VA - Freshman daughter, mom 'good time drop off' outrages VA university

[bluesneakers]

Well, here is a topical article in this morning's news...



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...s-sexual-assault-responsibility-happened.html

Damn. I've always had so much respect for her as a musician and animal rights activist.

 

[flourish]

It was juvenile to say the least. It was funny to me as a 59 yr old woman, sorry but it was. I do not see it as these guys and wanting to rape woman, I just don't. Was it in poor taste, ... yeah it was. But dang it, it was funny, to me and when I think about my husband and seeing the guys that where there that day we dropped our daughter off to college, let me just say that there were some hot guys there and I could see my husband sort of realize that he was not that hard, hot young good looking young man that he used to be, so I can understand that the banners would have been uncomfortable to some. jmo idk I've lost the phrase, what they call men that buy that sport car around 40 yrs old.. maybe that's after they drop off the kid for college tht they get the urge. jmo idk

Mid-life crisis?


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[Elley Mae]

You said as much on page 2. School officials, however, disagree. I'd replied to your previous post with quotes from the statements released by faculty of ODU.

The school officials who denounced the banners made a correlation between them and sexual assault themselves. Actually, they also mentioned relationship violence, dating violence, sexual harassment, and violence against women in their statements too.

So while some may feel they're just a poor attempt at a joke, school officials themselves have taken a very different stance.

BTW a page # is not good, post #'s work better. TIA

I have mine set at 100 post a page.

 

[BritsKate]

Complaining about the thread veering off topic. The topic itself has never been calling horny guys rapists, but calling rapists rapists.


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Indeed. Just to dispel another rape myth:

Myth: The primary motive for rape is impulsive sexual desire.

Fact: Studies show that the major motive for rape is power, not sex. Sex is used as a weapon to inflict pain, violence and humiliation. Most rapists appear to have normal personalities with an abnormal tendency to be aggressive and violent. Between 2/3 and 3/4 of sexual assaults are planned in advance.

https://www.mnsu.edu/varp/assault/myths.html

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Complaining about the thread veering off topic. The topic itself has never been calling horny guys rapists, but calling rapists rapists.


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I don't think that there where any rapes reported in this story so technically rape is not the primary topic.

JMO

 

[flourish]

I don't think that there where any rapes reported in this story so technically rape is not the primary topic.

JMO

True.


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[LinasK]

I don't think that there where any rapes reported in this story so technically rape is not the primary topic.

JMO

These banners are essentially promoting rape. That's why we are outraged! If the university didn't also see this, they wouldn't be investigating this Frat house. Whose "good time"??? At whose expense???

 

[Deleted member 39678]

These banners are essentially promoting rape. That's why we are outraged! If the university didn't also see this, they wouldn't be investigating this Frat house. Whose "good time"??? At whose expense???

I didn't say that rape is off topic. I'm not sure that the banners are promoting rape though. They could be promoting promiscuous behavior which is not illegal.

I do think the banners are in poor taste no matter what people feel they mean.

JMO.

 

[Firefliezz21]

I didn't say that rape is off topic. I'm not sure that the banners are promoting rape though. They could be promoting promiscuous behavior which is not illegal.

I do think the banners are in poor taste no matter what people feel they mean.

JMO.

To me, the banners are a reminder to every parent that not all college students have been raised in a home environment that emphasizes personal responsibility, self-control and respect.

 

[katydid23]

That's what it looks like to me. Shouldn't these rules be gender neutral? Why did the male student in Amherst case got expelled, if he was drunk to the point of the blacking out (female student admitted he was very drunk in her text message)? If he was a female, wouldn't he be considered a victim (if female is drunk to the point of blacking out, don't we consider her a victim?)Yet being a male he is expelled from school.
And counselor's recommendation was to blame him for the encounter? Hope this guy wins his lawsuit.

"The counselor’s recommendation was to blame Doe for the encounter. Her reply: “But I mean [roommate] knows me it’s pretty obvi I wasn’t an innocent bystander.’’"
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2015/05/29/amherst/4t6JtKmaz7vlYSrQk5NDyJ/story.html

That is what I find so outrageous and frustrating in this case. The female that accused the male student actually committed a sex act upon HIM, when he was passed out drunk. So she was the rapist.

But TWO YEARS LATER she comes forth and accuse him of rape AND HE IS EXPELLED, in his senior year. And it was on nothing but her word. So how are people saying it is all pro-male and against the accusers when this woman was able to ruin this guys entire life with a lie that was two years old?

And even NOW, he is expelled and has a bad mark on his record. IMO, it is preposterous and angers me to no end.

 

[katydid23]

Saying ' be ready for a good time' does not mean it is a threat of rape. Go to any campus frat party and the line of girls waiting to get in is out the door. Why is that? It is not because they want to be raped it is because they want ' a good time.' They want to play Beer Pong and dance and meet new people. JMO

 

[BritsKate]

An editorial in ODU's student newspaper:

Lets cook up a little context before we pour on the rape culture. Sexual assault is at an epidemic level in the United States:

One in six women will experience sexual assault in her life.

Between one in four and One in five women that attend college will experience sexual assault.

The first six weeks of freshman year are the most likely time for a female student to experience sexual assault

It’s estimated that less than five percent of university-related sexual assaults are reported

It’s estimated that 97 percent of rapists will never spend time in jail, and they tend to be serial offenders.

The second most common insurance claim filed against fraternities is sexual assault.

Imagine what it would be like to be a parent, to be aware of those numbers, and to see those banners: the last day of really parenting your kid, the worst thing you can imagine; and a house with giant signs advertising exactly the kind of environment it happens in.

It’s a wonder the house wasn’t burned down.

We live in a society that discourages, devalues and objectifies half of us. Guess which half. Hint: the half that hasn’t been president, gets paid less, faces problematic media representation, and doesn’t make up nearly enough rock bands. That unequal treatment is critical to acknowledge when we talk about gender and our society.

The idea that we have “rape culture” is that we, as a society, minimalize, trivialize or ignore rape; that we tell girls not to look a certain way or go certain places instead of telling boys not to view and treat girls a certain way; that we’ve stigmatized being a victim of rape more than being a perpetrator of it.

http://www.maceandcrown.com/2015/08/31/rape-culture-on-odu-campus/

 

[bluesneakers]

An editorial in ODU's student newspaper:


http://www.maceandcrown.com/2015/08/31/rape-culture-on-odu-campus/

- It’s countless fraternity chapters that still think it’s OK to chant, “No means yes, yes means anal.”

- It’s one in three college males admitting that they would commit rape if they knew it wouldn’t come back to haunt them.

- It’s universities expelling students for cheating but not for raping.

- Six percent of college males are rapists. They live, study, work and party among us. In our own words and actions, we must destroy any notion that rape is anything less than a heinous crime. It is not funny. It is not the victim’s fault. It is a big deal.

^ Seeing these in a list like this is sobering. I would hope most parents dropping off their daughters know these statistics and have prepped and planned and discussed it with them so by the time you're dropping her off at school the banners should be a reminder (a sad, infuriating reminder) of just how unsafe a university campus can be. But also knowing those stats and knowing the facts behind the "joke" of the banners is what makes me the most livid.

 

[katydid23]

An editorial in ODU's student newspaper:


http://www.maceandcrown.com/2015/08/31/rape-culture-on-odu-campus/

I think there is some controversy with those statistics. I am not sure it is really as high as that. The arguments against are found in several 'male empowerment' sites because they are fighting back against the unfairness that is happening now.

for example, in terms of that 1 in 5 college women are victims of sexual assault:


That finding diverges wildly from the notion that one in five college women will be sexually assaulted by the time they graduate. That’s the number most often used to suggest there is overwhelming sexual violence on America’s college campuses. It comes from a 2007 study funded by the National Institute of Justice, called the Campus Sexual Assault Study, or CSA. (I cited it last year in a story on campus drinking and sexual assault.) The study asked 5,466 female college students at two public universities, one in the Midwest and one in the South, to answer an online survey about their experiences with sexual assault. The survey defined sexual assault as everything from nonconsensual sexual intercourse to such unwanted activities as “forced kissing,” “fondling,” and “rubbing up against you in a sexual way, even if it is over your clothes.”

“Unfortunately, researchers have been unable to determine the precise incidence of sexual assault on American campuses because the incidence found depends on how the questions are worded and the context of the survey.” Take the National Crime Victimization Survey, the nationally representative sample conducted by the federal government to find rates of reported and unreported crime. For the years 1995 to 2011, as the University of Colorado Denver’s Rennison explained to me, it found that an estimated 0.8 percent of noncollege females age 18-24 revealed that they were victims of threatened, attempted, or completed rape/sexual assault. Of the college females that age during that same time period, approximately 0.6 percent reported they experienced such attempted or completed crime.

http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl...ult_is_a_serious_problem_but_the_efforts.html

 

[katydid23]

- It’s countless fraternity chapters that still think it’s OK to chant, “No means yes, yes means anal.”

- It’s one in three college males admitting that they would commit rape if they knew it wouldn’t come back to haunt them.

- It’s universities expelling students for cheating but not for raping.

- Six percent of college males are rapists. They live, study, work and party among us. In our own words and actions, we must destroy any notion that rape is anything less than a heinous crime. It is not funny. It is not the victim’s fault. It is a big deal.

^ Seeing these in a list like this is sobering. I would hope most parents dropping off their daughters know these statistics and have prepped and planned and discussed it with them so by the time you're dropping her off at school the banners should be a reminder (a sad, infuriating reminder) of just how unsafe a university campus can be. But also knowing those stats and knowing the facts behind the "joke" of the banners is what makes me the most livid.

That 6% that are considered rapists---does that include males that have sexual relations with a consenting female that has been drinking?

 

[katydid23]

Another very interesting article about the current state of affairs:

http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl...ult_is_a_serious_problem_but_the_efforts.html


[What I am reading about specific cases flies in the face of the narrative being driven by the 'rape culture' proponents.]

The Sexual Victimization of College Women, a 2000 study commissioned by the U.S. Department of Justice, is the basis for another widely cited statistic, even grimmer than the finding of CSA: that one in four college women will be raped. (An activist organization, One in Four, takes its name from the finding.) The study itself, however, found a completed rape rate among its respondents of 1.7 percent. How does a study that finds less than 2 percent of college women in a given year are raped become a 25 percent likelihood? In addition to the 1.7 percent of victims of completed rape, the survey found that another 1.1 percent experienced attempted rape. As the authors wrote, “[O]ne might conclude that the risk of rape victimization for college women is not high; ‘only’ about 1 in 36 college women (2.8 percent) experience a completed rape or attempted rape in an academic year.”

But the authors go on to make several assumptions that ratchet up the risk. The study was carried out during the spring and asked women to describe any assaults experienced during that academic year. The researchers decided to double the numbers they received from their subjects, in order to extrapolate their findings over an entire calendar year, even as they acknowledged that this was “problematic,” as students rarely attend school for 12 months. That calculation brought the incidence figure to nearly 5 percent. Although college is designed to be a four-year experience, the authors note that it takes students “an average” of five years, so they then multiplied their newly-arrived-at 5 percent of student victims by five years, and thus they conclude: “The percentage of completed or attempted rape victimization among women in higher educational institutions might climb to between one-fifth and one-quarter.”

 

[jjenny]

Indeed. Just to dispel another rape myth:

https://www.mnsu.edu/varp/assault/myths.html

I would like to see links to the actual studies.

 

[bluesneakers]

I would like to see links to the actual studies.

Oops. Read it wrong.

 

[jjenny]

...

And even NOW, he is expelled and has a bad mark on his record. IMO, it is preposterous and angers me to no end.

Me too. It's pretty clear males are not given due process in these proceedings. If somebody can show up years after the fact, make a claim, and a student is expelled on this claim and nothing else, something ain't right.
And I believe that there is a very clear gender discrimination in this case. I mean, if a male performed oral sex on a very drunk female, and that female was expelled for "rape," and the male student was considered a victim, people would be outraged and rightly so. But drunk male is considered a "rapist" because a female performed oral sex on him while he was in his drunk state to the point of blacking out (which Amherst University accepted to be the fact, that he was blacked out from being drunk).

 

[jjenny]

Did you click on the link?

Do you see something I don't? I don't see any links to any studies. Saying something is a fact without providing any links to support the claim doesn't make it so.