VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #8

[Claudette]

It's called "Innocent until proven guilty" and is what our law system is supposedly based on. Perhaps you've heard of it?

I am not the court system and am free to have my personal opinions.

 

[cluciano63]

That seems to be debatable. When I asked the question earlier, I was told that police can take you in for questioning without an arrest warrant.

Of course, I was aware that it happens all the time around here, I just didn't know if it was legal to do that in Virginia.

Anyone else know for sure?

They always take the spouse "downtown" when the other spouse is dead on the floor. Just watch "Snapped". But then again, there is proof of a crime. In this case, there is no real evidence of a crime as yet.

 

[random989898]

In my opinion, LE were onto JM well before they even released the surveillance video. That is why they chose to cut the video the way they did, rather than right before Hannah walks into the frame. They wanted to make sure everyone saw a close up of JM so they created the clip to start with him high fiving the women and walking right in front of the camera. They were already well aware he crossed over and caught up to Hannah. I am sure they already knew by then who he was as well. They just wanted to get any other info they could from other witnesses who might have seen him or come into contact with him that night.

Police also have many of the texts between Hannah and her friends from that night (I am sure friends would have turned them over). There may be lots of info in those texts. If Hannah and JM sat in Tempo for 20 minutes, I am sure she was texting her friends throughout. I work at a university and most of the girls text all time, they text during class, while walking, while eating, while drinking, even while sitting at a table talking with each other. She may have sent a text saying - nevermind on the lost thing or coming to get me, I think I have a ride, guy here at the bar is going to drive me over. (That is a total hypothetical - just saying police know what the conversations were that may have led them to JM.)

I also remember reading that police said they HAD talked to JM but wanted to talk to him again. We have no idea what was said during that initial conversation or how long it was. We have had zero information from JM about anything he has said or done. DailyMail saying grandma said that mom said that JM said....absolutely meaningless. I completely understand JM lawyering up and not talking. He has probably known for awhile that the police suspect him.

I also don't think that JM sauntered up to Hannah and sweettalked her into having a drink at a bar. Hannah has been walking around lost, confused or trying to find someone/something for over an hour and a half at this point. That isn't the frame of mind, drunk or not, to want to sit down and have a drink in an upscale bar, no matter how cute the guy is or how good his pick up line was. I am sure by then she was tired and just wanted to get back to her friends, party or whatever destination she had in mind. I am guessing they ended up in Tempo because either JM knew someone who worked there, there was an offer of help, a need to use the bathroom etc. JM may have bought himself a drink while Hannah was in the bathroom. Then maybe he bought her one while he finished his. It could have been a coke, a water, a beer - who knows. I can imagine she was in a rush to get out of there and get to where she was going and I am sure she was texting throughout.

I think LE has released about 1% of what they know and I think I believe about 1% of what they have said. I don't know if they are doing a fantastic job or a terrible job but they obviously have a plan they are executing in what they release and how they release it. I have no idea what happened to Hannah or JM's guilt or innocence but I don't think the theatrics of the press conference are helpful either way. If he is innocent - a huge mess and if he is guilty, kind of compromises the case (unless they have a smoking gun of a body with his DNA on it)

 

[Claudia]

Oops.
Ignore this... brain malfunction.

 

[franco]

Again, we still aren't sure when she had her phone, if she lost it, if a perp was using her phone to text, etc. We have speculated about this a lot, and I don't think we have the answers yet. We really don't even know she was really lost. That has been speculated as well. Did she lie and say she was lost, did someone else say she was lost, was she really lost? All unanswered unfortunately.

well she was going to some party to meet her friends right ? so after leaving the first party she was suppose head to party 2 as was arranged with her and her friends instead she stumbled around. She clearly had her phone during that time and was texting her friends long before she made it down town . We know she was doing things of her own free will because we see her walking around all over town in the videos.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Link please? I did not hear anything about anyone being seen getting into, out of car.

[wtvr.com - 9-19-14]

Quote: "Somebody got out of it [car], somebody got back into it, and someone got back into it.' he said."

(from my notes...)

 

[Lava]

They always take the spouse "downtown" when the other spouse is dead on the floor. Just watch "Snapped". But then again, there is proof of a crime. In this case, there is no real evidence of a crime as yet.

I think in some situations you can be detained, without being arrested. And they can question you, but you don't have to answer. Although, admittedly I don't know all the rules of detainment.

IMO - They probably could have had enough evidence to detain him at least based on whatever they used to get the warrants. I'm curious as to why they didn't as well.

 

[Pasithea]

*comment deleted*

 

[Soulmagent]

This story is so odd to me.

I do not understand how she get so lost. She had a cell phone and probably a smart phone so you know she had google maps app on it. Kids today know phones way better than me and I am sure if I know how to use that tool she did too.

She seems pretty intoxicated but she can type clearly to her friends then I am sure she could have typed in an address.

What kind of town is it that a young women enters a shopping restaurant and within minutes there are like a bunch of guys following her. Pretty freaky.

JLM I do not know what to think. If he had a girlfriend who lives with him like his Grandma says then I am sure he probably was trying to avoid coverage on him. I mean I can see that. He would have a lot of explaining to do and if nothing is certain on what happened to Hannah maybe he thought the girl was some where or whatever. Or of course he could have something to do with her disappearance.

All I have to do on my phone is say "siri ,take me home" And I am as good as there. i travel alot. So does Hannah.

I think to her phone records might turn thiis case arround.

 

[Vinny]

Wow..this thread is too busy to keep up.

 

[Pasithea]

I am not the court system and am free to have my personal opinions.

Sorry - that wasn't directed at you. My bad.

 

[GeeButtersnaps]

I think they have footage of the car somewhere but they do not see anyone in the car , So what they are looking for is someone who saw her or him get in the car.

Since we know people noticed her where ever she went and everyone left the bar in those 20 minutes ,I think they expect to have someone come forward.

We also know she turned down a ride from someone she knew ,which could be the guy she said was stalking her on her twitter for all we know. I find it unlikey she would of got into a strangers car.

Where did you see about someone stalking her on Twitter? How did I miss that?

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

11:50PM Hannah left a party on 14th St Northwest.

11:49-12:45 No one knows where she was.

12:46 She was seen at McGrady's.

If she had left at 11:50 and walked to McGrady's she would have arrived around 12am and would have entered the view of the camera on the left side of the screen.

Somehow, someway she ended up on the opposite side of McGrady's.

View attachment 59596

View attachment 59598

[video=youtube;EbceiUIHkbQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbceiUIHkbQ[/video]

However she certainly arrived at 12:46 from the right side of the screen, walking up Preston (which turns into Grady). She is stumbling.

She walks up and peeks inside the patio area. She then walks towards the door and proceeds to stumble off of the sidewalk. She is visibly inebriated. In physical distress.

She then proceeds to walk back the way she came on Preston, towards the downtown mall.

She would have had to walk completely out of the way through neighborhoods and side streets in order to reach Preston and arrive at McGrady's.

But a whole hour passed and no one has a clue what she was doing in that time. All we know is she arrived at Mcgrady's, got turned away, and then sprinted down Preston street and eventually slowed back down to a walk right in front of the Shell station.

I want to know where the heck was she for that hour? Did she stop by someone else's house and did they server her more booze? Perhaps those people are afraid to come forward?

Did she run down to the mall on some other street and and then run back up Preston?

Did she meet up with ANYONE?

Or are we to believe she was wandering around her neighborhood for an hour, alone, and not one person noticed a thin,pretty, 6 foot tall girl in tight pants and a crop top?

That missing hour is so suspicious!

 

[Cherry]

It's called "Innocent until proven guilty" and is what our law system is supposedly based on. Perhaps you've heard of it?

IUPG is for a court of law and our good jurors. It is Not however up to individual citizens to hold themselves to this law, only the jury of said suspects peers.

 

[TravelingBug]

If JM worked as a "transporter/orderly" in a hospital setting, I imagine that most scheduled surgeries occur during 6am-5ish. Does JM have a college degree? Does VA high school athletics association allow a non degreed person to coach or assist.

He was at Liberty University (at least for some time) and shown as a freshman on the football team for multiple years. I've never seen that he graduated.

It was a small private school and he was a volunteer coach who wasn't obligated to even be there every practice. And it's a D3 school in the Virginia Independent Schools Athletic Association / VIC league, which is very different.

And unless VA has different requirements, I'd guess they are similar to California

The requirements (even as a head coach) mandated by CIF http://www.cifstate.org/coaches-admin/coaching_education/certification

• Having taken a general coaching education class (a few options)
• Having had a sport specific concussion training
• Current First Aid and CPR

And if someone is hired, they can coach one sport season without certification to allow them to undergo the certification (so even then that's not required)

Anything beyond that is up to the school. And experience (playing and/or coaching) is often more of an issue over education. And in this case, and that particular school, faith is their first requirement for a staff person (and I'm assuming that part, at this school, also applies to volunteers)

Given the school he was a volunteer assistant coach at has staff people without a college degree (though they prefer it and it is required in many positions) I'd think it's extremely improbable JM having or not having a college degree would even remotely be a factor/consideration.

 

[franco]

All I have to do on my phone is say "siri ,take me home" And I am as good as there. i travel alot. So does Hannah.

I think to her phone records might turn thiis case arround.

yes thats what Im thinking... this case is so odd.

 

[Lava]

IUPG is for a court of law and our good jurors. It is Not however up to individual citizens to hold themselves to this law, only the jury of said suspects peers.

I believe your quoted words were directed at someone who said JM should have to prove his innocence. So, the poster is correct...it is innocent until proven guilty. JM doesn't have to do anything.

 

[zapped]

Looking at his records and info (including condition of his car), I don't think JM could very well afford to buy strangers drinks.

He had garnishments from unpaid bills. To those that are saying questioning will ruin his life, he has already been convicted of at least one misdemeanor, so he has to acknowledge that on all job apps that ask, have you ever been convicted of a crime? The one I looked up was Trespassing After being warned.

He has been charged with a (non-violent) Felony. He is familiar with criminal defense attorneys.

The alcoholic drinks he was buying for young girl may be more telling...

Average base income for a medical transporter is listed as roughly 25k at the link below.

http://www1.salary.com/Patient-Transporter-Salary.html

IMO thats more than enough to afford a decent used car. The fact that his job consists of driving, yet a dependable car wasnt a priority for him, makes me wonder what he was spending his money on.

Maybe drugs that arent easily traceable or drinking to excess?

Leaving the police station like he did, knowing that police were probably following him and driving recklessly regardless, lends a certain amount of credence to the above theory as well.

I dont see his actions of late as belonging to a sane, sober or mentally stable person and if he is innocent then he needs to slow down and think about how his actions are being perceived and how they are hurting his defense.

From a 45 year olds perspective the condition of his car and the fact that he's still renting at 33 years old doesnt say much for stability or having his stuff together either.

JMO

 

[hambirg]

* delete post*

In a court of law, yes. LE has to operate under that assuption too. This is an internet forum FYI. People are free to assume what they want. Welcome to the interwebs. Maybe you could drop into the Mike Brown/ Fergeson thread.

Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk 2

 

[RSC]

I agree.

Today, Longo made it pretty clear that he thinks JM murdered Hannah and said he hopes to get forensic back against him. After that, I would run as fast and far from LE as possible. Guilty or not. Jmo