VA - Grateful Dead Fan - Unidentified male, 26 June 1995 - #2

[KLCD620]

I ran across this posting last night from a woman named Adele in search of her lost relative, Jason Pursue. I tried to email the poster but the address does not exist anymore. I somehow found a woman with the same name on Facebook...I don't have a fb account myself so I couldn't send her a message. I did however see that she has a friend named Caroline O...... Any thoughts??

http://www.yourfamily.com/roots/yourfam.mv?qy=purdie&xo=yfmsg&xc=Query&xn=202&xt=lost_bb

According to Google map, there's no town called Hartwood in CT. Maybe it's Hartford as she refer to where Jason lives with his grandparents prior to missing. Jason Purdie is not one of 140 names list as ruled out on NamUs. I wish Adele would post a photo of him in her post when she searched for him.

It's worth for you to submit "Jason Purdie" to the case manager. CarlK- hope you can reach Adele by thru her FB & show her "Jason Doe" from the FB as UID Grateful Dead fan. Let's see if it's him as her missing cousin's son.

 

[rob525]

I'm going through young children missing from the 1980s. I'm wondering if someone had kidnapped this kid as a young child and that's why they aren't coming forth to identify him.

One of the theories I had about this case was that of the non-custodial parental kidnapping at some point. But I have found no instances where there seems to be a potential match. Although early on I thought Dustin Mansell might be a fit but I have learned that he has been located. I did come across Kelly Hollan on NCMEC. The timing fits as far as age goes.
There is no mention of a scar being present with Jason but given he died of head trauma that may not have been detected.It has been stated that Kelly Hollan had cleft pallet.The nose on the reconstruction of Jason seems slightly askew which seems similar to the photos of Kelly.
This is really a shot in the dark but after all the ruled outs listed on NamUS, who knows.

 

[crissianni]

I've read almost all posts related to this case and I feel somewhat familiar with this case, although not as deeply involved as some of you. However, due to my upbringing and culture I have a theory that I have not see on any of the threads I have read. It answers the question of why no one has ever come looking for him and also answers the question of his lack of identity.

In fundamentalist mormon communities (polygamist sects) many young boys are run out of the community. The reasons they are driven out and abandoned are prescribed to be because they have "sinned" but logically speaking, a community in which one man marries multiples wives means that a certain number of men must be eliminated from the community in order to sustain the polygamist practice.

If this unidentified young man was a "Lost Boy" (as they are referred to in Mormon culture), this would explain his apparent lack of connectivity to any family or identity, as well as his age.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_boys_(Mormon_fundamentalism)

 

[PHB]

thats an interesting possibility, crissianni. the flds dont always register their births either, right? if that was the case with this man, he would have no birth cert/ssn, and anyone who cared about him probably lives on a compound and wouldnt have internet access.
also, what if he is european or canadian?
is it true that former soviet-bloc dental work is distinctive?
and ive met south americans, mostly from brazil and argentina with fair skin, red or blond hair, etc.
thoughts?

 

[crissianni]

thats an interesting possibility, crissianni. the flds dont always register their births either, right? if that was the case with this man, he would have no birth cert/ssn, and anyone who cared about him probably lives on a compound and wouldnt have internet access.
also, what if he is european or canadian?
is it true that former soviet-bloc dental work is distinctive?
and ive met south americans, mostly from brazil and argentina with fair skin, red or blond hair, etc.
thoughts?

No, the FLDS faithful do not always register their births. The length of time this man has remained unidentified, and the large amount of effort put into discovering his identity with no success are part of what led me to this theory. If this were the case, his family would likely not have Internet access.

I have a contact to the Utah Attorney General. If you see it as being useful in any capacity, I will approach him and see what more I can find out about FLDS "lost boys" and if the AG office has a record somewhere of FLDS births that cannot be accounted for through identification of a living individual. There's quite a bit upheaval with all the Warren Jeffs stuff, so there *may* be something there. Unfortunately, there are many compounds outside of Utah and *if* this young man even were a "lost boy," he could be from another state.

You also raise a good point about the possibility he is from a foreign country.

Additionally, if he were under the age of 18 at the time of his death, and he (in life) was reported missing/runaway (perhaps in another state), VA may have not associated their case with what would have been a missing child case at the time. Since he would be over the age of 18 by now, he may have long ago been purged from NCIC. I am told this happens some of the time. If not, I think we would have many more teenage MPs than we currently have available online.

Also, I can't figure out if my private messaging is working (I am new here) and am trying to get some help on a totally different matter... any assistance with that would be appreciated... don't want to post unrelated stuff on a thread.

 

[PHB]

hi crissianni,
you just click on the person's username, then a drop down box appears. the second line says "send a private message to so-and-so".
also, theres a high degree of inbreeding in those communities, right? if thats the case could the Utah AG compare his dna to the flds men who have been sent to prison? or even test his dna for the genetic disorders this population is known for?
i think youre onto something!

 

[crissianni]

hi crissianni,
you just click on the person's username, then a drop down box appears. the second line says "send a private message to so-and-so".
also, theres a high degree of inbreeding in those communities, right? if thats the case could the Utah AG compare his dna to the flds men who have been sent to prison? or even test his dna for the genetic disorders this population is known for?
i think youre onto something!

I am going to take a little time to prep before I contact the Utah AG so that I am well prepared with what I say and and so I say it clearly. First, I'd like to talk to one of the lawyers I know about how to best approach the issue (as in how to "pitch" it), and talk to my contact about the best way to establish communication (in person, in a letter, etc.).

I also think it would be better to go to him with a few examples of UIDs that fit the profile of FLDS "lost boys." From his perspective, as the legal representative of UT, his primary interest is likely to be the crime committed in his state (child abandonment) more-so than an unidentified body on the other side of the country. I am not familiar with many cases; if you know any other UIDs I could bring up alongside our Jason Doe here, that would be nice.

I like your idea about DNA. The FLDS in Southern UT/Northern AZ (Hilldale/Colorado City) have a limited gene pool. For example, a very rare disease, Fumarase Deficiency, was only documented 13 times worldwide until 1990, when 20 new cases were diagnosed in the Hilldale/Colorado City settlement. My guess is that there are likely distinctive genetic markers in the population.

I think another good step to take would be for someone to volunteer to check into Canada's MP's database(s) (unless someone here already knows how to find it/how it works). I think your suggestion that Jason Doe may possibly be from a foreign country has a LOT of merit.... I'll look into it when I have the time, but if someone beats me to it, more power to them!

 

[PHB]

crissianni,
do you know where most of these lost boys go? i saw a piece on 20/20 or dateline or something once, and i think the lost boys they interviewed were in LA. if we knew where the largest concentrations of them were, we could then look for uid white males in that area. some more questions:
does anyone maintain a list of flds runaways?
jason doe had no dental work. does that jibe w/ someone who grew up on a compound?
i take it you're Mormon. does his 5-pointed star tatoo have any significance to your faith?
thanks!

 

[crissianni]

crissianni,
do you know where most of these lost boys go? i saw a piece on 20/20 or dateline or something once, and i think the lost boys they interviewed were in LA. if we knew where the largest concentrations of them were, we could then look for uid white males in that area. some more questions:
does anyone maintain a list of flds runaways?
jason doe had no dental work. does that jibe w/ someone who grew up on a compound?
i take it you're Mormon. does his 5-pointed star tatoo have any significance to your faith?
thanks!

Funny that you mentioned the 5-pointed star. The 5-pointed star is one of the symbols found on many LDS temples (I'm sure all the big temples have them). I don't remember what they represent, as I was raised LDS but am not LDS any longer.

However, it would be odd for a member of any LDS sect I am familiar with to tattoo a sacred symbol on themselves. It would be odd for them to even tattoo themselves because the LDS believe the human body is a temple and should not be defaced.

Now, if an LDS member, such as a young man kicked out of his home, "fell away," I don't see it as being odd. And if a young man was cast off, I'd think there was a good chance he would fall away, as he would likely feel abandoned not only by his family but also by his God. But if one did fall away I doubt they would tattoo a religious symbol. Probably something more secular.

The FLDS are quite self supportive, so I am not sure whether or not their compounds generally have dentists.

I would guess the FLDS church keeps a list of their runaways and castaways. Genealogy is a big part of mormonism. With all the legal action going on now, it may have been made available outside the FLDS circle.

I'll find out better answers to all these questions.

Now I am thinking also. What about other types of groups in the U.S. with little outside contact? For example, the Amish rumspringa practice. He fits the age bracket for this practice as well. I wonder if youth who leave the community and choose not to go back generally contact their families or if they are ostracized. I will ask my Amish friend.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ILPvaVPFsSc/SNcZ9aztliI/AAAAAAAAAG4/xOZvCiIHG-Y/s1600-h/pent0.jpg

 

[ClaireNC]

Hi crissianni, Thanks for sharing the info on the FLDS and its "Lost Boys". Makes total sense from the polygamy perspective, but I had never heard anything about it before and I love to learn new things! With that said, the possibility that Jason Doe is from one of the FLDS sects is really small, so don't put so much time into it, unless you have something about Jason Doe that really screams 'lost boy'. That will just burn you out and take away resources that could be better used in other ways.

There are so many runaways, throw-aways and teens/young adults that just simply do not have anybody in their lives that care enough to report them missing. Also there are many young men in their late teens and early twenties, who just take off to venture out on their own, even if their parents wish they had not.

IMO There are so many cultural factors/living situations where a young adult male would not be reported to officials as missing. Here are some statistics on the US population that I believe are relevant:
-The National Network for Youth suggests that approximately 1 to 1.3 million young people run away from home each year. http://www.acf.hhs.gov/index.html
- The number of children in foster care increased during the 1990s from 400,000 in 1990 to 567,000 in 1999 http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/?q=node/199
- Today less than half of children grow up with both natural parents. Nearly a third are born to unmarried parents, the majority of whom never live together, and another third are born to married parents who divorce before their child reaches adulthood. To further complicate matters, a substantial number of children are exposed to multiple marital disruptions and multiple father figures. http://apps.olin.wustl.edu/macarthur/working papers/wp-mclanahan2.htm
- Another factor that might result in a young adult not being reported as missing is poverty. In 1996, the number of people in poverty was 36.5 million, representing 13.7 percent of the population. http://www.census.gov/prod/3/97pubs/P60-198.PDF

To put it into perspective, the number of FDLS members in the US is relatively small, leading to the conclusion of Jason Doe being part of that culture as statistically unlikely.
- Fundamentalist Mormons differ from mainstream Mormonism primarily in their belief in and practice of plural marriage. There are thought to be between 20,000 and 60,000 members of fundamentalist sects, (0.1–0.4% of Mormons), with roughly half of them practicing polygamy. Mormons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- Various sources indicate that there are between 500 and 1000 FDLS "lost boys" in the US. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/jun/14/usa.julianborger

The Amish population is just a bit larger:
As of 2000, over 165,000 Old Order Amish live in the United States and approximately 1500 live in Canada.[5] A 2008 study suggested their numbers have increased to 227,000,[6] and in 2010 a study suggested their population had grown by 10% in the past two years to 249,000, with increasing movement to the West.[1] Amish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In summary, the likelihood that Jason Doe was an FDLS "lost boy" is very small. The possibility that might be Amish and out doing a rumspringa adventure has already been brought up here. Both religions are such a small part of the overall population that it is statistically unlikely.

 

[crissianni]

Dear ClaireNC,

Thank you so much for your kindly written and thoughtful reply. Also thank you for pulling up those stats! So quick and very useful.

Here is my take. I also agree that there is a slim to none chance that Jason Doe would have been from the FLDS. First, most of the FLDS are out west, not back east. That's a long way to travel.

Second, I think it is more likely he would have been a runaway whose identity never made it to the Internet.... this man died in 1995. If he were a reported missing youth, by the time states started putting info up on the Internet, he would have been over 18. He also could have turned 18 before he died and asked to have his name removed because he wanted to cut off contact. And with the large number of reported runaways, he probably got scrubbed from the records years ago.

I believe there is too much disincentive in relation to runaway children that results in inadequate documentation. For example:

"Runaways comprise the largest category of missing children. The manpower and resources needed to track them, as well as the perception that they will eventually return to their families by themselves, have made them a difficult enforcement problem." (Utah Department of Public Safety Bureau of Criminal Identification: http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/MPCmissing.html )

"These departments admitted they'd been violating federal law by delaying their reports to the FBI -- often in hopes the children will return home on their own -- or by entirely ignoring cases of suspected runaways." (Seattle PI report on 2005 FBI findings of agency non-compliance prior to 2005: http://www.seattlepi.com/national/article/FBI-issues-statistics-on-missing-children-1198084.php )

Since "about one-fifth of runaways return within 24 hours, and, after one week, three-quarters of all runaways have returned home or to care," it is easy to see why properly handling runaway cases becomes a disincentive for law enforcement. (2002 U.S. Department of Justice "National Incidence Studies of Missing, Abducted, Runaway, and Throwaway Children" http://www.popcenter.org/problems/runaways/PDFs/Hammer_etal_2002.pdf )

My conclusion is that this is most likely who Jason Doe is- a normal U.S. boy who ran away.

Unfortunately, this theory doesn't solve the problem of identifying who he is. Perhaps my efforts would be better spent drudging up ancient missing child records, but this seems like an impossible task and this would definitely exhaust me.

So what is the point of myself, or anyone else for that matter, doing anything to try to identify this young man, or any of these young UIDs for that matter, considering the barriers? Especially considering that by the time officials ask the public for help, all the easy routes to identification have been exhausted.

That leaves only the difficult and obscure routes. And I will be ashamed if I do not make some sort of an attempt to leave this world a better place for me having been in it.

This is my take. The Lost Boys idea is a long shot, but it is something I feel capable of doing. Especially if I doubled or tripled up well-vetted potential UIDs and raised interest that way. If it doesn't work for this case, perhaps it would for another.

Thank you so much though, for pointing out how easily something of this nature can burn a person out. That is what happened to me last year. I don't know if you read my initial post, but I actually had this theory a year ago. I spent so much time consumed by this and a few other cases that by the time I actually registered on the site, I couldn't take any more of it. It was depressing and exhausting to think about and once I started to think about it, it was easy to get consumed with it. So it is always good to remind myself not to let that happen again.

With this in mind and your kind words taken into consideration, here is my conclusion. I plan to look into the Lost Boy theory further, but to do it at a slowed pace so as not to end up frustrated enough that I walk away for another year. With the people that I know and the resources I feel I have, it would be easiest for me to investigate this theory. It will not be the daunting task that it would be for most other members.

I can tell from the way that you write that you are a kind-hearted person. Thank you for introducing yourself to me and for offering up a valued opinion. Through thorough questioning and seeing things from multiple angles, we will get the best results.

Take care and I will keep in touch.

Hi crissianni, Thanks for sharing the info on the FLDS and its "Lost Boys". Makes total sense from the polygamy perspective, but I had never heard anything about it before and I love to learn new things! With that said, the possibility that Jason Doe is from one of the FLDS sects is really small, so don't put so much time into it, unless you have something about Jason Doe that really screams 'lost boy'. That will just burn you out and take away resources that could be better used in other ways.

There are so many runaways, throw-aways and teens/young adults that just simply do not have anybody in their lives that care enough to report them missing. Also there are many young men in their late teens and early twenties, who just take off to venture out on their own, even if their parents wish they had not.

IMO There are so many cultural factors/living situations where a young adult male would not be reported to officials as missing. Here are some statistics on the US population that I believe are relevant:
-The National Network for Youth suggests that approximately 1 to 1.3 million young people run away from home each year. http://www.acf.hhs.gov/index.html
- The number of children in foster care increased during the 1990s from 400,000 in 1990 to 567,000 in 1999 http://www.childtrendsdatabank.org/?q=node/199
- Today less than half of children grow up with both natural parents. Nearly a third are born to unmarried parents, the majority of whom never live together, and another third are born to married parents who divorce before their child reaches adulthood. To further complicate matters, a substantial number of children are exposed to multiple marital disruptions and multiple father figures. http://apps.olin.wustl.edu/macarthur/working papers/wp-mclanahan2.htm
- Another factor that might result in a young adult not being reported as missing is poverty. In 1996, the number of people in poverty was 36.5 million, representing 13.7 percent of the population. http://www.census.gov/prod/3/97pubs/P60-198.PDF

To put it into perspective, the number of FDLS members in the US is relatively small, leading to the conclusion of Jason Doe being part of that culture as statistically unlikely.
- Fundamentalist Mormons differ from mainstream Mormonism primarily in their belief in and practice of plural marriage. There are thought to be between 20,000 and 60,000 members of fundamentalist sects, (0.1–0.4% of Mormons), with roughly half of them practicing polygamy. Mormons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
- Various sources indicate that there are between 500 and 1000 FDLS "lost boys" in the US. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/jun/14/usa.julianborger

The Amish population is just a bit larger:
As of 2000, over 165,000 Old Order Amish live in the United States and approximately 1500 live in Canada.[5] A 2008 study suggested their numbers have increased to 227,000,[6] and in 2010 a study suggested their population had grown by 10% in the past two years to 249,000, with increasing movement to the West.[1] Amish - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In summary, the likelihood that Jason Doe was an FDLS "lost boy" is very small. The possibility that might be Amish and out doing a rumspringa adventure has already been brought up here. Both religions are such a small part of the overall population that it is statistically unlikely.

 

[ClaireNC]

Dear ClaireNC,

Thank you so much for your kindly written and thoughtful reply. Also thank you for pulling up those stats! So quick and very useful.

(respectfully snipped)

I will be ashamed if I do not make some sort of an attempt to leave this world a better place for me having been in it.

This is my take. The Lost Boys idea is a long shot, but it is something I feel capable of doing. Especially if I doubled or tripled up well-vetted potential UIDs and raised interest that way. If it doesn't work for this case, perhaps it would for another.

Thank you so much though, for pointing out how easily something of this nature can burn a person out. (respectfully snipped). So it is always good to remind myself not to let that happen again.

With this in mind and your kind words taken into consideration, here is my conclusion. I plan to look into the Lost Boy theory further, but to do it at a slowed pace so as not to end up frustrated enough that I walk away for another year. With the people that I know and the resources I feel I have, it would be easiest for me to investigate this theory. It will not be the daunting task that it would be for most other members.

I can tell from the way that you write that you are a kind-hearted person. Thank you for introducing yourself to me and for offering up a valued opinion. Through thorough questioning and seeing things from multiple angles, we will get the best results.

Take care and I will keep in touch.

Hi crissianni, I am so glad to see that you took my comments in the spirit that they were written. I was afraid that my post was too harsh and come on here this morning to see if I could edit it.

Yes, thorough questioning and seeing things from multiple perspectives is the best way to get results. Taking advantage of each members individual skills is also critical. You have a special set of skills and network of contacts that most of us do not have access to. You should certainly use that unique talent to ensure that we have covered all of the bases, in this particular case.

There might also be a larger topic of the FLDS "lost boys" that would be relevant to Websleuths that is separate from the Unidentified section of the forum. Maybe start a thread down in the Parking Lot to see if there is interest and a place for it? Or contact a Mod and see what they think. While I don't know much about the FLDS practices, it sounds like the "lost boys" would be particularly vulnerable when they are pushed out of the family. As a mother of a 22 year old son, my heart hurts that the thought.

Edit to add this link: http://www.childbrides.org/boys.html How sad!

 

[Mels3kidz]

This is so frustrating. It is so solvable or it should be.

*IF* the ME's office was correct and Jason's family did contact them but didn't claim him then only way IMO we will find out who he is would be if younger siblings (who might not be aware of their parents decision or who might be waiting until after the parents pass if there was acrimony in the relationship with Jason) or if extended family searches for him.

Otherwise it might come down to a lucky hit with DNA (maybe an unrelated case generates a hit).

Sorry for being so down on this right now but I've felt drawn to this case because he died the day before my birthday. And now we have the 17th anniversary coming up next week and I just feel so bad that this boy is alone.

Melissa

 

[WholeLottaRosie]

I am adding this now as it is fresh in my mind, and, while on one hand I think it is nothing, I thought I would throw it out for you all to look at.

I am reading a book called How I Learned To Cook: Culinary Educations from the World's Greatest Chefs by
Witherspoon, Kimberly, Meehan, Peter, which are essays by chefs.

One is by Chef Jimmy Bradley, and in it he says (sometime in 1985 - 87 or so, he is a little vague) he was working in a seafood restaurant in Naggansett RI and he was in the kitchen, and got his break to cooking when a cook went to a GD concert and was never heard from again. Now, he says no more about this. But, I got to to thinking about our Doe and had to look at this all. I think a cook at that time could have been 16 - 20, so adding 8 - 10 years could put him 24 - 30 in 95. Unlikely, I suppose, but, I had to put it out there. Not sure where to go from here, I find no RI missing that fits but who knows if the cook was reported, or ever really heard from again.

 

[necco]

In addition to the "lost boy" theory, I have recently started to wonder if some unidentified cases are actually ex-communicated Anabaptists (Amish, Old Order Mennonite, etc) or those who went on rumspringa and never returned. If they were supposed to be out of touch with their communities, who would report them missing?

 

[Aphra]

If you're familiar with the Maricopa Jane Doe (later identified as Tawni Lee Mazzone) case, when she was identified a few years ago it turned out that nobody was looking for her because they assumed she was still alive and had just run away. She was never reported missing. It was only when her brother got online and started looking for her that she was identified. So my guess is that this is a runaway, no one is looking for him because they assume he's still out there somewhere, and until someone gets on the Internet and starts really looking for him, he's going to remain unidentified.

(I realize that this is not an original thought. But I think it's the one closest to the truth.)

 

[Mels3kidz]

So my guess is that this is a runaway, no one is looking for him because they assume he's still out there somewhere, and until someone gets on the Internet and starts really looking for him, he's going to remain unidentified.

(I realize that this is not an original thought. But I think it's the one closest to the truth.)

I just wish we knew: 1. What LE/ME initially released to the public regarding Jason's description and 2. What the caller asked about him that made LE think that the family had contacted them. (For example if they didn't release the info about the home made star tattoo and the caller asked if he had one we'd have a pretty good indication that LE was right.)

Melissa, just my :twocents:

 

[Beamie]

17 years ago today...

 

[Mels3kidz]

17 years ago today...

I wish we had a flower icon....but this will have to do. @--->----@--->----

Mel

 

[neverletgo]

Here we are, 17 years later.

May you rest in peace. :heartbeat: