VA VA - David Metzler, 19, & Heidi Childs, 18, fatally shot, Montgomery Co, 26 Aug 2009

[sallye818]

From the article below, the DNA evidence is hair?? Maybe the other info had not been released when this was written. The article does confirm that Tech students used the area for "lover's lane" parking...also that Heidi's dad is a VSP sergeant...somehow I missed that.

http://theaquilareport.com/the-cald...t-chapter-and-churches-in-southwest-virginia/

 

[TedMac]

You make some valid points. As we know they have not release all the information. If she was assaulted seems they would release that. Many cases release that information but not this one. And the taking of the purse if it was actually taken throws another motive into the theories. Was the motive robbery, a sexual assault combination of both or something else.

One question I have been looking for the answer I still have not found.
They say they went there to play there guitars?...........But yet I have not found if the guitars were still there or if they were missing? Or did they even take them to the site which i assumed they did since it was reported that is why they were going there............Some assume they were killed upon arriving, but they may had made it out of the car at some point. Perhaps they did exited the vehicle and for whatever reason they returned to the vehicle and was shot at that point.................We just don't know.

And what about his wallet? We assume he was driving so he must had have his license on him. Have not heard if it was missing or not.
If robbery was a motive seems the purse, guitars and his wallet would have been taken.

The killer didn't know about the purse to take until after the facts. It could have been a souvenir, or to through off the LEOS making it appear that robbery was the motive. I don't think she was sexual assaulted, so the DNA came from another source but just guessing.

Would like to see the crime scene photos. But we know that is not going to happen.

BBM There is so much we do not know about this case. I don't think LE has ever mentioned the guitars, so we don't know if they were stolen or not. Ditto with David's wallet. They said the only think taken was Heidi's purse and maybe her keys?

The LE press release indicated that David was found in the passenger's seat of his car and Heidi was found outside of the car. Maybe David was shot before ever exiting the car and maybe he had exited the car and ordered at gunpoint to get back inside. Again, there is much we do not know.

 

[TedMac]

From the article below, the DNA evidence is hair?? Maybe the other info had not been released when this was written. The article does confirm that Tech students used the area for "lover's lane" parking...also that Heidi's dad is a VSP sergeant...somehow I missed that.

http://theaquilareport.com/the-cald...t-chapter-and-churches-in-southwest-virginia/

BBM But, we do not know what part of the killer's body the hair came from. It could have come from the top of his head, face (beard), arms, legs or privates.

Sexual assault may or may not have been a part of the murder. I can't help but believe this was a random or thrill-kill with either rape and/or robbery as an afterthought. For the killer or perhaps killers to have a hunting rifle with them, it makes me think they had the area staked out. But, why a hunting rifle? Not many killers use long guns for murder. Pistols are normally their weapon of choice.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

BBM But, we do not know what part of the killer's body the hair came from. It could have come from the top of his head, face (beard), arms, legs or privates.

Sexual assault may or may not have been a part of the murder. I can't help but believe this was a random or thrill-kill with either rape and/or robbery as an afterthought. For the killer or perhaps killers to have a hunting rifle with them, it makes me think they had the area staked out. But, why a hunting rifle? Not many killers use long guns for murder. Pistols are normally their weapon of choice.

That is why I ask someone in another posting about animals. If I was a tour guide taking persons out for horseback riding in the park, and came upon a aggressive animal for whatever reason. I assume the tour guide would be armed with something to stop the attack and prevent the horses or customers from being hurt. A rifle would be idea for such encounter. And I wonder if at the time they supplied 30 odd 6 as a standard weapon. IF they supplied weapons at all?

I was thinking wayyyyyyyyy outside the box so this may be totally off course.

But I do wonder if they carried a weapon while out on the trails for the tours.

 

[TedMac]

[/COLOR]

That is why I ask someone in another posting about animals. If I was a tour guide taking persons out for horseback riding in the park, and came upon a aggressive animal for whatever reason. I assume the tour guide would be armed with something to stop the attack and prevent the horses or customers from being hurt. A rifle would be idea for such encounter. And I wonder if at the time they supplied 30 odd 6 as a standard weapon. IF they supplied weapons at all?

I was thinking wayyyyyyyyy outside the box so this may be totally off course.

But I do wonder if they carried a weapon while out on the trails for the tours.

Perhaps. but I'm not sure if there are any tour guides or tours in that area. But even if there are, I doubt they would be out after dark.

Also, another poster said that horses aren't permitted on the trail.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

Perhaps. but I'm not sure if there are any tour guides or tours in that area. But even if there are, I doubt they would be out after dark.

Also, another poster said that horses aren't permitted on the trail.

I am not making myself clear. That is my fault.
I am wondering about someone that worked in the area, maybe at the stables, shooting ranges etc. Someone whom knew the trails paths etc, that could travel them at night. Knows the short cuts and so forth. And had access to weapons such as a 30 odd 6.

Around the crime scene there are paths the lead up and onto the appy and also to the branches, whatever the branches are.

If i was the killer i wouldnot want to leave the area with a car. thats risky.........But watching from the top of the range and seeing them arrive, the killer could have walked down one of those paths that they knew was there........And left the area the same way they arrived. Less likely of being seen leaving the area by foot than by car.

 

[:+:MrTT:+:]

There are 17 photos at this link:



http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...tzler-murders-20120329,0,1464830.photogallery

What were the photos of?

 

[JohnTate90210]

The DNA is curious...

I guess there's the possibility they recovered shells from the rifle and that might have been the source of the DNA.

There's a webpage by a guy that does metal detecting as a hobby. He went to the murder site a long time afterwards and found 2 or 3 shells of the right caliber. I can't find his page right now but I recall he contacted police about them. They might have been totally unrelated but it's interesting they were the right size.

 

[JohnTate90210]

I dont know about the wildlife around there. But when your out hiking the trails especially the first few times, were you made aware of any wildlife that you should be aware of? Did you recieve any warnings about a possible encounter with wildlife and what should you do incase you came face to face with such a warning? Were you given any precautions about encountering any aggressive animals while you were hiking.

There are rarely any warnings posted about wildlife. I've seen bear signs on a very popular section near Roanoke but nothing elsewhere. I have run into bears before but not toooo close. I've encountered snakes, too. Otherwise, it's mostly just squirrels, deer and such. I've read a decent number of hiking books so know a bit.

 

[neverletgo]

What were the photos of?

I posted that link almost a year ago and now I can't remember . . . I'm sorry! It's a shame they've taken it down.

 

[LucyOso]

The DNA is curious...it makes sense in a sexual assault or revenge/personal killing but does not fit as well with any kind of a theory where they "saw something they should not have" or we just randomly shot in a "thrill kill" as there would be no need to touch anything, or anyone, in those types of crimes. To me, it seems most likely if there was an assault, most likely on Heidi. But I guess I need to review to see what if anything was stolen, as they could have left DNA on or inside the car if a robbery, though it would be more difficult to determine what came from the crime, vs incidental contact by others who were in car prior. Jmo

Ok I see her purse was stolen...still not sure how that could be a DNA source if the entire thing was taken. Just thinking aloud.

I keep going back to my life in rural areas...Time and time again, you see young folks taking "pot shots" at cars from a distance. I wonder if it started as something like that, then they realized there were people in the car, had shot someone, and there was a living witness. Do we know how far away each were shot from? Purse stolen to cover up, make it look like a robbery...

 

[AnnaGrace]

I think this was a random killing, in that it wasn't specifically for Heidi and David. I believe the murderer was there waiting and whoever had come to the scene would have been murdered. It's my thought that it most likely was a sexual assault. I think the murderer approached the vehicle from the driver's side and they tried to run from the passenger side when they saw him. After David was shot, I think the killer chased Heidi and attacked her, assaulted her and then killed her. She may have even stopped when she heard him shoot David out of fear for David. Putting myself in that position, I think I would have stopped at a gunshot out of fear that my friend had probably been shot. I don't think you would be thinking clearly at a moment like that. I don't believe the killing happened because of a robbery. I like LucyOso think that was an after thought. This is all JMO and have no info to back it up. I do think a lot of info has been withheld from the public, but I'm not sure why. I also believe the killer was local to the area at the time. Like MrT said above, he may have lived or camped there. When this happened he may have moved on. I had never heard before that a sweat shirt was found at the scene. Wonder if it belonged to Heidi or David, or the killer? I had heard about the hairs and also DNA in the form of fingerprints.

 

[TedMac]

I think this was a random killing, in that it wasn't specifically for Heidi and David. I believe the murderer was there waiting and whoever had come to the scene would have been murdered. It's my thought that it most likely was a sexual assault. I think the murderer approached the vehicle from the driver's side and they tried to run from the passenger side when they saw him. After David was shot, I think the killer chased Heidi and attacked her, assaulted her and then killed her. She may have even stopped when she heard him shoot David out of fear for David. Putting myself in that position, I think I would have stopped at a gunshot out of fear that my friend had probably been shot. I don't think you would be thinking clearly at a moment like that. I don't believe the killing happened because of a robbery. I like LucyOso think that was an after thought. This is all JMO and have no info to back it up. I do think a lot of info has been withheld from the public, but I'm not sure why. I also believe the killer was local to the area at the time. Like MrT said above, he may have lived or camped there. When this happened he may have moved on. I had never heard before that a sweat shirt was found at the scene. Wonder if it belonged to Heidi or David, or the killer? I had heard about the hairs and also DNA in the form of fingerprints.

I agree with your theory of a thrill kill and the sexual assault (assuming it happened) was something that was not part of the original plan. The only part I am having a problem with is did the killer(s) actually shoot David first with a high-powered rifle and then take the time to assault Heidi? A high-caliber hunting rifle makes a lot of noise. The killer or killers would have been very brazen to fire off a round to kill David and then stay around the area for ever how long the assault would have taken. You would think they would have hurriedly left after discharging the rifle. I have wondered if possibly David wasn't killed until after Heidi was attacked? Could he have been forced at gunpoint to watch whatever happened to Heidi prior to himself being killed?

Has it ever been stated by LE how far Heidi's body was found from the car? I know they said that David's body was found inside the car and Heidi was found outside of the car. I've also wondered if perhaps she was marched at gunpoint a significant distance from the car before being murdered?

MOO

 

[AnnaGrace]

Over time I've read that her body was found in front of the car, but not how far away. Other accounts have said a short distance from the car. I would need to research to see if I can find any references. I've thought that David's murder could have happened after an assault on Heidi for the very reason you mentioned. In order for David to be held at gunpoint, he would have to be tied or there would be an accomplice, which has never been mentioned in reports? Taking her farther into the woods would make more sense for the attacker.

 

[AnnaGrace]

The article posted above by sallye818, at post #90, says this about where the bodies were found:

'Both suffered gunshot wounds, and were found by a passerby. David’s body was in his car, a 1992 Toyota; Heidi’s some ways distance away.'

This article from 2012 gives some interesting information in an interview with Heidi's father:

http://www.wsls.com/story/20856445/heidi-childs-dad-says-dna-evidence-is-huge

 

[LucyOso]

On the previous page, I posted a map showing the Appalachian Trail and a small road that goes from the crime scene to near the top of the mountain.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...County-27-August-2009&p=11170355#post11170355

Does anybody know if that road is gated off? I've hiked a lot of the Appy Trail and occasionally run into such roads with gates.

http://adventurepossible.com/adventure/murder-on-the-appalachian-trail/

 

[LucyOso]

I agree with your theory of a thrill kill and the sexual assault (assuming it happened) was something that was not part of the original plan. The only part I am having a problem with is did the killer(s) actually shoot David first with a high-powered rifle and then take the time to assault Heidi? A high-caliber hunting rifle makes a lot of noise. The killer or killers would have been very brazen to fire off a round to kill David and then stay around the area for ever how long the assault would have taken. You would think they would have hurriedly left after discharging the rifle. I have wondered if possibly David wasn't killed until after Heidi was attacked? Could he have been forced at gunpoint to watch whatever happened to Heidi prior to himself being killed?

Has it ever been stated by LE how far Heidi's body was found from the car? I know they said that David's body was found inside the car and Heidi was found outside of the car. I've also wondered if perhaps she was marched at gunpoint a significant distance from the car before being murdered?

MOO

I think if the killer targeted David first, especially if shooting him from a distance...Heidi's first response would be to go towards David, trying to figure out what is wrong and help him...It would take a moment for her to register she is in danger because it was unprovoked/expected. She might not even put loud noise + david falling=danger for a few moments. That is normal...

 

[JohnTate90210]

I think if the killer targeted David first, especially if shooting him from a distance...Heidi's first response would be to go towards David, trying to figure out what is wrong and help him...It would take a moment for her to register she is in danger because it was unprovoked/expected. She might not even put loud noise + david falling=danger for a few moments. That is normal...

How about the idea that they were out of the car and ran back to it when they saw trouble. I doubt it, but that's an alternative idea. I suspect somebody shot David through the side window and she attempted to flee. Or perhaps they saw trouble coming from the driver's side and were both attempting to escape out the passenger door.

With that caliber rifle, is it possible both were hit with a single shot? I'm thinking if they were sitting side-by-side and David was shot from the side, could the bullet have passed through and wounded Heidi?

It sure would be nice to have a bit more information to work from!

 

[AnnaGrace]

I agree JohnTate. There's just been so little released in this case, it's hard to figure. I suppose it could be possible that Heidi was shot and wounded when David was shot. Then she could have tried to run away and he either shot her there and then or chased her and shot her farther away from the car.

I'm curious too, about the gun. It wasn't announced until two years later what type of gun it was IIRC. Does that mean that it was found in a search or had it been sold and they traced it? I just don't know. The DNA was announced at the same time, so could the DNA have come off the gun?

 

[AnnaGrace]

I just looked back an article about the info on the gun and the DNA. It was three years later. It's probably information LE had for awhile and just released it at that time, thinking it may bring in more tips. I sure wish we knew more!