VA - Amy Bradley - missing from cruise ship, Curacao - 1998 #4

[fsngruv]

I don't know if that's Amy or not, but your reasoning doesn't make sense to me. Amy Bradley may not have spent time on her hair and makeup, but IF Amy was abducted and trafficked, her life was no longer her own. Trafficking victims don't get the luxury of deciding what they look like, what they wear, how they do their makeup, whether or not they cut their hair. These are not choices. So hair and makeup isn't going to distinguish Jaz from Amy.

Based on my experience.

Then why do you think the lady in the picture do her make up and hair like that... You mean to tell me traffickers are gonna take all that time to fuss over her to make sure her hair and make up look like that, and for what reason, perhaps a side gig at beauty school???

 

[JohnMuir]

Thank for the info.

From what I understand, grand juries only convene for indictments. So was there an indictment? If there was, the grand jury was not moved to grant the indictment, if they did normally that allows the prosecutor to move on with the indictment(s).

How Does a Grand Jury Work? - FindLaw

The grand jury plays an important role in the criminal process, but not one that involves a finding of guilt or punishment of a party. Learn about how a grand jury works, and more, at FIndLaw's section on Criminal Procedure.

www.findlaw.com

I'm wondering if the indictment is from the proceedings of criminal fraud committed against the Bradley's in the early 2000's.

I am not a lawyer and maybe I just don't understand why a grand jury would listen to witness testimony in a civil case, but it appears to me that a grand jury would not listen to witness testimony unless there was criminal proceeding. I would appreciate anyone who could provide any info or if verified attorney could speak on whether a grand jury convenes for civil and criminal matters or only criminal matters because I think it's only criminal.

This is exactly what I think it is, and I’ve been losing my mind because I can’t mention this on reddit. I think that this would have been testimony in the case dealing with the fake PI, who I’m not sure fully fleeced the Bradley’s. They seem to always put out calls begging for someone to claim something, true or not, in order to collect money, be on television (now social media), or sue someone. I think they also seem to get a lot of satisfaction from keeping the daughter they wanted- not Amy, but the straight siren/trophy Iva thinks she deserved- alive and rewriting the story of Amy in the media (completely trampling her actual story). All of this PI stuff started soon after their cases against Royal Caribbean were slapped down for them lying, when they needed another angle to use if they wanted the big payout they think they deserve.

Also, people are very confused and keep saying that the Bradley’s paid the PI $220,000, which somehow proves they were never denying a fall due to Amy’s extreme intoxication or jumping in order to claim and collect money- only to find Amy (and that they can’t know that Amy landed in the water). But the Bradley’s paid $20-24,000 to him, while the Center for Missing CHILDREN paid $186,000. Thy had definitely made more than $25,000 from this tragedy at that point, and have never stopped profiting, all while not expending much capital at all. Nothing like the Holloways (although they sure didn’t pass up the opportunity to piggyback on her story to screech about white slavery and how every other culture sees young white women as prizes.). Frank McCord, the parents’ boss, used to foot the bill, then the Center for Missing and Exploited Children, and since they’ve just been making money from shows and donations and seemingly spending nothing to find Amy. And Brad’s media skankery is certainly aimed at the goofundme above finding any truth about Amy. Is Super_Caterpillar_27 from Reddit still on here, by any chance?

 

[fsngruv]

I mean, you're saying testifying under oath doesn't make a statement automatically accurate while also pushing a narrative that relies on the belief that random speculation makes a statement accurate. If I'm a betting person, I'm going with the testimony under oath >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> random speculation every damn time.

MOO.

I hear ya, but it appears that even Bradley's themselves, have made false testimony under oath, at least that's what the judge in their civil matters decided. Respectfully, I'd rather go with a federal judge ruling over witness testimony given under oath.

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

Then why do you think the lady in the picture do her make up and hair like that... You mean to tell me traffickers are gonna take all that time to fuss over her to make sure her hair and make up look like that, and for what reason, perhaps a side gig at beauty school???

What happens is that they advertise these girls so they can sell them to the highest bidder. So yes, they do take the time to fuss over her hair and makeup to make sure she looks somewhat put-together on these sites. This is painfully standard. The girls shouldn't look like they're in distress or like they haven't slept or that they've been drugged, even though all of those things are likely true. I'd encourage you to research escort sites or human trafficking. It will answer all these questions for you.

Based on experience.

 

[fsngruv]

This is exactly what I think it is, and I’ve been losing my mind because I can’t mention this on reddit. I think that this would have been testimony in the case dealing with the fake PI, who I’m not sure fully fleeced the Bradley’s. They seem to always put out calls begging for someone to claim something, true or not, in order to collect money, be on shows, or sue someone. All of this PI stuff started soon after their cases against Royal Caribbean were slapped down for them lying.

Also, people are very confused and keep saying that the Bradley’s paid the PI $200,000, which somehow proves they were never denying a fall due to Amy’s extreme intoxication or jumping in order to claim and collect money- only to find Amy. But the Bradley’s paid $20-24,000 to him, while the Center for Missing CHILDREN paid $186,000. Thy had definitely made more than $25,000 from this at that point, and have never stopped profiting, all while not expending much capital at all. Frank McCord, the parents boss, used to foot the bill, then the Ceneter for Missing and Exploited Children, and since they’ve just been making money from shows and donations and seemingly spending nothing to find Amy. And Brad’s media skankery is certainly aimed at the goofundme above finding any truth about Amy. Is Super_Caterpillar_27 from Reddit still on here, by any chance?

Ding ding! You make great points! Thanks for your input!

 

[BeginnerSleuther]

I hear ya, but it appears that even Bradley's themselves, have made false testimony under oath, at least that's what the judge in their civil matters decided. Respectfully, I'd rather go with a federal judge ruling over witness testimony given under oath.

The federal judge ruling that they "exaggerated" some things has nothing to do with the witness testimony. That isn't an either/or, as i fyou have to go with one over the other.

MOO.

 

[fsngruv]

What happens is that they advertise these girls so they can sell them to the highest bidder. So yes, they do take the time to fuss over her hair and makeup to make sure she looks somewhat put-together on these sites. This is painfully standard. The girls shouldn't look like they're in distress or like they haven't slept or that they've been drugged, even though all of those things are likely true. I'd encourage you to research escort sites or human trafficking. It will answer all these questions for you.

Based on experience.

It was stated on Dr. Phil and nearly all articles and documentaries that the photo was likely just used on a website advertising prostitution and could've been harvested from anywhere. Not necessarily an advertisement for that prostitute. We do not know if the woman in the photo is even a prostitute. She might've been a regular lady just taking photos of herself. Ofc it could be someone being forced into sex work, or someone taking photos promoting their own sex work, or it could be someone else talking those photos because they wanted to.... We just don't know.

I agree, if it is Amy in the photos, she definitely didn't do her own hair and make up, and the care and consideration taken on her appearance is striking to me, and that too is based on my own experience, for whatever that's worth.

Many sex workers on websites also appear to have bruises or don't even show faces at all. But again. Jmo/e.

 

[JohnMuir]

<mod snip origianl post removed>

Honestly, I think they went home soon after the cruise to get their story straight, but more importantly, to hunker down in America while they waited to see what facts the cruise line could prove- did they have anything on camera, was whatever Brad did on the top deck seen, was the Dad’s confrontation seen, who entered the room at 3:35-3:40, whether the ship had footage to prove she never left the cabin (sometimes I think this is why the balcony door was “open,” maybe the family was trying to imply that someone came in from a neighboring balcony, entered the room, and snatched her (I know that’s insane but they say more insane stuff every day). They didn’t even want the ship to look into the balcony (and any footage, which didn’t exist) at all- just lock things up and check out the people who are less white than us! I read in the NYT that they didn’t report the missing daughter to the ship until 7:35- when passengers were already departing. So I don’t believe that the ship was a hindrance- they sounded coddling to me. The Bradley’s hindered the search by pretending drunk people who are miserable and sunburned can’t stumble or want to get away from all of the seemingly insurmountable obstacles in their lives.

To me, the most suspicious thing is Brad’s lie-convo with Amy. It is made up wholly of lies to prove their narrative. Amy was groped by some dude (if anything, she put her hand on Yellow and held his hands)- outsiders involved, foreign, even!! Amy was excited to try to ride jet skis with Brad the next day (sometimes she can’t have jumped- she was excited. The girl I saw dancing was puking the next day, not doing water sports). And they both said I love you to each other, because Brad and Amy are the best buds in the world- so close that they appear to be dating!

This is pretty recent but may be operating with old quotes, and it’s pretty creepy:

The Mysterious Disappearance of Amy Bradley - Unsolved Mysteries

How did a young woman disappear on a Caribbean cruise? Where is Amy Bradley? Read more about this mystery and watch the case now.

unsolved.com

This quote is very troubling:

“She was reluctant about going up to the railing. But her dad and brother both said, “Come up here. We’ll hold onto you.”

The balcony isn’t up. It’s over. And having two men hold onto me up on the balcony sounds like hell. What kind of quote is that, Iva?

And of course, this old saw:

“Amy would have been a trophy. Amy would have been someone that, I believe, could have been picked out and fingered to move off of that ship. She could have been held and hidden. She could have been possibly drugged and taken from that ship.”
“There’s rumor and legend surrounding slavery in the southern Caribbean. It’s not uncommon knowledge in the maritime community that young white women are considered to be very desirable to foreign procurers.”

I’ll always be a bit agog at the fact that Iva and the family chose to hang all of their hopes on rumor and legend instead of the fact that their daughter was on the balcony, drunk, burned and sad. Ron heard a noise, and then she was gone. He even went to the balcony. They know. Unless rumor and legend could help them sue someone or sell a racist tale to grossly credulous, full-on rubes.

 

[Quill]

I hear ya, but it appears that even Bradley's themselves, have made false testimony under oath, at least that's what the judge in their civil matters decided. Respectfully, I'd rather go with a federal judge ruling over witness testimony given under oath.

Actually, I think it was more withholding rather than lying. It's always been odd to me that you could be charged with that. They apparently were accused of not bringing forward witnesses that would have refuted their other witnesses. Make sense? Not to me. Any way, that whole lawsuit is a spiderweb of epic proportions and a lot of it is really crazy. They basically got clobbered by huge corporation who was willing to do whatever it took to take them down and shut them up. They are also not allowed to talk about it, hence why they do not defend themselves in the public eye.

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Honestly, I think they went home soon after the cruise to get their story straight, but more importantly, to hunker down in America while they waited to see what facts the cruise line could prove- did they have anything on camera, was whatever Brad did on the top deck seen, was the Dad’s confrontation seen, who entered the room at 3:35-3:40, whether the ship had footage to prove she never left the cabin (sometimes I think this is why the balcony door was “open,” maybe the family was trying to imply that someone came in from a neighboring balcony, entered the room, and snatched her (I know that’s insane but they say more insane stuff every day). They didn’t even want the ship to look into the balcony (and any footage, which didn’t exist) at all- just lock things up and check out the people who are less white than us! I read in the NYT that they didn’t report the missing daughter to the ship until 7:35- when passengers were already departing. So I don’t believe that the ship was a hindrance- they sounded coddling to me. The Bradley’s hindered the search by pretending drunk people who are miserable and sunburned can’t stumble or want to get away from all of the seemingly insurmountable obstacles in their lives.

To me, the most suspicious thing is Brad’s lie-convo with Amy. It is made up wholly of lies to prove their narrative. Amy was groped by some dude (if anything, she put her hand on Yellow and held his hands)- outsiders involved, foreign, even!! Amy was excited to try to ride jet skis with Brad the next day (sometimes she can’t have jumped- she was excited. The girl I saw dancing was puking the next day, not doing water sports). And they both said I love you to each other, because Brad and Amy are the best buds in the world- so close that they appear to be dating!

This is pretty recent but may be operating with old quotes, and it’s pretty creepy:

The Mysterious Disappearance of Amy Bradley - Unsolved Mysteries

How did a young woman disappear on a Caribbean cruise? Where is Amy Bradley? Read more about this mystery and watch the case now.

unsolved.com

This quote is very troubling:

“She was reluctant about going up to the railing. But her dad and brother both said, “Come up here. We’ll hold onto you.”

The balcony isn’t up. It’s over. And having two men hold onto me up on the balcony sounds like hell. What kind of quote is that, Iva?

And of course, this old saw:

“Amy would have been a trophy. Amy would have been someone that, I believe, could have been picked out and fingered to move off of that ship. She could have been held and hidden. She could have been possibly drugged and taken from that ship.”
“There’s rumor and legend surrounding slavery in the southern Caribbean. It’s not uncommon knowledge in the maritime community that young white women are considered to be very desirable to foreign procurers.”

I’ll always be a bit agog at the fact that Iva and the family chose to hang all of their hopes on rumor and legend instead of the fact that their daughter was on the balcony, drunk, burned and sad. Ron heard a noise, and then she was gone. He even went to the balcony. They know. Unless rumor and legend could help them sue someone or sell a racist tale to grossly credulous, full-on rubes.

The father and the brother know exactly what really happened to Amy that morning IMO. I'm not sure about the mother, but she must be a heavy sleeper if she didn't wake up... I believe that the father DID go to find Amy and Brad in the early hours and bought them back to the cabin. I think that an argument happened, leading to Amy jumping either then, or a bit later. It all happened earlier than the timeline that the father gave...

I feel that the cruise was some sort of intervention from the parents to try and straighten gay Amy out and it all went horrible wrong. The family wouldn't even consider that Amy had gone overboard - at least publicly. So they have come up with all of these ridiculous conspiracy theories, Scientology being the latest. Brad has recently started a Go Fund Me account, of which $21,734 US Dollars has so far been raised. The target is $50,000.

You couldn't make it up...

 

[fsngruv]

The federal judge ruling that they "exaggerated" some things has nothing to do with the witness testimony. That isn't an either/or, as i fyou have to go with one over the other.

MOO.

Thanka for printing that out. The word the judge used was not lie, but exagerrated. Which means to me, at the very least, their exaggerated comments, under oath, make their statements lack credibility. So exaggerated is the better word to use.

The judge ruled on the testimony given by the Bradley's, under oath, and he determined they committed fraud by exaggerating their statements under oath, the judge ruling doesn't reflect they were just exaggerating and it was no big deal, the judge thought they exaggerated so much so he ruled they committed fraud and dismissed their lawsuits.

You said you would take testimony under oath, because it being under oath should give it credence. And I agree that should be the case but it isn't always...

Many people testify under oath and lie or exaggerate, so to me the fact it's under oath doesn't necessarily give statement more credence since even the Bradley's "exaggerated" under oath.

 

[JohnMuir]

View attachment 603507
Interesting.

He was woken up in his room at 7 by the captain. So he wasn’t missing until 9. Brad is not being honest, or he is unfamiliar with the facts, which is why they change upon every retelling.

 

[lohrtabitha]

This is exactly what I think it is, and I’ve been losing my mind because I can’t mention this on reddit. I think that this would have been testimony in the case dealing with the fake PI, who I’m not sure fully fleeced the Bradley’s. They seem to always put out calls begging for someone to claim something, true or not, in order to collect money, be on television (now social media), or sue someone. I think they also seem to get a lot of satisfaction from keeping the daughter they wanted- not Amy, but the straight siren/trophy Iva thinks she deserved- alive and rewriting the story of Amy in the media (completely trampling her actual story). All of this PI stuff started soon after their cases against Royal Caribbean were slapped down for them lying, when they needed another angle to use if they wanted the big payout they think they deserve.

Also, people are very confused and keep saying that the Bradley’s paid the PI $220,000, which somehow proves they were never denying a fall due to Amy’s extreme intoxication or jumping in order to claim and collect money- only to find Amy (and that they can’t know that Amy landed in the water). But the Bradley’s paid $20-24,000 to him, while the Center for Missing CHILDREN paid $186,000. Thy had definitely made more than $25,000 from this tragedy at that point, and have never stopped profiting, all while not expending much capital at all. Nothing like the Holloways (although they sure didn’t pass up the opportunity to piggyback on her story to screech about white slavery and how every other culture sees young white women as prizes.). Frank McCord, the parents’ boss, used to foot the bill, then the Center for Missing and Exploited Children, and since they’ve just been making money from shows and donations and seemingly spending nothing to find Amy. And Brad’s media skankery is certainly aimed at the goofundme above finding any truth about Amy. Is Super_Caterpillar_27 from Reddit still on here, by any chance?

I dont agree with you. I don't think Amy's parents purpose suing RC was about the money. It was about getting justice. Royal Carribean did so many things wrong when Amy went missing. They said they searched the ship. The FBI found out that they never searched the crews quarters nor the passengers rooms. The searched public places like bathrooms. The search was not thorough. Amy's parents begged them to alert the passengers and not allow to for people to disembark. They didn't. Now, the game is changing. I posted a few threads back that the Port in Seattle has a program in tact that they use with their crew and passengers to watch out for human trafficking. Brad is trying to get cruiseslines to have an Amy Alert. Passengers would get texts with a description and perhaps photo of a passenger that's missing. This is great stuff. As a parent and someone who cruises, I hope this is implemented. Shame on those who victimize the victims. Walk in their shoes and gain some empathy. Moo

 

[Deleted member 363451]

This is exactly what I think it is, and I’ve been losing my mind because I can’t mention this on reddit. I think that this would have been testimony in the case dealing with the fake PI, who I’m not sure fully fleeced the Bradley’s. They seem to always put out calls begging for someone to claim something, true or not, in order to collect money, be on television (now social media), or sue someone. I think they also seem to get a lot of satisfaction from keeping the daughter they wanted- not Amy, but the straight siren/trophy Iva thinks she deserved- alive and rewriting the story of Amy in the media (completely trampling her actual story). All of this PI stuff started soon after their cases against Royal Caribbean were slapped down for them lying, when they needed another angle to use if they wanted the big payout they think they deserve.

Also, people are very confused and keep saying that the Bradley’s paid the PI $220,000, which somehow proves they were never denying a fall due to Amy’s extreme intoxication or jumping in order to claim and collect money- only to find Amy (and that they can’t know that Amy landed in the water). But the Bradley’s paid $20-24,000 to him, while the Center for Missing CHILDREN paid $186,000. Thy had definitely made more than $25,000 from this tragedy at that point, and have never stopped profiting, all while not expending much capital at all. Nothing like the Holloways (although they sure didn’t pass up the opportunity to piggyback on her story to screech about white slavery and how every other culture sees young white women as prizes.). Frank McCord, the parents’ boss, used to foot the bill, then the Center for Missing and Exploited Children, and since they’ve just been making money from shows and donations and seemingly spending nothing to find Amy. And Brad’s media skankery is certainly aimed at the goofundme above finding any truth about Amy. Is Super_Caterpillar_27 from Reddit still on here, by any chance?

Thank you for clarifying that, as the Bradley family defenders keep quoting that they paid $200,000 for the private investigator, when clearly that wasn't the case at all...

 

[lohrtabitha]

We all bring our own individual experiences to websleuths and that is why this is a great forum.
Not all experiences are identical obviously and things are often more complex than just one opinion.

Parents are just older people than us and they are imperfect just like us.

They have expectations for a child – and those expectations should not get in the way of who the child is or wants to become
but that is in a perfect world. That we why we have therapy and therapists.
And that is why for relationships to work constant communication helps along with an open mind

Children also have expectations of their parents – and oftentimes fail to see them as just people still finding their own way.

My bet is that the parents thoughts/ feelings and behavior around Amy’s sexual orientation were on a continuum – and evolved over time.

When people receive unexpected news it generally takes a while to really process that information logically and emotionally.

I know it takes a while for me when receiving unexpected news for my heart to catch up with my head /if that makes sense.

IME
IMO

Beautifully put and so true!

 

[Deleted member 363451]

Actually, I think it was more withholding rather than lying. It's always been odd to me that you could be charged with that. They apparently were accused of not bringing forward witnesses that would have refuted their other witnesses. Make sense? Not to me. Any way, that whole lawsuit is a spiderweb of epic proportions and a lot of it is really crazy. They basically got clobbered by huge corporation who was willing to do whatever it took to take them down and shut them up. They are also not allowed to talk about it, hence why they do not defend themselves in the public eye.

So they were suing the RC for negligence and 'wrongful death', meanwhile telling anyone who would listen that their daughter was still alive? How much money have they made from Amy's 'disappearance' to date, including the Go Fund Me?

 

[bettyboop]

Right. That's another thing I'm curious about, and have not been able to figure out by my searches, when did the federal grand jury witness testimony take place? For what reason?

@fsngruv , the information about the grand jury was in very old threads, but you should still be able to find it. I believe @otto brought the information forward and I recently saw it . There are about 9
pages that can be downloaded. I'm off to try and find it JMO MOO

 

[fsngruv]

Bringing up facts, relevant to the case, even if they are disparaging to the Bradley's is not victim blaming.
Personally I don't the Bradley's exaggerating under oath was done with malice intent. They were willing to do anything to find their daughter and they, for their own reasons, may push a narrative because they truly believe it, not because they are guilty of anything. I don't know how I feel about theories that suggest that much, but any theory is good as any other theory.
I do feel for the Bradley's and all they have endured, especially the fraud committed against them so early after she went missing.
They have made statements under oath that concern me, like the reason they withheld certain tips they received, especially ones that didn't support their theory... According to court documents shared in this thread, they state it's because they fear if they testified about all the tips it would endanger Amy... That's hard for me to wrap my head around.. but that's their reason, and it's as good as any... I guess. I don't blame them because some of that, I simply believe because of their choices and reasoning some of the information they provide may be biased or unreliable. Even when it comes to the Jaz photo... It came from a tip received by the Bradley's... But, they were doing all they could do to find her even making a website and taking in tips, so it seems their heart was in the right place, but they've been dupes by scammers before and I don't blame them for always holding to hope, but many people have exploted them because of their hope, it's unfortunate and confounding, but it might mean some of the tips they hold on to might not be entirely creditable. I don't blame them for hoping their daughter is alive. I hope she is too.

 

[bettyboop]

The search can only be as good as the information that search and rescue personnel were provided about Amy's disappearance from the balcony. The courts determined that the Bradleys withheld important information (see attached link to court documents) during their lawsuit against the cruise ship. Withholding information, at that time, was intended to support the claim that Amy was kidnapped by a cruise ship employee and forced into prostitution. A 5'6" tall person going over the railing has no financial benefit for relatives of that overboard person.

This does not mean that her family withheld important information about Amy's disappearance from the balcony, but it's possible. What time was she last seen on the balcony? This matters because it was used to identify the search area. If she disappeared at 5:00 or 6:00 AM matters.

Her father said that he saw her "leg" at 5:40 AM, but did he? Her father and brother provide the timeline for her disappearance, but perhaps they were mistaken. The fact that no remains were found does not mean that she did not go over the railing.

from 2018, @Hiandmighty

H

Post in thread 'Amy Bradley, 23, Disappeared from cruise ship en route to Curaçao, 24 March 1998 #4'

Apr 18, 2018

I had saved all of these links when they were first disclosed because I figured they would be lost. I forgot I still have them.

Scanned court documents: (Bradley vs Royal)

Cases dismissed: https://ibb.co/cQ3sqk
Page 1: https://ibb.co/eb27O5
Page 2: https://ibb.co/hxQSO5
Page 3: https://ibb.co/dVskAk
Page 4: https://ibb.co/d7UAbQ
Page 5: https://ibb.co/bx55Ak
Page 6: https://ibb.co/mtX7O5
Page 7: https://ibb.co/kPDsqk
Page 8: https://ibb.co/mQFNqk
Page 9: https://ibb.co/geoLbQ

• Hiandmighty

bringing this forward for everyone

 

[fsngruv]

@fsngruv , the information about the grand jury was in very old threads, but you should still be able to find it. I believe @otto brought the information forward and I recently saw it . There are about 9
pages that can be downloaded. I'm off to try and find it JMO MOO

Thank you so much! I've tried searching for it myself here in the threads, but they are massive and edited. I'm sure I it's been started on the forum and I may have even read them myself! Lol. Seems, the details surrounding the grand jury hearing were not remarkable or memorable to recall as easily as the other more memorable one and I'm a bit relieved I'm not alone. Thank you again, I appreciated you.