UT - Trooper accused of punching woman after traffic stop

From what we know from this article, did the officer respond appropriately?


  • Total voters
    36
  • Poll closed .
  • #21
Which "medical problem" is it that we cure by punching the sufferer in the face several times? ('Cause I want to get the vaccine while there's still time.)

I don't think anyone is defending the woman's behavior, but you raise an interesting question: what if she was not just drunk but ill? (Not saying this was true. I don't know.)



One that causes them to be unresponsive to officers which began with an attempt to pull her over, followed by a chase and continued after she was blocked by cars and asked repeatedly asked to stop trying to escape. I don't really believe she was ill. I don't believe there are vaccine's for mental illnesses that might cause her behavior so I am pretty sure you are out of luck.
 
  • #22
If this female was a cop, I can guarantee you the time for calm would have been past. She's probably lucky I wasn't the aprehending officer, I might have thrown in a couple more punches.

Course, I have a bit of a temper when pushed.

ETA besides, were the officer female I doubt very much the charges would have been dropped. The part that seems to have everyone up in arms is that the drunk was a female over 50 and the aprehending officer (punch thrower) was male. If both were female IMO this situation would not be being debated at all.


ITA, calm was gone when adrenaline kicked in during the initial attempts to pulled her over and when the chase ensued. By the time she was blocked and was trying to move LE cars out of her way they were all full of adrenaline and no one would have been calm.

I also agree that charges wouldn't have been dropped if she had been a he or the cop had been female. My opinion is that gender bias is the reason charges are being dropped. No 53 yr old man would have gotten out of these charges.
 
  • #23
Or perhaps a female officer could have politely asked her over the pa system to pull over and she would have complied, avoiding the entire incident.

For pete's sake, the police had to ram her car to get her to stop, and had to box her in to keep her from continuing, and even then, she kept trying to flee.

IMO the police used justifiable force to protect their lives, and the lives of not only the general public, but also the life of the offender, had she noty been stopped.



Sorry to stereotype genders, but I'll bet you a female officer could have solved the situation without punches or tasers, by merely speaking calmly to the driver (once her car was boxed in).
 
  • #24
Or perhaps a female officer could have politely asked her over the pa system to pull over and she would have complied, avoiding the entire incident.

For pete's sake, the police had to ram her car to get her to stop, and had to box her in to keep her from continuing, and even then, she kept trying to flee.

IMO the police used justifiable force to protect their lives, and the lives of not only the general public, but also the life of the offender, had she noty been stopped.

I'm not second-guessing or criticizing the officers in this incident. Frankly, I have little interest in showing mercy to anyone who leads police on a high-speed chase, thus endangering the officers and every in the community.

But IIRC there have been numerous studies showing that female officers, while generally having less upper-body strength than their male counterparts, excel at conflict-resolution skills and often are able to deflate a situation so physical force is unnecessary.

Who knows what a female officer might have accomplished here? Maybe nothing different, but we'll never know.
 
  • #25
Link


Utah trooper accused of punching woman after traffic stop
From Rick Martin, CNN
January 23, 2011 7:35 a.m. EST
JMO

snipped just a little to save space!

I am on the side of the officer. I am giving him a bit of grace here, because I didn't hear her engine revving, and I did not hear any command to open her window or shut off the engine. But the bottom line is, a drunk woman was driving through town in such a manner that she attracted the attention of an officer who chased her long enough to get other officers involved in the attempt to stop her.

I am not crazy over men punching women, and truthfully, it disturbs me even when it's a police officer against a drunk female driver, whether she was 53 or 59---I wish they'd have shot out her tires or since he was sticking his arm into the car anyway, I wish he'd have grabbed the keys from the ignition. However, it is obvious to me that his punches aren't with all his strength, and that he was merely trying to gain control, not knock the woman into next Sunday. And I do appreciate that he did not use deadly force.

Here's another article; http://www.standard.net/topics/utah/2011/01/22/utah-trooper-leave-after-assault-allegations-ogden



...Wright was booked into the Weber County Jail for investigation of charges that included eluding police, reckless driving, assault on a police officer and driving under the influence. But court records showed Wright was charged with just one count of third-degree felony failure to stop or respond at the command of police.

That the case was dismissed on Jan. 13.

Wright said she remembers the pain of being hit, an officer smashing her car windows and a "black glove coming through and hitting me ... just smack."

She said she wants the video of the incident seen so that individuals can decide whether Andrew Davenport's account of the incident is accurate....


She can't remember the whole incident and yet she says later in the article that it shouldn't happen to anyone again.

Here's how you could have stopped it from happening in the first place you dumb biotch.

1. Don't drink and drive
2. When the cops come up behind you and turn their lights on, pull over
3. Be respectful of the officer even though you know you're in a :censored: load of trouble. YOU CAUSED YOUR OWN PROBLEMS!!!


The sickest thing to me about this is that all of the charges against her have been dropped. :maddening:

158026.jpg

I know from reading my local arrest records and comparing them to what happens by the time the case hits the court system that officers are prone to throw anything at the suspect that they think might possibly have even a slim chance of sticking! so I am not surprised to see multiple charges morph into one charge......it is surprising that the final charge was dropped completely.

My own experiences, which by far are not the sum total of anything, are that charges are dropped under few circumstances. One would be that the prosecutor knows they cannot gain a conviction. (I don't think that is the case here.) Another reason would be if the prosecutor wants to avoid negative feedback from the public (such as in the case of a highly popular suspect and an "iffy" arrest), and I don't think that is the case either. I'm left wondering if the charges were dropped in the hopes that the woman would not pursue lawsuits against the officer and department.

I stand behind the officer 100%. Tasers can be fatal, and properly administered closed hand blows are typically not. he was trying to stun her, not render her dead or unconscious, while also trying to protect the lives and property of others present. It appears that he accomplished all of those goals.

I support his actions.

I agree with you about the tasers! In fact she did not really respond to the officer's blows----things did not seem to be really under control until the other officer tased her through a back window!

I hate tasers being used as a "first response" tool, but I'm finding I don't always mind them being utilized when other avenues have been tried and exhausted. In this case, more than one officer was involved in the chase, which (at least in my mind) means the chase lasted more than a few seconds, the car was blockaded, the woman (if LE claims are true) failed to respond to commands to turn off her engine and lower the window, and even after the window was broken, did not turn off the engine or (according to LE) cease to rev her engine. That's a reasonable amount of effort on the part of LE, in my opinion, and I have no problem with the other officer pulling out the taser at that point.

Steely: Your list of how one might avoid these circumstances is right on target!
 
  • #26
Sorry to stereotype genders, but I'll bet you a female officer could have solved the situation without punches or tasers, by merely speaking calmly to the driver (once her car was boxed in).

I dont know if that is necessarily true. I have seen some female officers who dont take crap off of anyone they stop and they would sock the person if it was warranted just like a male officer has to do from time to time.

IMO
 
  • #27
Sadly, if you follow Steely's link to CNN there are two more stories on there where six officers were shot and injured recently. I have absolutely no problem with what this officer did. I am so tired of people thinking they can do what they want to police officers because they know if the officer crosses that thin line, they can just scream corruption and abuse. :banghead:
 
  • #28
I dont know if that is necessarily true. I have seen some female officers who dont take crap off of anyone they stop and they would sock the person if it was warranted just like a male officer has to do from time to time.

IMO

No, it isn't necessarily true, it is generally true, as per more than one study I heard explained on television. (Sorry, I don't have a link handy. I saw a documentary on the subject several years ago.)

No one claimed there wouldn't be exceptions.

But just to be clear, it wasn't that female officers "took crap." The finding was that they tended to defuse situations before "crap" was given out. IIRC, this was particularly true of domestic violence situations (which this was not, of course).
 
  • #29
I suspect you are right. My point is that there is no such thing as a true "long distance" taser. The "prong shooters" only work up to six feet or so.

So why was he "too close" to use one on this woman? (Not that I'm assuming being tasered is much better than being punched.) I'm just trying to understand his logic.

Long distance is a relative term. I think it means "from a safe enough distance for the officer to get to the suspect"

In his report he cites the ineffectiveness of those tasers used at close range.

Sadly, if you follow Steely's link to CNN there are two more stories on there where six officers were shot and injured recently. I have absolutely no problem with what this officer did. I am so tired of people thinking they can do what they want to police officers because they know if the officer crosses that thin line, they can just scream corruption and abuse. :banghead:

What she said.
 
  • #30
  • #31
Long distance is a relative term. I think it means "from a safe enough distance for the officer to get to the suspect"

In his report he cites the ineffectiveness of those tasers used at close range....

Okay, now you're just trying to mess with my head. I know that's what he said because that's what prompted my question! :banghead: :)

We both always understood there was an outer range beyond which the prongs wouldn't reach.

But this office said he couldn't use his taser because he was too close.

So my question has always been how close is too close and why?

I assume the officer probably should not be touching the suspect, because I suspect they would both then be shocked.

But this officer wasn't locked in a bear hug with the woman, was he? Why couldn't he step back and tase away?

(I am setting aside entirely the question of which is worse: being tased or punched. I have no experience with either and have no opinion. Neither sounds pleasant to me.)
 
  • #32
Okay, now you're just trying to mess with my head. I know that's what he said because that's what prompted my question! :banghead: :)

We both always understood there was an outer range beyond which the prongs wouldn't reach.

But this office said he couldn't use his taser because he was too close.

So my question has always been how close is too close and why?

I assume the officer probably should not be touching the suspect, because I suspect they would both then be shocked.

But this officer wasn't locked in a bear hug with the woman, was he? Why couldn't he step back and tase away?

(I am setting aside entirely the question of which is worse: being tased or punched. I have no experience with either and have no opinion. Neither sounds pleasant to me.)

That's a good question I wondered about too but he says he's had experience in close proximity and they don't work well. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.
 
  • #33
She looks really good for getting punched in the head 5 times...did he even make contact with her?
Maybe just not in the face, I guess.

Maybe kind of excessive, but really she brought it to that crazy level. The sirens were so loud I couldn't hear if she was trying to still get away.
 
  • #34
snipped just a little to save space!

I am on the side of the officer. I am giving him a bit of grace here, because I didn't hear her engine revving, and I did not hear any command to open her window or shut off the engine. But the bottom line is, a drunk woman was driving through town in such a manner that she attracted the attention of an officer who chased her long enough to get other officers involved in the attempt to stop her.

I am not crazy over men punching women, and truthfully, it disturbs me even when it's a police officer against a drunk female driver, whether she was 53 or 59---I wish they'd have shot out her tires or since he was sticking his arm into the car anyway, I wish he'd have grabbed the keys from the ignition. However, it is obvious to me that his punches aren't with all his strength, and that he was merely trying to gain control, not knock the woman into next Sunday. And I do appreciate that he did not use deadly force.



I know from reading my local arrest records and comparing them to what happens by the time the case hits the court system that officers are prone to throw anything at the suspect that they think might possibly have even a slim chance of sticking! so I am not surprised to see multiple charges morph into one charge......it is surprising that the final charge was dropped completely.

My own experiences, which by far are not the sum total of anything, are that charges are dropped under few circumstances. One would be that the prosecutor knows they cannot gain a conviction. (I don't think that is the case here.) Another reason would be if the prosecutor wants to avoid negative feedback from the public (such as in the case of a highly popular suspect and an "iffy" arrest), and I don't think that is the case either. I'm left wondering if the charges were dropped in the hopes that the woman would not pursue lawsuits against the officer and department.



I agree with you about the tasers! In fact she did not really respond to the officer's blows----things did not seem to be really under control until the other officer tased her through a back window!

I hate tasers being used as a "first response" tool, but I'm finding I don't always mind them being utilized when other avenues have been tried and exhausted. In this case, more than one officer was involved in the chase, which (at least in my mind) means the chase lasted more than a few seconds, the car was blockaded, the woman (if LE claims are true) failed to respond to commands to turn off her engine and lower the window, and even after the window was broken, did not turn off the engine or (according to LE) cease to rev her engine. That's a reasonable amount of effort on the part of LE, in my opinion, and I have no problem with the other officer pulling out the taser at that point.

Steely: Your list of how one might avoid these circumstances is right on target!

kgeaux, I believe I heard on JVM's show recently that the police no longer shoot out the tires of a suspect. Spike strips are the preferred method now, but I'm not sure if there was adequate time to deploy them in this instance. And with some vehicles, you can't remove the keys from the ignition without putting the transmission into park. Perhaps he couldn't reach the gearshift, or was afraid that changing gears might cause the woman's car to lurch forward. But I do get your point. :)

You can bet that if she HAD been tasered, some attorney would be screaming excessive force then, too - how DARE police use such a dangerous tool on an elderly woman with a weak heart! :rolleyes: :violin:
 
  • #35
My problem is often times wheen police have to chase someone they rough them up just because they are angry that they had to chase. If that's the case then he was wrong. Police shouldn't have the right to punch someone because they are angry. Now if he felt his life was really in danger then he was justified. The trick would be to know which was really which. IMO
 
  • #36
My problem is often times wheen police have to chase someone they rough them up just because they are angry that they had to chase. If that's the case then he was wrong. Police shouldn't have the right to punch someone because they are angry. Now if he felt his life was really in danger then he was justified. The trick would be to know which was really which. IMO

Going by what I've seen and read so far he acted appropriately, JMO.
 

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