VA - Anjelica "AJ" Hadsell, 18, Norfolk, 3 March 2015 #15

[221bBakerStreet]

Regrettably, being dumb, or even the dumbest, is not a crime in our society. Yet. I still hold out hope.

You're fun. Being dumb while committing felonies is thankfully still a crime. Hope is fantastic...but several posts have outlined compelling factual reasons WH's actions are suspect. Do not twist my words and say he is a suspect because I saw the Norfolk PD press release too. His actions are suspect.

I would certainly welcome a detailed analysis supporting why you do not believe he is involved. It's difficult to have a debate when one side has supporting documentation and the other side seemingly bases their decisions on instinct. I honestly feel it would be a constructive conversation because the focus is all in one direction (WH).

I look forward to your reply.

 

[Phoebeb]

I wonder if WH lifted some item from the ex-boyfriend's house during the (18 minute) break in that he later placed near the body at the Smiths Ferry Rd house. Something he could leave to implicate the ex-bf that could have quickly been placed at the scene (in the dark late at night), surely to be found at the time her body would be discovered.

I keep ending up back here too. An abandoned house along U.S. highway 258 as opposed to numerous backwoods areas or bodies of water. The back of the house as opposed to inside. Knowing AJ would eventually be found. It all seems hasty. Perhaps the vehicle wasn't 4-wheel drive so the perp couldn't go to some areas or perhaps he couldn't leave telltale mud on it. Still, there were less risky places.

 

[Eileen730]

Did she sneak out of the house to spend the night with someone? Boyfriend or maybe a girl friend?

If she did she would still have had her phone on!
JMO

 

[SeeAlice]

Caught up and still haven't seen any link or reference to a press conference (or any other statement) by LE. Anyone have a link for this?

I replied to your post with the link and the quote.

 

[Tealgrove]

I've been following but haven't posted since we received confirmation that it was AJ they found. For some reason, I bypassed "sad" and went straight to "furious" and I was afraid of ending up in timeout if I posted in that state of mind. I thought I was mentally prepared because I already suspected it was her that was discovered, but something snapped in me when it was confirmed. I was boiling over yesterday, but hopefully I can keep it down to a simmer today.

What I noticed about WH is that when he gets caught in a lie he can't fix, he does that contrite puppy dog routine and every other word is "yes sir - no sir" or "yes ma'am - no ma'am" depending on the gender of the person to whom he's speaking. He does this to manipulate, to diffuse the person who has him on the hot seat. I've seen this behavior before (uh oh, I feel those boiling bubbles again), and I've seen very smart, rational people be charmed by it. I think he's been doing this since he was young and I think it's been very effective for him. I think it works particularly well on women - mother, sister, girlfriends, wives - and he is accustomed to charming his way out of trouble with this false act of contrition. But when it doesn't work...when he is unable to charm his way out of rejection...when he can't isolate whomever he's trying to win over from those who would take a firm stand against him...well, I believe he does very desperate things at that point. I think it undoes him. And it is extremely significant to me that he began all the "yes-sir-no-sir-I'm-sorry-I-lied" bunk once he knew that his answers would be broadcast to the public. He did it to woo the people watching, just like he did it to woo anyone who might listen to his interview with shewhomustnotbenamed. I've seen people who exhibit this kind of behavior try to "win" the support and opinion of others in order to influence the person he's trying to win over. It makes it harder to reject him or stay mad at him when everyone else is saying "Aw, he seems really sorry. Don't you want to give him another chance?" They try to cajole others into pitying them, even asking them to plead his case to the offended party - whatever it takes to get what he wants.

I find it conceivable that things could have gone awry with AJ simply because she refused to bend when he tried to make her feel sorry for him or forgive him for whatever got him kicked out of the house. I have no doubt he was still in the throes of a manipulation campaign to weasel his way back into the house and and his marriage. If he wanted AJ to forgive him or help him in his efforts and she made it clear that she would work against him...he may have snapped. If he realized that AJ would not be swayed and that she was going to support her mother in keeping him away, his reaction could have been deadly. Heck, I can see her saying something as simple as "You're not my father any more, and I'm having my name legally changed from Hadsell to -------." That would have been enough for him to lose it, because he would have known she was serious. He saw how she turned her back on Zach. He would believe her if she said she was doing the same to him, and that would ruin his hopes of getting his home and family back on his own terms.

Agreed Agreed Agreed!

I have long thought that he was trying to use AJ to get back into her mother's good graces but I also have a very creepy feeling that it was more than that. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that AJ rejected him and not necessarily in a sexual way. If he couldn't control her and manipulate her into doing what HE NEEDED then he may have just snapped and took out his anger on AJ.

Very possible and a very logical angle.

 

[bessie]

The thread is re-opened for posting. You all should know the rules by now, but in case you need a refresher:

Rules: Etiquette & Information


Time outs will follow for name calling, personal attacks, and baiting. Don't expect a pm or a warning, because you won't get one.

 

[FleurQualia]

Let's continue to seek justice for beautiful AJ!

I hope new information is released soon. Part of me wonders if everything is going to become very silent until the COD is realeased and arrests made.

 

[SeeAlice]

You're fun. Being dumb while committing felonies is thankfully still a crime. Hope is fantastic...but several posts have outlined compelling factual reasons WH's actions are suspect. Do not twist my words and say he is a suspect because I saw the Norfolk PD press release too. His actions are suspect.

I would certainly welcome a detailed analysis supporting why you do not believe he is involved. It's difficult to have a debate when one side has supporting documentation and the other side seemingly bases their decisions on instinct. I honestly feel it would be a constructive conversation because the focus is all in one direction (WH).

I look forward to your reply.

I don't know about the documentation part. It seems people are able to take certain things as cause and use their insight to create an effect that I just can't see.

I think the US Constitution requires the presumption of innocence in court and, IMO, out of court if you are to be a good citizen. As such, the prosecution must prove an affirmative case, not make a defendant prove his innocence. Do I need to prove to anyone why I don't believe Eddie Murphy or my brother-in-law in Cincinnati didn't do it?

I don't understand the part about twisting & the press release.
JMO

 

[darring21]

Others have already said this but:

WH has a history of violence against women among other serious crimes.

He has admitted additional crimes.

He has admitted current drug abuse.

He has been caught lying about substantial facts regarding AJ disappearance.

There is certainly the possibility that he didn't have anything to do with it (and as someone said earlier, he would be very stupid because he is likely to go back to jail for the crimes he's already committed) and it is important to keep an open mind. Although none of the previous things are evidence of guilt, it certainly makes him the number one suspect.

 

[Lilibet]

It might be a good idea if the whole subject of sexual abuse is set aside right now. It's obviously upsetting to many and IMO it serves no purpose to debate the possibility. We will probably know one way or another soon enough.

Hugs to any who have experienced it. I haven't, but I respect the opinions of those who have. I just think it's time to drop it for the sake of peace on the thread and emotional peace during this awful time. JMO

:grouphug:

Also JMO...If the mods felt that we were violating WH's rights by discussing his possible connection to AJ's disappearance, they would have shut that down long ago. So any concerns about his rights might be better taken up with the mods than here on the thread. IMO

 

[FleurQualia]

Zach hoffer is no father. He should be in the dirt dead. A real father would have put his feelings aside so he could be there for his daughter. Lord take me instead.. .. I am no father

Oh Zach, I know this must be so hard on you but it is so important for you to not blame yourself. It is so obvious to all of us, through everythin you have written that you were a very caring father and you loved her purely. I wish these words could give you comfort, but I know they really can't. The only thing that can be done right now is to hold on. You still have your other daughters who also need you dearly. I have no doubt in my mind AJ will get justice.

 

[SimmaDownNow]

Zach hoffer is no father. He should be in the dirt dead. A real father would have put his feelings aside so he could be there for his daughter. Lord take me instead.. .. I am no father

Zach Please don't say that. When I saw you on the news there in franklin I said that is a father that is how someone who cares acts! Please don't say that, you have 2 sweet girls to look after.

 

[MsMarple]

I've been following but haven't posted since we received confirmation that it was AJ they found. For some reason, I bypassed "sad" and went straight to "furious" and I was afraid of ending up in timeout if I posted in that state of mind. I thought I was mentally prepared because I already suspected it was her that was discovered, but something snapped in me when it was confirmed. I was boiling over yesterday, but hopefully I can keep it down to a simmer today.

What I noticed about WH is that when he gets caught in a lie he can't fix, he does that contrite puppy dog routine and every other word is "yes sir - no sir" or "yes ma'am - no ma'am" depending on the gender of the person to whom he's speaking. He does this to manipulate, to diffuse the person who has him on the hot seat. I've seen this behavior before (uh oh, I feel those boiling bubbles again), and I've seen very smart, rational people be charmed by it. I think he's been doing this since he was young and I think it's been very effective for him. I think it works particularly well on women - mother, sister, girlfriends, wives - and he is accustomed to charming his way out of trouble with this false act of contrition. But when it doesn't work...when he is unable to charm his way out of rejection...when he can't isolate whomever he's trying to win over from those who would take a firm stand against him...well, I believe he does very desperate things at that point. I think it undoes him. And it is extremely significant to me that he began all the "yes-sir-no-sir-I'm-sorry-I-lied" bunk once he knew that his answers would be broadcast to the public. He did it to woo the people watching, just like he did it to woo anyone who might listen to his interview with shewhomustnotbenamed. I've seen people who exhibit this kind of behavior try to "win" the support and opinion of others in order to influence the person he's trying to win over. It makes it harder to reject him or stay mad at him when everyone else is saying "Aw, he seems really sorry. Don't you want to give him another chance?" They try to cajole others into pitying them, even asking them to plead his case to the offended party - whatever it takes to get what he wants.

I find it conceivable that things could have gone awry with AJ simply because she refused to bend when he tried to make her feel sorry for him or forgive him for whatever got him kicked out of the house. I have no doubt he was still in the throes of a manipulation campaign to weasel his way back into the house and and his marriage. If he wanted AJ to forgive him or help him in his efforts and she made it clear that she would work against him...he may have snapped. If he realized that AJ would not be swayed and that she was going to support her mother in keeping him away, his reaction could have been deadly. Heck, I can see her saying something as simple as "You're not my father any more, and I'm having my name legally changed from Hadsell to -------." That would have been enough for him to lose it, because he would have known she was serious. He saw how she turned her back on Zach. He would believe her if she said she was doing the same to him, and that would ruin his hopes of getting his home and family back on his own terms.

Thank you! You put into words what I've been unable to express properly. WH's "glue of the family" has been nipping at me for weeks but I couldn't tie all my thoughts together in a logical way. You've filled in important missing pieces in a most eloquent way.

 

[margarita25]

I went and looked up Virginia's crime report (lates available was 2013) to get some stats.
You can view the full report here: http://www.vsp.state.va.us/downloads/Crime_in_Virginia/Crime_in_Virginia_2013.pdf

Below is a summary:

Kidnapping/Abduction
In 2013, there were 1,315 actual and attempted kidnapings/abductions involving
1,499 victims. The month of May had the greatest number of ocurrences.

Victim Relationship to Perp:

Boyfriend/Girlfriend 27.50%
Relationship Unknown 23.50%
Victim Was Stranger 17.20%
Acquaintance 14.80%
Spouse 9.20%
Otherwise Known 7.80%

Where it occurred:

Residence/Home 76%
Highway/Road/Alley 12.80%
Hotel/Motel/Etc. 5.7%

Violent crime offenses
- include murder/nonnegligent manslaughter, aggravated assault, forcible sex offenses
and robbery. All violent crimes involve force or threat of force.
In 2013, contributing agencies reported 17,228 violent crime offenses involving 19,754 individual victims.

Victim Relationship to Perp:

Known to Victim 29.5%
Unknown 28.4%
Stranger 21.2%
Romantic Involvement 9%

Wow, this is really cool---thanks for posting. I've been wanting to do a report just like this of the cases I have personally followed, and thought about even starting a thread with a worksheet to calculate your own cases.

(For example (rough draft):

Case A: Victim / Age / Gender / Found (y/n) /If so, COD / MOD / Arrest (y/n) f Abduction Stranger Vs. NonStranger etc etc etc
Case B
Case C
Etc, etc...

Each case can be so opposite, for instance you might have a body in one but no arrest, or an arrest and no body, sometimes neither, sometimes both...)

 

[daisytrail]

I don't know about the documentation part. It seems people are able to take certain things as cause and use their insight to create an effect that I just can't see.

I think the US Constitution requires the presumption of innocence in court and, IMO, out of court if you are to be a good citizen. As such, the prosecution must prove an affirmative case, not make a defendant prove his innocence. Do I need to prove to anyone why I don't believe Eddie Murphy or my brother-in-law in Cincinnati didn't do it?

I don't understand the part about twisting & the press release.
JMO

I would like to know where in the constitution that it is required that in order to be a "good citizen" (generally in constitutions and bylaws that means good standing and voting privileges) does it say you have to presume people innocent out of court? I believe the constitution is available on line and if that is affirmative then it can be found there. It is true, however, that you cannot logically prove a negative. That is why there is a presumption of innocence and a requirement of jurors. However, websleuths terms of service say that I may speculate, therefore, I speculate. When websleuths says I cannot sleuth someone then, here at websleuths, I don't. Outside of websleuths, I do as I please with my own life. You had better believe that I am sleuthing anyone whom I think may have a connection with my own daughter's disappearance.

 

[rosie_lee]

Zach,
During this most difficult time Please surround yourself with those you love, trust & inspire you! You are a very strong individual & your daughters need you so much right now. This is probably one of the worst things you can ever go through in life but with your faith, family & friends behind you any obstacle placed before you will be overcome!!!!

 

[margarita25]

Zach hoffer is no father. He should be in the dirt dead. A real father would have put his feelings aside so he could be there for his daughter. Lord take me instead.. .. I am no father

Take me

:grouphug:

Zach

We are here.


I'm so sorry honey.

 

[margarita25]

I am balling my eyes out, my heart hurts so much for you. I can't even imagine...

Dear God, please help us. Please. Please give Zach comfort!

 

[Tillicum]

:grouphug: We all love you Zach :floating::floating::floating:

 

[Lilibet]

Zach, it's OK to say whatever you feel here. It's a safe place and we're here to support you. You're in a dark place right now, and what you are saying seems true to you at this moment. But, as I'm sure you would tell another parent saying the same thing, "Hang on. Pray. This will pass." You are a man of faith. Hang on. Isaiah 41:10, 13.