VA - Couple & two teens found murdered, Farmville, 15 Sept 2009 #6

[claudicici]

That is funny.

Some great metal wisdom from the comments:

“The closer you get to the meaning the more that you know you are dreaming” RJ Dio

Some Satanic trivia: Ronnie James Dio isn't the innovator, but supposedly the popularized the "devil's horn" gesture among metal heads. I wonder if that qualifies him as a saint or prophet.

oh yes the old argument,Gene Simmons claims he was the one ,when really it was John Lennon,the heavy metal pioneer

http://earcandy_mag.tripod.com/lennon-hm-pic.jpg

 

[blouAngel]

BTW, that black metal symposium led me to learn of another use of hoods without eye holes by the black metal band Gorgoroth during an infamous and illegal performance in Poland that featured seven severed sheep heads and three faux crucifixions.

WARNING: DISTURBING IMAGES NSFW

See http://tepper.neostrada.pl/gorgoroth_03.jpg, http://tepper.neostrada.pl/gorgoroth_17.jpg, http://tepper.neostrada.pl/gorgoroth_10.jpg, and http://terror.org.pl/~teppah/gorgoroth/swt.jpg

WARNING: DISTURBING IMAGES NSFW

Don't click if you don't want to see them.

And yet people defend this same garb as part of the tradition of the Chi walk at Longwood.

I wonder, do you talk your girlfriend into being crucified naked for your upcoming gig or do you have to hire someone for that?

I think it's really a bit of a stretch to describe that as the same garb as worn in the Chi walk. "Sometimes a hat is just a hat" sayeth the wise dangrsmind once upon a time, though I'll admit that he also counseled that sometimes it's not. Here, I see a hat and nothing more.

 

[claudicici]

I see more !

this is your quote from the "black metal symposium" thing:“The black metal event is a confession without need of absolution, without need of redemption,” he said. It is, he added, “a cleaning up of the mess of others.” He invoked the old English tradition of sin eating by means of burial cakes, in which a loaf of bread was put on a funeral bier or a corpse, and a paid member of the community would eat the bread, representing sin, to absolve and comfort the deceased.

doesn't it make sense in that context?...the image isn't sexist,the world already is,they're just showing what is real,to me that is comforting...

 

[blouAngel]

wow,those are amazing...i see the chi and the first one really shows what the easter egg is all about....where in turkey did you live? my dad lived there and i always wore the "evil eye " pendant he gave me from there ,he lived in ankara...

The "eggs" on Artemis have been explained as breasts or bull testicles.

A lot of early Greek temples had wooden figures in them and the basic forms were unchanged for a very long time. Sometimes additional things that might have been ritually added to the earlier form were retained when a new medium was used. Similar things often happened in architecture too and are used to explain some of the details on classical buildings. In the case of the Artemis figure one theory is that bull testicles were hung on the wooden figures and when later copies were made in stone, they were carved from the stone as well.

Another explanation has to do with oval shaped amber pieces that were found in an excavation below the Roman era temple. The earliest temple there was buried under sediment following a flood with later temple being built on top of that. Those amber pieces formed a garland that likely covered an earlier wooden goddess figure. I'm not sure if there is an explanation of why, or how it might relate to the testicle theory.

That Artemis is a later Roman version. A lot of what is often thought of as Greek art is actually Roman copies in marble of Greek bronzes or earlier Greek stone sculpture.

I lived in Adana when I was in Turkey, but my parents travelled with us all over the country. I was a military brat and lived in the city of Adana but went to school on Incerlik AFB. Amazing art is plentiful in Turkey and it was a great place to be as my interest in art was developing.

A hand of Fatima with a turquoise eye stone in the middle of the palm is common there as are ceramic beads with a blue line around them. I think those are Central Asian in origin and later spread through the expansion of the Ottoman Empire.

 

[claudicici]

oh come on ,the eggs on Artemis scream fertility not bull testicles.i was wrong again.
isn't adana where the white chalk cliffs are? I'm sure my dad told me about adana,I think he went diving there..I love the hand of Fatima with the eye stone...I love turkey and its culture and everything my dad tells me about it,but then i hate how the turkish girls struggle,there are so many turkish people in germany and they are between two worlds,while it seems to turn the guys rather "gangster" the girls are really lost.
On a crucifix with a hood on.

 

[blouAngel]

I can totally relate to the image of the naked girl being crucified.I don't think it's garbage

Claudicci, it must be your Viennese spirit. Do you know about Hermann Nitsch and the rest of the Viennese Aktionists.

http://www.ubu.com/film/vienna_actionists.html
the page warns "Please note: These films are inappropriate for minors and are not safe for work."

Search for Hermann Nitsch on youtube. I'm not going to put a link in here because it's really too much for most people. It's probably some of the most disturbing and provocative art you will ever encounter, so some readers will just want to skip all of that that.

The British got into a similar game a bit later with the 1976 “Prostitution” exhibition at the ICA in London. Searching for biographical info for Genesis P-Orridge will find that for you. If you've ever been a Psychic TV, Throbbing Gristle, Coil, or Nurse With Wound fan, you may know about that already.

 

[blouAngel]

oh come on ,the eggs on Artemis scream fertility not bull testicles.i was wrong again.
isn't adana where the white chalk cliffs are? I'm sure my dad told me about adana,I think he went diving there..I love the hand of Fatima with the eye stone...I love turkey and its culture and everything my dad tells me about it,but then i hate how the turkish girls struggle,there are so many turkish people in germany and they are between two worlds,while it seems to turn the guys rather "gangster" the girls are really lost.
On a crucifix with a hood on.

The figures on Artemis's body look like winged bulls, which are an Assyrian thing. There is nothing like that on the earlier greek depiction of Artemis. It seems possible that there is a merging of east and west there in terms of the symbols, in which case bull testicles seem possible. Scholars argue about that stuff for decades only to have consensus shift with new discoveries, so no telling what's true. I see eggs, breasts and testicles, and I've always also seen a bunch of grapes which ought to make for some weird dreams now that they are all loaded into my mind.

Most western women don't seem to long for the lives their sisters in the muslim world live.

 

[wadahoot]

http://www.ubu.com/film/vienna_actionists.html
the page warns "Please note: These films are inappropriate for minors and are not safe for work."

OK, I'm old ... I don't get it. :crazy:

 

[blouAngel]

OK, I'm old ... I don't get it. :crazy:

Regardless of age, most people don't get any art. They just have an easier time convincing themselves they do when the art has people, or dogs, or angels, or pretty country scenes in it. They see something they recognize, are satisfied that's it, and stop looking. That's why Andrew Wyeth and Norman Rockwell could make a living but most people have never heard of someone say like Mark Tobey.

 

[dangrsmind]

I can totally relate to the image of the naked girl being crucified.I don't think it's garbage

"Garb" meaning clothing, not garbage. I was talking about the hoods. My point was simply that some of the same people that defend the use of these hoods in the Chi walks are likely very appalled by this use. And yet the hoods are used for the same symbolic purposes here just more openly.

 

[dangrsmind]

Claudicci, it must be your Viennese spirit. Do you know about Hermann Nitsch and the rest of the Viennese Aktionists.

http://www.ubu.com/film/vienna_actionists.html
the page warns "Please note: These films are inappropriate for minors and are not safe for work."

Search for Hermann Nitsch on youtube. I'm not going to put a link in here because it's really too much for most people. It's probably some of the most disturbing and provocative art you will ever encounter, so some readers will just want to skip all of that that.

The British got into a similar game a bit later with the 1976 “Prostitution” exhibition at the ICA in London. Searching for biographical info for Genesis P-Orridge will find that for you. If you've ever been a Psychic TV, Throbbing Gristle, Coil, or Nurse With Wound fan, you may know about that already.

Two of my roommates in my senior year of college decided they hated each other and one element of the conflict was that one of them played Throbbing Gristle's song "Beat Her With A Rake" over and over. The other fellow found these lyrics disturbing and misogynist, and he preferred Jazz and Reggae. A lengthy debate ensued and it was decided to TURN UP THE VOLUME. There were four massive stereos in the house controlled by four different roommates, and those that couldn't TURN UP THE VOLUME had to suffer in silence.

Love Coil though.

 

[claudicici]

lol,i thought you meant garbage

 

[dangrsmind]

I'm ordering some of this:

 

[dangrsmind]

I wonder, do you talk your girlfriend into being crucified naked for your upcoming gig or do you have to hire someone for that?

I think it's really a bit of a stretch to describe that as the same garb as worn in the Chi walk. "Sometimes a hat is just a hat" sayeth the wise dangrsmind once upon a time, though I'll admit that he also counseled that sometimes it's not. Here, I see a hat and nothing more.

lol...

Well, it is a faux crucifixion which was a method of torture and execution in its day. The "victims" here are wearing hoods that cover their faces and eyes like the Chi hoods. The rest of the outfit is a bit different I admit.

However I still haven't seen an example of the use of a hood with no eye holes for a positive purpose, it always represents helplessness, death and/or torture.

I humbly submit that this was the exact meaning intended by the originators of the Chi walk tradition as well.

 

[dangrsmind]

Regardless of age, most people don't get any art. They just have an easier time convincing themselves they do when the art has people, or dogs, or angels, or pretty country scenes in it. They see something they recognize, are satisfied that's it, and stop looking. That's why Andrew Wyeth and Norman Rockwell could make a living but most people have never heard of someone say like Mark Tobey.

Wyeth and Rockwell are great compared to Thomas Kinkade who obviously is pure evil.

http://littleredboat.co.uk/?p=2306
http://www.gothhouse.org/gh_parlour/posts/ghp000049.php
etc.

 

[dangrsmind]

OK, I'm old ... I don't get it. :crazy:

And to think that not very long ago I was put on time out in part for posting a picture of Duchamp's Fountain and arguing it was relevant to the discussion about the artistic merits of horrorcore.

 

[blouAngel]

Wyeth and Rockwell are great compared to Thomas Kinkade who obviously is pure evil.

http://littleredboat.co.uk/?p=2306
http://www.gothhouse.org/gh_parlour/posts/ghp000049.php
etc.

Rockwell was great. I'm a huge fan of Grant Wood, T H Benton, Rockwell Kent, and other middle American painters of that era. The more I've seen of Norman Rockwell's work, the more depth I see below the surface. The exact opposite is true of Wyeth. There's really very little there. His dad made wonderful art though, which made a name for him and got him connected to the right people. Nice work if you can get it.

One of the Virginians who sued Kinkade had a gallery here in C'ville. I used to laugh out loud when I walked by it. He does have a certain perverse something, kind of like Doritto's, but not as deliciously wrong as fried Snickers bars.

I actually like Kincade a lot more after reading about him urinating on the Winnie The Pooh sculpture. Maybe he has an interesting second act coming up.

 

[blouAngel]

And to think that not very long ago I was put on time out in part for posting a picture of Duchamp's Fountain and arguing it was relevant to the discussion about the artistic merits of horrorcore.

I must have missed that. Paternalism gone bad. I might argue against a comparison that suggests that the purpose of the two is in any way similar, but it is certainly worthy of adult discussion. Funny that a photo of a urinal is BAD, but I bet a fully nekkid classical figure in marble wouldn't meet with any real disapproval. Duchamp's point was complicated, but ridiculous ideas about what is appropriately called art were what he was trying to address.

 

[dangrsmind]

Rockwell was great. I'm a huge fan of Grant Wood, T H Benton, Rockwell Kent, and other middle American painters of that era. The more I've seen of Norman Rockwell's work, the more depth I see below the surface. The exact opposite is true of Wyeth. There's really very little there. His dad made wonderful art though, which made a name for him and got him connected to the right people. Nice work if you can get it.

One of the Virginians who sued Kinkade had a gallery here in C'ville. I used to laugh out loud when I walked by it. He does have a certain perverse something, kind of like Doritto's, but not as deliciously wrong as fried Snickers bars.

I actually like Kincade a lot more after reading about him urinating on the Winnie The Pooh sculpture. Maybe he has an interesting second act coming up.

Hmm, well maybe he'll come out with something a bit more outrageous like a painting of that event. Then he'll do a two artist show with John John Jesse.

But probably not.

 

[dangrsmind]

I must have missed that. Paternalism gone bad. I might argue against a comparison that suggests that the purpose of the two is in any way similar, but it is certainly worthy of adult discussion. Funny that a photo of a urinal is BAD, but I bet a fully nekkid classical figure in marble wouldn't meet with any real disapproval. Duchamp's point was complicated, but ridiculous ideas about what is appropriately called art were what he was trying to address.

Well at least in part Duchamp was making a statement about who gets to decide what "art" is and why they favor certain forms such as painting and sculpture over others.

Calling a found urinal art is somewhat less extreme than making a video of someone vomiting and masturbating (your link) but perhaps the point was somewhat similar.

I think there is an element of this thinking in horrorcore and death metal too.

See also: http://www.newser.com/story/22945/sf-museum-cancels-animal-snuff-art-show.html