VA - Amy Bradley - missing from cruise ship, Curacao - 1998 #4

[RandyMcDonald]

I am going to side with the Navy and Coastguard who are experts in their field. Anything else is just speculation.

I think we are more than entitled to be skeptical of the claims. If the coast guard at San Francisco seven years later can miss bodies in a much narrower and lore restricted body of water, even bodies of people seen falling in, why should we expect much higher success rates elsewhere? The sea is famously good at keeping her secrets.

The assumption that Amy's body was intact, after the shock of an impact best equated to a car crash, is itself a huge one.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

Turning to the specific circumstances of Curaçao, one too-frequent occurrence is the discovery of boats carrying desperate migrants from Venezuela to Curaçao which regularly capsize. In many cases, only a few of the bodies are recovered. Many more are lost at sea.

4 Dead, 28 Missing After Venezuelan Migrant Boat Sinks

Boat was headed to nearby island Curacao

www.voanews.com

Curacao search for shipwrecked Venezuelan migrants

The Dutch Antilles has seen an increase in Venezuelans trying to escape the economic crisis at home.

www.bbc.com

Venezuelan families seek answers over migrants missing at sea

The families of Venezuelan migrants lost in the Caribbean sea are demanding their government investigate the disappearance of their loved ones after years of stasis.

www.reuters.com

 

[333_OnlyHalfEvil]

I think we are more than entitled to be skeptical of the claims. If the coast guard at San Francisco seven years later can miss bodies in a much narrower and lore restricted body of water, even bodies of people seen falling in, why should we expect much higher success rates elsewhere? The sea is famously good at keeping her secrets.

The assumption that Amy's body was intact, after the shock of an impact best equated to a car crash, is itself a huge one.

Is there any chance she got sucked into or stuck on/in something under the boat? Or would she have been found by now if so?

 

[RandyMcDonald]

Is there any chance she got sucked into or stuck on/in something under the boat? Or would she have been found by now if so?

Quite possibly her body could have been damaged, or take elsewhere.

I think we should keep in mind that even now, more than two decades later in the middle of a known Venezuelan refugee crisis with lots of boats en route capsizing, the Curaçao authorities do not find many bodies. The first article I shared reported only 4 bodies of 32 being recovered. Even when they look and know to look, the Curaçao authorities—with the benefit of technology more than two decades more advanced—have a low success rate. Which makes sense: The sea keeps its secrets.

 

[otto]

"The Marines, the Venezuelan Coast Guard, the Navy, everybody was looking in that area. Because of the position of the boat, wind force, sea current and the wave height, the body would have washed up. But she was nowhere to be found," Henry Vrutaal, a member of the Curaçao coast guard, recalled in Amy Bradley Is Missing."
From the documentary

The search can only be as good as the information that search and rescue personnel were provided about Amy's disappearance from the balcony. The courts determined that the Bradleys withheld important information (see attached link to court documents) during their lawsuit against the cruise ship. Withholding information, at that time, was intended to support the claim that Amy was kidnapped by a cruise ship employee and forced into prostitution. A 5'6" tall person going over the railing has no financial benefit for relatives of that overboard person.

This does not mean that her family withheld important information about Amy's disappearance from the balcony, but it's possible. What time was she last seen on the balcony? This matters because it was used to identify the search area. If she disappeared at 5:00 or 6:00 AM matters.

Her father said that he saw her "leg" at 5:40 AM, but did he? Her father and brother provide the timeline for her disappearance, but perhaps they were mistaken. The fact that no remains were found does not mean that she did not go over the railing.

from 2018, @Hiandmighty

H

Post in thread 'Amy Bradley, 23, Disappeared from cruise ship en route to Curaçao, 24 March 1998 #4'

Apr 18, 2018

I had saved all of these links when they were first disclosed because I figured they would be lost. I forgot I still have them.

Scanned court documents: (Bradley vs Royal)

Cases dismissed: https://ibb.co/cQ3sqk
Page 1: https://ibb.co/eb27O5
Page 2: https://ibb.co/hxQSO5
Page 3: https://ibb.co/dVskAk
Page 4: https://ibb.co/d7UAbQ
Page 5: https://ibb.co/bx55Ak
Page 6: https://ibb.co/mtX7O5
Page 7: https://ibb.co/kPDsqk
Page 8: https://ibb.co/mQFNqk
Page 9: https://ibb.co/geoLbQ

• Hiandmighty

 

[Serononin]

Is there any chance she got sucked into or stuck on/in something under the boat? Or would she have been found by now if so?

I have no idea, but I wondered the same thing

 

[otto]

Seems possible that after Amy fell from the 8th floor of the balcony, she could have been sucked under the ship. 10% of the ship is below the water line, so she fell roughly 70 or more feet. She would have hit the water as though it was concrete, gone below the surface by several feet, and could have been sucked under the ship by the 20-foot diameter propellers. This scenario is more likely than she vanished from the balcony and reappeared at an Island brothel (where no customers saw her and no one applied for the reward).

"Which Cruise Ships Have the Largest Propellers:
Royal Caribbean’s Oasis Class

These cruise ships tend to be the largest in the world. Their propellers are designed to have a diameter of six meters. The ship’s propulsion contains three 26,800-horsepower Azipods, which is an electric azimuth thruster."

Image link

 

[otto]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed> ... I am not blaming anyone for anything. I am linking to a comment that was posted in 2018 that contains links to court documents. Those court documents conclude that there was a "fraud against the court" regarding a lawsuit related to Amy Bradly.

That's not blaming. That's factual evidence that cannot be ignored. The courts determined that critical information about Amy's disappearance was withheld, so the lawsuit was dismissed.

Read the documents:

H

Post in thread 'Amy Bradley, 23, Disappeared from cruise ship en route to Curaçao, 24 March 1998 #4'

Apr 18, 2018

I had saved all of these links when they were first disclosed because I figured they would be lost. I forgot I still have them.

Scanned court documents: (Bradley vs Royal)

Cases dismissed: https://ibb.co/cQ3sqk
Page 1: https://ibb.co/eb27O5
Page 2: https://ibb.co/hxQSO5
Page 3: https://ibb.co/dVskAk
Page 4: https://ibb.co/d7UAbQ
Page 5: https://ibb.co/bx55Ak
Page 6: https://ibb.co/mtX7O5
Page 7: https://ibb.co/kPDsqk
Page 8: https://ibb.co/mQFNqk
Page 9: https://ibb.co/geoLbQ

• Hiandmighty

 

[333_OnlyHalfEvil]

What would happen to a body that comes in contact with the propellers? Would it stay largely intact?

 

[TizerisT]

No. That would be a gruesome end.

 

[RandyMcDonald]

No. That would be a gruesome end.

It would also not be a scenario where the body would be intact and plausibly recoverable.

 

[osu]

I’m new to this case but saw the article below the other day about what is described as a “Caucasian jawbone” that washed up on a shore in 2010 near Aruba. At the time the jaw bone was tested to see if it belonged to Natalee Holloway but it was never tested to see if it was Amy? Does anyone know why it was never tested?

A jawbone washed up on a shore near where Amy Bradley went missing but wasn’t DNA tested​

Amy Bradley went missing whilst she was on a Royal Caribbean cruise, and was last seen in March 1998, when the ship was on its way to Curaçao. Amy was last seen in the early hours of March 24th 1998, as the cruise sailed from Oranjestad, Aruba, to Curaçao.

~snip

In 2010, local authorities discovered a jawbone that washed up on a beach in Aruba. It was believed to belong to a Caucasian.

There was another missing persons case around the same time as this discovery, and that was 18-year-old Natalee Holloway. She had gone missing five years prior, in 2005. The jawbone was tested and found to not belong to Natalee, but no such testing was carried out to see if it belonged to Amy Bradley.

The discovery awoke the Amy Bradley case at the time. Many publications, including CNN, questioned if the bone could have belonged to Amy. It was noted that similarly to the Bradley family, Natalee’s parents complained of a lack of urgency by the authorities in the area.

~snip

A jawbone washed up on a shore near where Amy Bradley went missing but wasn't DNA tested

It was confirmed to not be another missing girl, but no DNA tests for Amy were done

thetab.com

 

[Quill]

I’m new to this case but saw the article below the other day about what is described as a “Caucasian jawbone” that washed up on a shore in 2010 near Aruba. At the time the jaw bone was tested to see if it belonged to Natalee Holloway but it was never tested to see if it was Amy? Does anyone know why it was never tested?

A jawbone washed up on a shore near where Amy Bradley went missing but wasn’t DNA tested​

Amy Bradley went missing whilst she was on a Royal Caribbean cruise, and was last seen in March 1998, when the ship was on its way to Curaçao. Amy was last seen in the early hours of March 24th 1998, as the cruise sailed from Oranjestad, Aruba, to Curaçao.

~snip

In 2010, local authorities discovered a jawbone that washed up on a beach in Aruba. It was believed to belong to a Caucasian.

There was another missing persons case around the same time as this discovery, and that was 18-year-old Natalee Holloway. She had gone missing five years prior, in 2005. The jawbone was tested and found to not belong to Natalee, but no such testing was carried out to see if it belonged to Amy Bradley.

The discovery awoke the Amy Bradley case at the time. Many publications, including CNN, questioned if the bone could have belonged to Amy. It was noted that similarly to the Bradley family, Natalee’s parents complained of a lack of urgency by the authorities in the area.

~snip

A jawbone washed up on a shore near where Amy Bradley went missing but wasn't DNA tested

It was confirmed to not be another missing girl, but no DNA tests for Amy were done

thetab.com

I have always wondered if the jawbone could have been male and that stopped any further investigation of it being Amy. JMO

 

[adot0902]

I’m new to this case but saw the article below the other day about what is described as a “Caucasian jawbone” that washed up on a shore in 2010 near Aruba. At the time the jaw bone was tested to see if it belonged to Natalee Holloway but it was never tested to see if it was Amy? Does anyone know why it was never tested?

A jawbone washed up on a shore near where Amy Bradley went missing but wasn’t DNA tested​

Amy Bradley went missing whilst she was on a Royal Caribbean cruise, and was last seen in March 1998, when the ship was on its way to Curaçao. Amy was last seen in the early hours of March 24th 1998, as the cruise sailed from Oranjestad, Aruba, to Curaçao.

~snip

In 2010, local authorities discovered a jawbone that washed up on a beach in Aruba. It was believed to belong to a Caucasian.

There was another missing persons case around the same time as this discovery, and that was 18-year-old Natalee Holloway. She had gone missing five years prior, in 2005. The jawbone was tested and found to not belong to Natalee, but no such testing was carried out to see if it belonged to Amy Bradley.

The discovery awoke the Amy Bradley case at the time. Many publications, including CNN, questioned if the bone could have belonged to Amy. It was noted that similarly to the Bradley family, Natalee’s parents complained of a lack of urgency by the authorities in the area.

~snip

A jawbone washed up on a shore near where Amy Bradley went missing but wasn't DNA tested

It was confirmed to not be another missing girl, but no DNA tests for Amy were done

thetab.com

This is why I really struggle with this case, every time someone makes a post of information I can 100% agree with it and 100% disagree with it depending what source I am using. Information has been provided I'm linking below that the jaw bone could potentially be old (like very old), then in the same story you have information that they know it's not Natalee's for sure because they did test the DNA that was found on the jaw bone against her. Why not test the DNA against Amy Bradley and be done with it.

Also please note my frustration is not with your post, your post is fantastic, it's the overall tone. Because when I started following I was 100% sure on my theory, I've be 100% convinced on about 4 things at this point and I can make good arguments for all of them.

Natalee Holloway Update: Bone Not from Teen, Could it be from Archaeological Site?

Bone was Found on Beach by Tourist

www.cbsnews.com

 

[RandyMcDonald]

I’m new to this case but saw the article below the other day about what is described as a “Caucasian jawbone” that washed up on a shore in 2010 near Aruba. At the time the jaw bone was tested to see if it belonged to Natalee Holloway but it was never tested to see if it was Amy? Does anyone know why it was never tested?

A jawbone washed up on a shore near where Amy Bradley went missing but wasn’t DNA tested​

Amy Bradley went missing whilst she was on a Royal Caribbean cruise, and was last seen in March 1998, when the ship was on its way to Curaçao. Amy was last seen in the early hours of March 24th 1998, as the cruise sailed from Oranjestad, Aruba, to Curaçao.

~snip

In 2010, local authorities discovered a jawbone that washed up on a beach in Aruba. It was believed to belong to a Caucasian.

There was another missing persons case around the same time as this discovery, and that was 18-year-old Natalee Holloway. She had gone missing five years prior, in 2005. The jawbone was tested and found to not belong to Natalee, but no such testing was carried out to see if it belonged to Amy Bradley.

The discovery awoke the Amy Bradley case at the time. Many publications, including CNN, questioned if the bone could have belonged to Amy. It was noted that similarly to the Bradley family, Natalee’s parents complained of a lack of urgency by the authorities in the area.

~snip

A jawbone washed up on a shore near where Amy Bradley went missing but wasn't DNA tested

It was confirmed to not be another missing girl, but no DNA tests for Amy were done

thetab.com

One possibility could be that finding a jawbone and identifying it as Amy's would be definitive proof that Amy was dead. That would be a finding that would be incompatible with life, unless you went for the idea that she was being advanced medical care by her captors (why?).

On balance I do not think it very likely to have been Amy's. Even before the post-2015 meltdown of the Venezuelan economy—the country's GDP has shrunk by more than 70%, making a country historically one of the richest in South America now one of the poorest—the waters around Curaçao were another frontier between the rich world and the poor world. Many people trying to cross them had died, often unnoticed, on top of the normal numbers of dead from other sorts of maritime accidents.

 

[333_OnlyHalfEvil]

It would also not be a scenario where the body would be intact and plausibly recoverable.

Would it still be somewhat recognizable or would ... I'm trying to be respectful here but there's really no other way to ask, would the parts be small enough that they could disperse and no one notice anything?

 

[MrEmc]

I’m new to this case but saw the article below the other day about what is described as a “Caucasian jawbone” that washed up on a shore in 2010 near Aruba. At the time the jaw bone was tested to see if it belonged to Natalee Holloway but it was never tested to see if it was Amy? Does anyone know why it was never tested?

A jawbone washed up on a shore near where Amy Bradley went missing but wasn’t DNA tested​

Amy Bradley went missing whilst she was on a Royal Caribbean cruise, and was last seen in March 1998, when the ship was on its way to Curaçao. Amy was last seen in the early hours of March 24th 1998, as the cruise sailed from Oranjestad, Aruba, to Curaçao.

~snip

In 2010, local authorities discovered a jawbone that washed up on a beach in Aruba. It was believed to belong to a Caucasian.

There was another missing persons case around the same time as this discovery, and that was 18-year-old Natalee Holloway. She had gone missing five years prior, in 2005. The jawbone was tested and found to not belong to Natalee, but no such testing was carried out to see if it belonged to Amy Bradley.

The discovery awoke the Amy Bradley case at the time. Many publications, including CNN, questioned if the bone could have belonged to Amy. It was noted that similarly to the Bradley family, Natalee’s parents complained of a lack of urgency by the authorities in the area.

~snip

A jawbone washed up on a shore near where Amy Bradley went missing but wasn't DNA tested

It was confirmed to not be another missing girl, but no DNA tests for Amy were done

thetab.com

The jawbone didn't need to be tested to rule out belonging to Natalee Holloway- the jawbone contained a wisdom tooth, and Natalee's were removed prior to her disappearance.

Perhaps Amy also had her wisdom teeth removed prior to her disappearance. If so, then the jawbone can be ruled out as belonging to her as well. Does anyone know?

Natalee Holloway: Jawbone Not That of Missing American Teen

 

[RandyMcDonald]

Would it still be somewhat recognizable or would ... I'm trying to be respectful here but there's really no other way to ask, would the parts be small enough that they could disperse and no one notice anything?

Quite possibly.

As I noted earlier in the thread, that article on Golden Gate Bridge jumpers made the point that the presumption that bodies will float, buoyed by gases of decomposition including on body cavities, holds only if those cavities were not punctured. If they were punctured, for instance by the combination of a high speed impact with the water and the action of propeller blades, then the remains would not float. They would presumably be scattered on the sea floor, exposed to the sea environment and the life inside the waters. Perhaps some bones might eventually be washed on shore?

The Caribbean is much warmer, and much more hospitable to marine life, than either Lake Ontario or Charlottetown Harbour.

 

[Mica]

Seems possible that after Amy fell from the 8th floor of the balcony, she could have been sucked under the ship. 10% of the ship is below the water line, so she fell roughly 70 or more feet. She would have hit the water as though it was concrete, gone below the surface by several feet, and could have been sucked under the ship by the 20-foot diameter propellers. This scenario is more likely than she vanished from the balcony and reappeared at an Island brothel (where no customers saw her and no one applied for the reward).

"Which Cruise Ships Have the Largest Propellers:
Royal Caribbean’s Oasis Class

These cruise ships tend to be the largest in the world. Their propellers are designed to have a diameter of six meters. The ship’s propulsion contains three 26,800-horsepower Azipods, which is an electric azimuth thruster."

View attachment 603645
Image link

In looking at the ship and the location of the life boats, there is the possibility Amy would have hit one of the boats if she fell off the ship, IMO. The Bradley’s cabin was about 16-17 rooms from the back of the ship (starboard).

 

[Beckycott]

IMO if she’s had jumped/fallen off the side, something… anything… would have washed up. Even a small piece of clothing, a shoe or something. JMO