VA - Amy Bradley - missing from cruise ship, Curacao - 1998 #4

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  • #101
Any time someone makes adamant statements in a missing person's case, I'm reminded of the sonar guy who said that Nicola Bulley couldn't possibly be in the section of the river that her body was, in fact, found in shortly afterwards

yes, this is a fair point for everyone to remember no matter if you're in the fell/jumped/tossed overboard camp or trafficked camp. we can all lean one way or another, but since nobody knows what happened it's just plain illogical to be adamant that one scenario absolutely did not happen.
MOO
 
  • #102
The thing about water searches is, it deals with the ocean - the most unpredictable environment and the only place humans cannot control

A 'full search' could be nothing more than 'we had a look' honestly
 
  • #103
Remember Cameron Robbins who was partying on that pirate ship themed cruise boat...everyone video taped him jumping off...thought a shark was spotted..and his body has never been recovered.
Bahamas May 2023
 
  • #104
Also, regarding how hard oceans are, consider it this way
Voyager 1, from 1977, is currently over 15 billion miles away, and is unthreatened
Challenger Deep is 7 miles away, and requires major tech to survive the environment
 
  • #105
Or is this the perfect alibi? If he is just the runner/middle man/delivery guy, then making a point of going to speak to the family after the fact sounds like a perfect alibi to me, JMO.

Also, what does everybody think of the photographs going missing? Seems odd that they were there one minute then somebody has purchased or took them but it wasn’t any of the family members - IMO this fits with some sort of trafficking. For example if somebody purchased the photos to pass on to the OCG.. or I may have been watching too much CSI!

JMO
I agree with you. That waiter really wanted to get Amy off the ship to go to the famed bar. I thought that was weird. Especially, when the crew is not supposed to fratenize with the guests. Moo
 
  • #106
I know, but look at the speed required. They dock at 6, and are not near the town. Its oil drums and warehouses in that area. Somehow, he was on the ship at 7, looking normal and on duty. Unless he did it all in an hour? Thats what it boils down to. And all this in the days before mobile wifi, could he realistically plan a set up?
There could have been an accomplice. I'm sure supplying sex traffickers with the goods pays more than what is made on the cruise boats. Imo
 
  • #107
Her dad says he saw her legs on the cabin balcony early that morning, then wakes up a short time later and she’s gone. Immediately, they jump to abduction. Why go scorched earth that fast?

Amy was 23. Her parents were fine with her going to the disco while they went back to the cabin. Her brother heads back to the cabin even before her from the disco. AB is fine to be alone. Everything was supposedly fine that night with I love you’s according to her brother. Then suddenly it is full crisis the moment she is not in the room.

That kind of reaction only makes sense (to me) if something else happened. Maybe there was an argument or she said something that alarmed them or one of them. I do not believe they went into full panic mode over an adult not in the room at 6am ish unless they were already worried about her mindset. As my dear Appalachian grandma would say- start truth talkin. imo
 
  • #108
James Renner is the Champion. Game Over.
 
  • #109
Remember Cameron Robbins who was partying on that pirate ship themed cruise boat...everyone video taped him jumping off...thought a shark was spotted..and his body has never been recovered.
Bahamas May 2023
That was so sad. I had no idea sharks regularly followed cruise ships until that happened and I went down a rabbit hole. It makes perfect sense they would, but it had never occurred to me until then. Just awful.
 
  • #110
There could have been an accomplice. I'm sure supplying sex traffickers with the goods pays more than what is made on the cruise boats. Imo
Yeah, but look a bit closer.
Yellow would have needed to do this operation cleanly in 1 hour
No international cellphones at the time, a meeting could not have been set up
With no cellphone to arrange a kidnap in advance, it leaves the chances of there being a buyer at 6.00 - 7.00 rather remote.. Did he just knock on their door?
 
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  • #111
yes, this is a fair point for everyone to remember no matter if you're in the fell/jumped/tossed overboard camp or trafficked camp. we can all lean one way or another, but since nobody knows what happened it's just plain illogical to be adamant that one scenario absolutely did not happen.
MOO
The problem comes when the alternative scenarios are not credible.

This is not, say, like the question of whether three men managed to escape from Alcatraz in 1962. We know that it would have been very difficult, but we know it was survivable, and there seem to be enough claims of different people having seen some of these people to at least make this seem possible. There also is not any evidence, like their bodies, suggesting they necessarily died.

This is much more like the idea of whether Jimmy Hoffa, far from getting killed by the mob, had actually decided that day in Detroit to abandon everything and go off to live on a remote Pacific island. Sure, maybe it is possible that Hoffa was tired of everything--the weather, his family, the union, the politics, all of it--and that he had connections no one in his life knew about that he could use to relocate himself without anyone knowing. That is technically possible, sure, but it is also really contrived. Advancing an alternative hypothesis is one thing, but if you are going to take it as being a credible alternative it has to be somewhat credible. Arguing that this Pacific hypothesis is just as worthy of consideration as the idea he was killed by the Mafia seems like fallacious reasoning.

This is especially the case given that the sex trafficking hypothesis seems to have been created out of nothing by family members, people who have literally been found to have lied under oath in court with the goal of not introducing any claimed sightings that could contradict their story.


If anything, the Netflix documentary has given greater context to the family's claims and the reason for the claims. They were never that plausible, requiring sex traffickers to behave in hugely risky ways that did not make sense for them. Kidnapping random tourists? Letting them travel freely across borders? The documentary provides a lot of evidence that suggests this could be a weird sort of mutation with their pre-disappearance concern over how Amy was not being straight and heteronormative enough for them, a fixation that never had a chance to evolve because it was caught in amber by Amy's disappearance.

Compare how the Sodder family insisted that the missing Sodder children were alive, removed by a conspiracy at once so powerful as to abduct five children from inside a burning house yet so weak as to allow them to live and send occasional ambiguous signs they were alive. The children certainly had not been killed in a house fire triggered by faulty wiring that at least two different people warned them about, and they surely had not missed the few remains left after a long hot fire.
 
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  • #112
That was so sad. I had no idea sharks regularly followed cruise ships until that happened and I went down a rabbit hole. It makes perfect sense they would, but it had never occurred to me until then. Just awful.
Sharks are reasonably smart animals, capable of observational learning. They can plausibly learn that food will be in abundance around big ships.

During the slave trade, there does seem to be some evidence that sharks consistently followed slave ships in their passage across the Atlantic, because they recognized that slaves (dead or alive) would be regularly thrown in. (The suggestion that the Middle Passage permanently altered shark migration routes seems less credible but perhaps worth considering.)



 
  • #113
Yeah, but look a bit closer.
Yellow would have needed to do this operation cleanly in 1 hour
No international cellphones at the time, a meeting could not have been set up
With no cellphone to arrange a kidnap in advance, it leaves the chances of there being a buyer at 6.00 - 7.00 rather remote.. Did he just knock on their door?
I dont think it would have been hard. One of the witnesses saw Yellow hand Amy a drink. That drink could have drugged her. Yellow could have passed her off to someone else on the boat and they could have simply walked her off the boat along with the other passengers or carted her off the boat. There was not just one witness but three witnesses who testified before the grand jury. Why would they lie? He is a pretty rememberable character. He also was interested in Amy. You don't dance that way with someone you have no interest with.
 
  • #114
Her dad says he saw her legs on the cabin balcony early that morning, then wakes up a short time later and she’s gone. Immediately, they jump to abduction. Why go scorched earth that fast?

Amy was 23. Her parents were fine with her going to the disco while they went back to the cabin. Her brother heads back to the cabin even before her from the disco. AB is fine to be alone. Everything was supposedly fine that night with I love you’s according to her brother. Then suddenly it is full crisis the moment she is not in the room.

That kind of reaction only makes sense (to me) if something else happened. Maybe there was an argument or she said something that alarmed them or one of them. I do not believe they went into full panic mode over an adult not in the room at 6am ish unless they were already worried about her mindset. As my dear Appalachian grandma would say- start truth talkin. imo
Maybe they had plans to disembark the boat together at 7am. Many families that cruise book excursions and you have to meet your tour group quickly. That's what my family does. It's kind of a hectic process.
 
  • #115
James Renner is the Champion. Game Over.
James who? That was 18 minutes of my life I will not get back. This guy asked some ludicrous questions for an amateur crime podcaster. How about asking if she remembers a cool cartoon tattoo on her shoulder? That would be something memorable considering this woman was young at the time.
The woman seems semi-credible because I do believe she knew a woman named Jas/Jazz who was working as a call girl in Daytona Bach Florida when she lived there, but this woman was likely not Amy Bradley.
On a more salient note can someone please explain where the alleged "foot prints" found on the balcony table rumor came from? Was the table against the railing when it was found?

Something is amiss here, and some people seem to be vehemently pushing this "off the boat" and still alive somewhere narrative which honestly makes zero sense. We cannot just ignore simple facts relevant to the case. One is that Amy Bradley was by all accounts a lesbian who clearly preferred relationships with women. Maybe the family, including her brother are still in denial of her homosexuality, but just looking at her pics from the time. she had a very 90's alpha butch look to her. Short hair, baggy jeans. The point being is she wasn't interested in Yellow, or any other man, and likely was just having a good time under the influence when she danced with Yellow. If there was some nefarious scheme to kidnap her into the sex trafficking trade, they picked the wrong woman.
That being said I cannot see any logical scenario outside of her having an undisclosed drug habit where she could have landed in the sex trafficking trade in the Caribbean. Traffickers simply do not generally target Caucasian women in their twenties on vacation with their families. It's mostly young, and vulnerable migrants from places like Venezuela who are victimized in that sad regional trade.

Sorry to be pessimistic here, but I think the ship long sailed off in this case no pun intended. And if I was a betting man I'd say the simplest explanation is that she went overboard on her own, or with help. It happens. When I was in the Navy, we lost more than a few sailors on long deployments on the carrier cruises. An aircraft carrier is like a floating city, and drunken fights, suicides etc are more common than you would think. I remember hearing at least one man overboard alert on the comm, and I remember asking a chief in my squadron later why the boat didn't stop to look for them. He just chuckled and said "just try not to fall off the boat kid" and walked away. I know some people would call that callous, but it's reality. Just like the cruise ship guy in the Netflix series said "In the end this is a business" The other 2000 guests did not ask for one woman to go missing, and potentially ruin their dream vacation. You can empathize with the family's panic at the time, but for them to demand they keep people on the boat was incredibly selfish in my opinion.
 
  • #116
The problem comes when the alternative scenarios are not credible.

This is not, say, like the question of whether three men managed to escape from Alcatraz in 1962. We know that it would have been very difficult, but we know it was survivable, and there seem to be enough claims of different people having seen some of these people to at least make this seem possible. There also is not any evidence, like their bodies, suggesting they necessarily died.

This is much more like the idea of whether Jimmy Hoffa, far from getting killed by the mob, had actually decided that day in Detroit to abandon everything and go off to live on a remote Pacific island. Sure, maybe it is possible that Hoffa was tired of everything--the weather, his family, the union, the politics, all of it--and that he had connections no one in his life knew about that he could use to relocate himself without anyone knowing. That is technically possible, sure, but it is also really contrived. Advancing an alternative hypothesis is one thing, but if you are going to take it as being a credible alternative it has to be somewhat credible. Arguing that this Pacific hypothesis is just as worthy of consideration as the idea he was killed by the Mafia seems like fallacious reasoning.

This is especially the case given that the sex trafficking hypothesis seems to have been created out of nothing by family members, people who have literally been found to have lied under oath in court with the goal of not introducing any claimed sightings that could contradict their story.


If anything, the Netflix documentary has given greater context to the family's claims and the reason for the claims. They were never that plausible, requiring sex traffickers to behave in hugely risky ways that did not make sense for them. Kidnapping random tourists? Letting them travel freely across borders? The documentary provides a lot of evidence that suggests this could be a weird sort of mutation with their pre-disappearance concern over how Amy was not being straight and heteronormative enough for them, a fixation that never had a chance to evolve because it was caught in amber by Amy's disappearance.

Compare how the Sodder family insisted that the missing Sodder children were alive, removed by a conspiracy at once so powerful as to abduct five children from inside a burning house yet so weak as to allow them to live and send occasional ambiguous signs they were alive. The children certainly had not been killed in a house fire triggered by faulty wiring that at least two different people warned them about, and they surely had not missed the few remains left after a long hot fire.
You missed my point. Just because we, as non criminals/human traffickers (at least i hope), cannot wrap our heads around why she would’ve been taken or why xyz would’ve happened, doesn’t mean it’s impossible. There are a lot of things that have happened in the world that I would’ve never ever thought possible and still struggle to believe actually occurred. I was on the bus to high school on 9/11/2001 and when it was announced on the radio that a plane hit a tower in NYC I thought it was an accidental crash. When I later saw the footage and found out it was terrorism I couldn’t believe it, and frankly still struggle to truly grasp it. Out of all the flights that happen every single day, crashes are rare, and intentional crashes into buildings even rarer. Does that mean it didn’t happen and we all imagined it? Again, Statistics do not equal actual hard evidence. You can use them to guide your thinking and support your theory, absolutely, but they can’t be used to outright dismiss something. Statistically rare things happen to people all the time.

Likewise, people who are adamant she was ST should consider many things like the picture isn’t an exact duplicate from photos of Amy, many people have a dead ringer doppelgänger in the world, it’s absolutely possible her body would’ve never been found even though they were close to port, we know all the issues with eyewitness testimony, etc

Discussion and skeptism for any/all of the theories is good IMO, but completely saying well that one for sure didn’t happen because I can’t make heads or tails of it is frankly just stupid when none of us have the answers.
MOO
 
  • #117
James who? That was 18 minutes of my life I will not get back. This guy asked some ludicrous questions for an amateur crime podcaster. How about asking if she remembers a cool cartoon tattoo on her shoulder? That would be something memorable considering this woman was young at the time.
The woman seems semi-credible because I do believe she knew a woman named Jas/Jazz who was working as a call girl in Daytona Bach Florida when she lived there, but this woman was likely not Amy Bradley.
On a more salient note can someone please explain where the alleged "foot prints" found on the balcony table rumor came from? Was the table against the railing when it was found?

Something is amiss here, and some people seem to be vehemently pushing this "off the boat" and still alive somewhere narrative which honestly makes zero sense. We cannot just ignore simple facts relevant to the case. One is that Amy Bradley was by all accounts a lesbian who clearly preferred relationships with women. Maybe the family, including her brother are still in denial of her homosexuality, but just looking at her pics from the time. she had a very 90's alpha butch look to her. Short hair, baggy jeans. The point being is she wasn't interested in Yellow, or any other man, and likely was just having a good time under the influence when she danced with Yellow. If there was some nefarious scheme to kidnap her into the sex trafficking trade, they picked the wrong woman.
That being said I cannot see any logical scenario outside of her having an undisclosed drug habit where she could have landed in the sex trafficking trade in the Caribbean. Traffickers simply do not generally target Caucasian women in their twenties on vacation with their families. It's mostly young, and vulnerable migrants from places like Venezuela who are victimized in that sad regional trade.

Sorry to be pessimistic here, but I think the ship long sailed off in this case no pun intended. And if I was a betting man I'd say the simplest explanation is that she went overboard on her own, or with help. It happens. When I was in the Navy, we lost more than a few sailors on long deployments on the carrier cruises. An aircraft carrier is like a floating city, and drunken fights, suicides etc are more common than you would think. I remember hearing at least one man overboard alert on the comm, and I remember asking a chief in my squadron later why the boat didn't stop to look for them. He just chuckled and said "just try not to fall off the boat kid" and walked away. I know some people would call that callous, but it's reality. Just like the cruise ship guy in the Netflix series said "In the end this is a business" The other 2000 guests did not ask for one woman to go missing, and potentially ruin their dream vacation. You can empathize with the family's panic at the time, but for them to demand they keep people on the boat was incredibly selfish in my opinion.
Why would you take this sighting any differently than 2 teenagers drunk on a Cruise at 5-6am depending on the article? IMO the fact that she wanted to make sure the bedframe and background MATCHED the cropped face of 'Jas' before she confirmed SUSAN was 'Jas' gives her a lot of credibility-- as does the note of Jas is wearing a 'pad' in the photos as the witness described.

IMO She's 10000% telling the truth. It's not even my opinion. Soon to follow..
 
  • #118
Did LE not take any photos of Amy's balcony? Where the shoes were placed....and where the table was placed up against the balcony?
 
  • #119
I dont believe the table having footprints.
Amy took off her shoes, which were found on the balcony , went in to get another pair...only to stand on the table and jump? Doesn't make sense
 
  • #120
Did LE not take any photos of Amy's balcony? Where the shoes were placed....and where the table was placed up against the balcony?

I believe the room and balcony were cleaned by staff prior to the investigation. The room was not sealed.
 
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