VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #3

[gxm]

I'm no expert on that case, but my understanding is that Ted Bundy gave little or no outward indication he was interested in killing people. In contrast McCroskey is very into horrorcore and horror movies and he writes songs about killing.

They both might be mentally ill, but the characteristics of the illness are very different.

I haven't done much reading on Bundy, but there is the often cited recollection of him arranging knives around his sleeping aunt when he was a child. IMO, when he grew up he was smart enough to conceal his violent tendencies.

Sam appears to be the opposite. There have yet to be recollections of him as a violent or sadistic child, but as he grew up he began to "wear" violence almost as a fashion accessory, immersing himself into violent video games, violent music and violent graphics. So, yes, it's basically the opposite of Bundy (as far as we know).

Bundy sources:

He showed violent tendencies as young as three years old.

His Aunt Julia, Louise's younger sister, recalls incidents of laying down for a nap in her home and waking up to find knives surrounding her and a smiling three year old Bundy at her side. This paints an eerie, strange picture of a toddler arranging knives around his sleeping aunt.


http://www.bukisa.com/articles/16246_10-weird-facts-about-ted-bundys-childhood

and

Ted Bundy started his criminal activities at a very young age, before he was out of high school, with voyeurism and window-peeping. While some people would later claim Ted Bundy was a "happy, normal child" others noticed his disturbed mentality when he was still in high school. The same can be said for another sadistic sex killer, Jeffrey Dahmer.

http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Ted_Bundy_-_Biography/id/2079893

 

[gxm]

Well, imagine yourself in that position hypothetically. You've been set up to be in a house with four brutal murders likely by people that you thought were your friends. What would you do?

However I imagine the forensic evidence will kill that whole story and line of reasoning.

I seriously think the demonic possession angle is more convincing.

Really.

It's always hard to know what you'd do in an extreme situation but I believe that my first instinct would be to run, not stick around.

ETA: I'm a flighter, not a fighter.

 

[tapu]

demonic possession = rage

 

[gxm]

demonic possession = rage

Exactly. It's fascinating that humans need the security blanket of Satan to explain away the horror they are capable of.

 

[ziggy]

Dunno, if it were LSD it'd probably list blotter paper, a vial of liquid, or a gel tab.. not a pill.

Agree. Seems like most kids these days get prescription meds and love them.

 

[dangrsmind]

Agree. Seems like most kids these days get prescription meds and love them.

I don't disagree, but if it is an illegally manufactured pill you can't know what it is without testing it. The person who bought it might not really know what is in it.

Without actual photographs of the pills or chemical testing in a forensic report we can only speculate.

 

[dangrsmind]

It's always hard to know what you'd do in an extreme situation but I believe that my first instinct would be to run, not stick around.

ETA: I'm a flighter, not a fighter.

Well I agree mostly. I'm just saying if this thesis was correct, it would be difficult for the person who was set up to determine the correct course of action at that time. Taking some time to think it out would make sense.

However, I've been questioning the idea that he was trying to escape the scene at all the whole time. If he was set up it does seem he would have at least left the scene of the crime. But this is speculation.

Personally I have a very hard time interpreting other facts in the case if I consider the "he was set up theory". If he was set up, then what was he buying at Kroger's?

 

[ziggy]

I'm not going to read anything into Sam's attorney's comments. I think they are defense attorneys with nothing else to say right now so all they want to do is try their best to submit to the possible jury pool that there is more to the story and their client than what is being reported in a sensational case(although I believe the sensationalism has been muted by LE and I give them credit for that).

Jose Baez is still saying there is a good reason for his client Casey Anthony to be out partying while her daughter has allegedly been kidnapped but he offers that it will "come out at trial" which it won't.

Defense attorneys can misrepresent things to the public, just not to the court so they are just doing their schtick right now.

OTOH, it will be interesting to see if a defense angle will include that he was set up or otherwise encouraged to do these things and I have no idea how that could mitigate the offenses in the minds of the jury once they see the crime scene photos of the damage he did to those people.

I wonder how much investigation will go into others who may have encouraged or propostioned him to murder because of the cost involved. If it could help his defense, might it be just too expensive to go there based on his indigent status? Would the DA really care if they think they have enough to get a conviction now and just hang Sam with everything? Kind of questions about the real world versus the ideal world in our system.

Maybe some of you legal peeps can help me out on this. My criminal law prof likes talking about herself more than anything else so I don't get many answers there

 

[Wes]

demonic possession = rage

One can have a fit of rage without being demonically possessed. And I'd venture to say that one could be demonic possessed without going into a fit of rage.

I do think demonic possession is real. Whether or not Sam was/is is debateable, but I would say it's likely. He definitely delved deep enough into it and opened himself up to that possibility.

As for the law, it's irrelevant imo. He should, and will, be proven to have committed the act and should pay the ultimate price as a result.

 

[dangrsmind]

Exactly. It's fascinating that humans need the security blanket of Satan to explain away the horror they are capable of.

I think a Jungian would say that it is not that people need a security blanket, it is that this internal unconscious pattern (archetype) is being expressed over and over again. It is no coincidence that cultures all over the world have created their own different yet somehow similar versions of "Satan" and expressed this both in art and religion.

Patterns arising from the unconscious mind seem to come from "outside" from the perspective of the conscious waking mind.

Consider the typical experience of dreaming as an example. You experience people, places, and things but all of this arises entirely from signals inside your brain. However, unless you undertake specific practices (lucid dreaming, dream yoga), you experience these things as being "outside" of your physical body. Clearly they are not.

Also check out some of the recent research with "out of body" experiences: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20411858/

 

[dangrsmind]

One can have a fit of rage without being demonically possessed. And I'd venture to say that one could be demonic possessed without going into a fit of rage.

I do think demonic possession is real. Whether or not Sam was/is is debateable, but I would say it's likely. He definitely delved deep enough into it and opened himself up to that possibility.

As for the law, it's irrelevant imo. He should, and will, be proven to have committed the act and should pay the ultimate price as a result.

I don't believe in demons. However, I also don't not believe in them.

 

[gxm]

I think a Jungian would say that it is not that people need a security blanket, it is that this internal unconscious pattern (archetype) is being expressed over and over again. It is no coincidence that cultures all over the world have created their own different yet somehow similar versions of "Satan" and expressed this both in art and religion.

Patterns arising from the unconscious mind seem to come from "outside" from the perspective of the conscious waking mind.

Consider the typical experience of dreaming as an example. You experience people, places, and things but all of this arises entirely from signals inside your brain. However, unless you undertake specific practices (lucid dreaming, dream yoga), you experience these things as being "outside" of your physical body. Clearly they are not.

Also check out some of the recent research with "out of body" experiences: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20411858/

Ah, well, then I disagree with Jung. I believe we create the idea of demons as a receptacle for our unacceptable ideas. It is the act of putting the bad things away, in the demon cubby, that allows us to act on our worst impulses while simultaneously denying our culpability.

FWIW, I wouldn't say I feel "outside" my dreams. If anything I feel very much "inside" them. As for out of body experiences, I've always wanted to have one. But the closest I ever came was when I was in an extreme state of thyroid-induced lethargy. It wasn't so much out of body as the feeling of the absence of physical/bodily boundaries. So I don't think it was the same thing as the article discusses. But it was a very pleasant experience nonetheless.

 

[dangrsmind]

Ah, well, then I disagree with Jung. I believe we create the idea of demons as a receptacle for our unacceptable ideas. It is the act of putting the bad things away, in the demon cubby, that allows us to act on our worst impulses while simultaneously denying our culpability.

FWIW, I wouldn't say I feel "outside" my dreams. If anything I feel very much "inside" them. As for out of body experiences, I've always wanted to have one. But the closest I ever came was when I was in an extreme state of thyroid-induced lethargy. It wasn't so much out of body as the feeling of the absence of physical/bodily boundaries. So I don't think it was the same thing as the article discusses. But it was a very pleasant experience nonetheless.

When you dream you experience the people you meet or things you interact with as parts of yourself during the dream? That is very unusual actually if true, but I suspect we just aren't talking about the same thing.

If I were to stick a needle in your finger you would feel that part of yourself had been injured and you would pull away your hand. When objects in a dream are destroyed or a dream person is injured you feel nothing. These objects appear to be outside of yourself.

However, in some dreams the observer/ego experiences frightening situations or feels that it is in danger from a dream object. You'll often wake up after such an experience. The experience is that the threatening force, monster, what have you, is external to the dream observer.

As far as the out of body experiments, I did all of this same stuff in an uncontrolled setting back in the early nineties when I was developing virtual reality software. And I know people that did all sorts of other experiments for example putting cameras on RC controlled cars, in varied orientations, or using exotic (i.e. fisheye) optics and more.

We also did some experiments where we could make the subject act as if a virtual object was part of their body. This idea is used in most violent video games and is one of the reasons Sam's video game habit might have more to do with this crime than horrorcore. FWIW.

 

[gxm]

When you dream you experience the people you meet or things you interact with as parts of yourself during the dream? That is very unusual actually if true, but I suspect we just aren't talking about the same thing.

If I were to stick a needle in your finger you would feel that part of yourself had been injured and you would pull away your hand. When objects in a dream are destroyed or a dream person is injured you feel nothing. These objects appear to be outside of yourself.

However, in some dreams the observer/ego experiences frightening situations or feels that it is in danger from a dream object. You'll often wake up after such an experience. The experience is that the threatening force, monster, what have you, is external to the dream observer.

As far as the out of body experiments, I did all of this same stuff in an uncontrolled setting back in the early nineties when I was developing virtual reality software. And I know people that did all sorts of other experiments for example putting cameras on RC controlled cars, in varied orientations, or using exotic (i.e. fisheye) optics and more.

We also did some experiments where we could make the subject act as if a virtual object was part of their body. This idea is used in most violent video games and is one of the reasons Sam's video game habit might have more to do with this crime than horrorcore. FWIW.

I usually experience dreams as a contained story, and most often there is no "me," if that makes any sense. But I understand the point you're making about waking "dreams," which I hate, really they should be called waking "nightmares."

The research you've done sounds fascinating. If you have any links, please share them.

ETA: Okay, I looked up lucid dreaming and I guess I'm a fairly lucid dreamer. Which is probably why I hate waking dreams so much.

 

[Kano]

We also did some experiments where we could make the subject act as if a virtual object was part of their body. This idea is used in most violent video games and is one of the reasons Sam's video game habit might have more to do with this crime than horrorcore. FWIW.

Are you seriously going to try to take up for the horrorcore thing and then pass blame onto video games? Sorry, but thats a joke.

 

[Kano]

Also, i find it odd you have so much to say.. But only about this 1 crime? You take up for horrorcore at every step and try to pass a blame onto another form of entertainment?
Seems like you have some hmm, strange motives for all this energy..

 

[dangrsmind]

I usually experience dreams as a contained story, and most often there is no "me," if that makes any sense. But I understand the point you're making about waking "dreams," which I hate, really they should be called waking "nightmares."

The research you've done sounds fascinating. If you have any links, please share them.

ETA: Okay, I looked up lucid dreaming and I guess I'm a fairly lucid dreamer. Which is probably why I hate waking dreams so much.

Unfortunately this was all before everything was electronic and archived on the Internet. A lot of this stuff is only available in paper format therefore.

My company was originally called Avatar Partners and used a sun/star logo much like my avatar here. Later the company name was changed to DIVE Labs for legal reasons.

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-16522673.html

The fully operational system was never built. But we did build an advanced software tool set for building virtual environments, a wireless virtual reality system including body tracking, virtual weapons/props, and a 3000 watt spatial audio system based on ambisonics.

See also:

http://books.google.com/books?id=3h...e&q="avatar partners" virtual reality&f=false

http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=951168&dl=GUIDE&coll=GUIDE&CFID=60117774&CFTOKEN=95429262

http://www.csun.edu/cod/conf/1993/proceedings/Vrgame~1.htm
etc.

 

[dangrsmind]

Also, i find it odd you have so much to say.. But only about this 1 crime? You take up for horrorcore at every step and try to pass a blame onto another form of entertainment?
Seems like you have some hmm, strange motives for all this energy..

What do you imagine my motives are?

Because I'm really curious to hear your theory.

And BTW I am not at all fan of horrorcore at all. However, since I began investigating this case I have heard some music I did like and also some that made me laugh out loud. YMMV.

All you post here are personal attacks on me. Not very interesting reading. Just my .02 though.

 

[dangrsmind]

I usually experience dreams as a contained story, and most often there is no "me," if that makes any sense. But I understand the point you're making about waking "dreams," which I hate, really they should be called waking "nightmares."

The research you've done sounds fascinating. If you have any links, please share them.

ETA: Okay, I looked up lucid dreaming and I guess I'm a fairly lucid dreamer. Which is probably why I hate waking dreams so much.

P.S. A friend of mine wrote a book with the main expert in the field.

Amazon.com: Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming (9780345420121): Stephen Laberge, Howard Rheingold: Books

Back in the day there were some people that wanted to do shared lucid dreaming experiments using virtual reality projections as dream "seeds". But I don't know if they ever carried out these experiments.

 

[Kano]

What do you imagine my motives are?

Because I'm really curious to hear your theory.

And BTW I am not at all fan of horrorcore at all. However, since I began investigating this case I have heard some music I did like and also some that made me laugh out loud. YMMV.

All you post here are personal attacks on me. Not very interesting reading. Just my .02 though.

Look through the 20 pages of posts you made on this subject (the link in your profile).. You have completely attempted to dominate the subject at hand for whatever reason, why i have no clue.. Seems very odd though all the same, and attacking you? No, i just disagree with most you say and i tend to have trouble with the bully type poster who attempts to push his point on everyone else..

Avatar Partners still a valid company, around by the same name is it not?