to Utah to search whenever possible - in their free time.

There are good people out there searching for Susan. It's certainly a million times more than what her "concerned husband" is doing - even though he claims to miss and love her so much...

 

[hollyblue]

I think what upsets me the most is the "orgainizing" of various little things to keep her name out there....which is wonderful...no complaints there; but, it certainly looks as tho this case is going nowhere unless she is found. Why aren't there people rallying to have a constant organized/unorganized searches on going. They even had to ask for volunteers with this last search. You don't need anything except a good set of eyes and a phone capable of calling LE. Common sense tells you not to touch anything and where to look. There could be so many things done to support or encourage this. JMO
I must admit, I'm feeling a bit discouraged and frustrated with this at this point.

 

[hollyblue]

Chris is asking for ideas for future searches also. Glad to hear that. JMO, but I don't think she's anywhere near SLC. I say Idaho or E. Oregon. Either that or somewhere off of I-84 (close) on the stretch between the two. I lean toward where I-84 crosses the Snake River about mid-way thru ID. I remember crossing that bridge so many times between Boise and SLC. If you zoom in, he could have exited onto 25. There is a road that leads right to the river here. Looks like a rest stop.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8...11,-113.624983&spn=0.042542,0.076818&t=h&z=14

This is from the FB page:

http://www.youtube.com/v/NxDqnneCBe...&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param

 

[KBH5]

You don't need anything except a good set of eyes and a phone capable of calling LE. Common sense tells you not to touch anything and where to look.
I must admit, I'm feeling a bit discouraged and frustrated with this at this point.

(Snipped for space)

Yes, you'd think anyone with an ounce of common sense would KNOW not to touch things...but I know of at least two incidents where people found things searching for Susan that could have been evidence and destroyed nearly all of it. Picking up and dumping/spreading out abandoned garbage bags of clothing, smashing things, and more.

I just can't wrap my brain around stuff like that. I sure hope Susan is found by someone who knows not to destroy any evidence.

 

[dovebar]

How do you know people *aren't* out looking for her every day? I think Josh just hid her quite well. In my opinion, there is no excuse for *any* deserted mine shafts without some kind of solid closure over them. He should never have had the opportunity to hide her in a mine shaft. (I suspect that is what he did with her.)

I'm not talking about isolated individuals; there are certainly a few. I'm talking about a state that prides itself on organization, that brags about its ability to turn out volunteers, that talks endlessly both about being outdoorsy and about prizing mothers - and yet, no energy behind a search. I'm talking about the fact that people put so much energy into BYU and UofU football and tailgating, yet don't spend a fraction of that energy into regular searches, well-publicized, that would send the message that respect for mothers is more than lip service.

This would also send a message to Josh that would, IMHO, begin to put pressure on him, begin to worry him. That's when people begin to do desperate things, like return to the scene of the dump to make sure she's still there.

 

[Vegas Bride]

This holiday weekend many families are going camping, still hoping someone will find Susan, so often it seems the missing are found by a hiker.

VB

 

[gwenabob]

I personally believe Susan is dead (hope I'm wrong) and it's frustrating to me is that this might turn into something that will last 10 or 20 years. I want whomever responsible off the streets where they can't ever do this to anybody else.

Then tell your buddy Josh to turn himself in. Mission accomplished.

 

[gwenabob]

By the way, Hamburg. When is the last time you talked to Josh? I always had the impression he was just using you. After all, you and his dad are the only ones who have spoken out on his behalf. Does he even return your calls any more?

 

[grayjay]

Gwen you really need to learn how to think! It's the people like you that are the problem.

Susan is missing and it comes down to two things. Either Josh knows nothing of what happened to Susan or Josh was directly involved. On this issue there is no gray area, it's a true/false type of question. If Josh knows nothing there is probably nothing Josh can say that would help to find Susan. If Josh is guilty then it is quite obvious that Josh isn't going to say anything so a search would need to be done.

Kiirsi Hellewell didn't want to do a search because she felt it would be like finding a needle in a haystack so where do you search? Since Susan disappeared they found a person in eastern Nevada, out by Wendover, Idaho and another person as result of the oil spill in Salt Lake City. They probably have found a few more bodies as well that I haven't paid much attention to because nobody thought they were Susan. How many other people are still out there? Had an organized search found even one of those people even knowing it wasn't Susan, it would have done wonders for the moral of this tragic situation.

I'm telling you straight up, it's people like Chuck Cox and Kiirsi Hellewell who are the biggest problem here not whomever took Susan (even if it's Josh.) Everything that was accomplished by Ed Smart when Elizabeth was abducted has been undone by those two.

The problem with your point of view is that you are putting the cart before the horse. You live in Oregon so you definitely not going to be part of the jury. You don't know anything directly related to this case except what has been reported on so you are not going to be called as a witness in a trial (if there ever is one.) In almost 7 months since Susan has gone missing, there has been nobody named a suspect and no arrests made so that should tell you that unless Susan is found more than likely there will never be any justice served.

Priority needs to be placed on finding Susan, not pointing fingers. That's a fact. Get used to it.

Whomever is guilty, I want to see that person never get out of prison alive. I have no problem with the death penalty although in Utah to get the death penalty it has to be a brutal murder or one done by poison (Lots of other possibilities for the death penalty in Utah but they don't apply in this case.)

WS is a victim friendly site, and both the Cox family and her best friend Kiirsi are victims, not problems.

I agree the priority needs to be placed on finding Susan and not pointing fingers. I can't help but see finger pointing in your post. I also can't see how you figure the perp and/or POI is not the problem.

 

[dovebar]

The "women gossiping over a clothesline" remark and the "you need to learn to think" comment really say it all for Josh's "friends."

It seems we've touched a nerve in the idea of much wider searches.

 

[PickieChickie]

Priority needs to be placed on finding Susan, not pointing fingers. That's a fact. Get used to it.

I'm telling you straight up, it's people like Chuck Cox and Kiirsi Hellewell who are the biggest problem here not whomever took Susan (even if it's Josh.)

The second biggest mistake is believing that Social Networking (ie groups like Friends and Family of Susan Powell) can be successful. This has been a group that has been more of a bunch of women gossiping over a clothesline rather than an effort to find Susan. If you think Kiirsi Hellewell is going to be an example people should follow, you are sadly mistake.

Probably the biggest mistake in the search for Susan Powell has been made by her parents Chuck and Judy Cox. Blood is thicker than water and they should have been down here and organizing when it was clear that Josh was not able or willing to do so. Instead Chuck and Judy has pointed fingers at Josh instead of leading the effort. Had Chuck taken the lead as he should have, he could have replaced Ed Smart as the poster parent for missing children.

I'm confused.​

 

[Vegas Bride]

Well, nothing like blaming the victims.

VB

 

[gwenabob]

Well, nothing like blaming the victims.

VB

Well, if there were no victims, there would be no problems! At least that's the solution in the minds of people who know how to think.:waitasec:

 

[PickieChickie]

The "women gossiping over a clothesline" remark and the "you need to learn to think" comment really say it all for Josh's "friends."

It seems we've touched a nerve in the idea of much wider searches.

:laugh:I wonder how many people would join a Facebook group entitled "Friends and Family of Josh Powell"?

:rotfl:
​

 

[gwenabob]

:laugh:I wonder how many people would join a Facebook group entitled "Friends and Family of Josh Powell"?

:rotfl:
​

OK, that made me laugh!