VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #8

[verbonica]

Ok, good info. What people yesterday were referring was the kind of transport for disabled people in the community to/from hospital appointments. I don't know the name of it (just thought it might be one of those that you mentioned).

 

[TravelingBug]

I think if this case goes unsolved that certain members of this LE team with have majorly damaged egos.

<snip>

Gosh darn why are there no lawyers on this thread?

There are some.

Gitana1, for instance, has popped in and out.

She's not only a lawyer, but is verified as one.

And she's great about replying to questions.

 

[ksj3]

He did say she was in physical distress but then the black guy came up to her and he felt she was in good hands he thought they may know each other. I was saying that he didn't see any danger between HG and JM

For clarity:
"That's right the man we saw in the video actually came here to the police department. He tells us he was indeed following Hannah. He saw her. She appeared to be in distress. So he was following her to make sure she got to where she was going safely. As he was following her, he says a black male came up to her and put his arm around her. He stopped her. They were talking, and from what he could see it was either someone she knew or someone who was trying to help her. He thought everything was fine, and so he walked away," said Captain Gary Pleasants in a live interview with NBC 12.

"Any description of that black male?" we asked Captain Pleasants.

"They were still standing there when our witness left. He thought the gentleman was trying to help her, and hopefully that was the case, and if so we certainly need to speak to him," replied Captain Pleasants.

The first sighting is at 1:06 am taken from Sal's Pizza located at 221 E. Main St. It shows a white male walking into the cameras view, he looks over his shoulder, then steps into a doorway and Ms. Graham walks past him. After she passes, the male starts walking behind her. The second video is at 1:08 am taken from a camera at Tuel's Jewelers located at 319 E. Main St. The video shows Ms. Graham walking with the same white male some distance behind her.

UPDATE: At 10:15 pm the unidentified white male in the videos came to the police department. He told police that he was following Ms. Graham as she looked to be somewhat physically distressed and he wanted to make sure she got safely to wherever she was going. Soon after he was following her, he said that a black male came up to her and put his arm around her, stopping her. Ms. Graham and this black male started speaking and it appeared to the witness that the black male was either known to Ms. Graham or was trying to help her. The witness then walked away and he said that Ms. Graham and the black male were still standing and talking when he left. The black male is not shown in either of these videos.

Link: http://www.nbc12.com/story/26561910/hannah-update

 

[vegasgirlem]

I'm honestly so confused. I have no clue if POI is guilty. But he needs to get in and talk to the police asap. I'm sure he's freaking out, weather he hurt her or not. For some reason i'm just so worried about this whole situation. It doesn't exactly add up. I really hope they find her alive! But if not find her body asap. I'm so worried for her. That police conference was so weird! I don't think I've ever seen one like that. And the mom's cry.... just broke my heart. I have a daughter and I can't even for a minute put myself in her place. This is just so horrible.

 

[verbonica]

To fly with Pegasus you have to be a nurse, paramedic, or pilot. To ride on Medic 5 you have to be an Advanced Life Support pre-hospital provider, I.e. paramedic, or an EMT who is EVOC certified to drive.

Dang, I hit the wrong reply button again -- aargh!

Thanks, good info. What people yesterday were referring was the kind of transport for disabled people in the community to/from hospital appointments. I don't know the name of it (just thought it might be one of those that you mentioned).

 

[Jmm124567]

Here's another thought: is it possible that the description and event of the bald, black male WG gave police was accurate, and that he was simply an individual Hannah knew and greeted? All we know is that LE changed their description of the POI, but we don't know *why* (to my knowledge). It seems plausible that Hannah encountered two black men that night - the man WG described to LE; and LM, whom she met later. I'm not convinced that LE changed vital physical characteristics to throw off the POI, nor am I convinced that WG lied in his statement. I am, however, sure that there's more than one black man in Cville.

But JM is walking with her in front of Tuel Jewelers which is 200 feet (1 minute walk) down the street from Sal's. I highly doubt there was another black guy. When it comes to the description I think WG just made a couple honest mistakes and he didn't tell police until days later so his memory probably was not perfect. The general fact though that he said he saw a big black guy meet and walk away with HG was true. He was not lying.

 

[Jmm124567]

I'm honestly so confused. I have no clue if POI is guilty. But he needs to get in and talk to the police asap. I'm sure he's freaking out, weather he hurt her or not. For some reason i'm just so worried about this whole situation. It doesn't exactly add up. I really hope they find her alive! But if not find her body asap. I'm so worried for her. That police conference was so weird! I don't think I've ever seen one like that. And the mom's cry.... just broke my heart. I have a daughter and I can't even for a minute put myself in her place. This is just so horrible.

What did you find weird about the PC? When did the mom cry? Was it in the hallway when they walked out I think I heard a cry.

 

[verbonica]

What does it matter what POI did in a hospital? I don't care if he is the CEO or the janitor. The question is what happened between the Mall and him arriving at his apartment.

You're right!

 

[WhitegateGirl]

Ah, sorry. I thought it was WG who said Hannah appeared to be in "physical distress". It's hard to keep up with which player did/said what since the threads move so fast.

You were not wrong, helpful. In fact, WG based his stalkerish behavior caught on camera that night on the fact that he thought she was in distress and he wanted to help her. Anyway, that's what he claims, though his furtive movements give him the distinct air of a predator, IMO. i don't know why anyone is denying this, since that is WG's very own excuse for following her.

 

[iCantRead]

Is it possible that JM spotted a 'fellow tweaker' and offered her more, with the intention of harming her?

Wow, the people in this thread are getting ridiculous. We now have a poster suggesting that HG was a meth user. Your logic and ability to discern truth cannot be that poor. Do you realize how many beat up cars exist? What percentage of these beat up cars belong to meth users? Alcohol explains all of HG's actions better than meth, and better yet, there is evidence of her use that night and in the past. Shocking right?? You can look at the actual evidence and facts, and then determine the truth about an event.

 

[SleepingBark]

I think JM saw a young girl by herself, late at night and already inebriated, and figured he wouldn't have to put in a lot of effort or drinks to try and hook up.

Honestly, watching the videos of Hannah and WG and JM made me think of sharks circling a wounded seal. Call me jaded, but I don't think either of them were following her with honorable intentions in mind. Maybe not to harm her, but they both looked like creepers.

This, i agree with. Whether it was for a hook up or to inflict harm, JM could have just beat WG to the punch.

 

[Claudia]

Is JM a meth dealer?

His car sounds like what is known as a "tweaker-mobile". That's a car that belongs to a crankster, or meth user. They are old, beat up wrecks with tons of visible things wrong with them. Clear plastic replacing the windows, sloppy, 2-tone paint jobs, smashed-in fenders, roofs, etc. The owners are too busy mindlessly tripping on meth to fix their cars.

I also wonder if HG was also on some kind of speed drug like meth. No disrespect meant, but she seems to exhibit all the symptoms: Running around aimlessly, alone in the middle of the night. No real destination, just erratically going from place to place for hours, all by herself.

Is it possible that JM spotted a 'fellow tweaker' and offered her more, with the intention of harming her?

If a meth dealer is driving a ragged out car, he's not very good at his job. Just sayin....

 

[verbonica]

No, you don't.

Idk, there are a lot of people in jail, awaiting trials... and those who are charged, then provide an alibi or other evidence that gets them cleared and released.

 

[gitana1]

Part of me wonders if there is an organised sex ring in the Charlottesville area. When you look at how many young girls have disappeared and either never been found or have wound up dead it makes me think. A couple of girls a year in that part of Virginia disappear, get brought into the sex ring, are used, killed and then dumped. Charlottesville being a college town provides these preditors with girls who are new to the area, who have just left home and are maybe engaging in activities that could leave them vulnerable (I'm in no way victim blaming - girls should be able to drink as much as they want without fear of sexual attack) and there are plenty of local girls to prey on too. It's just a theory. Nothing I can prove but I'm wondering if JM is a part of this kind of thing. Maybe RAT too.

In every case on websleuths of a missing child or female adult, people bring up the organized sex ring theory. In not one case has that turned out to be what happened. Sex rings occur. They are usually "organized" by low-level crooks and pimps whose prey is universally illegal immigrants or refugees from Eastern Europe, Asia or Latin America, and/or runaway street kids. That's it.

Agreed. I'm all for him being a POI, as he was the last known person to be with Hannah. But that is literally all we have on him. He has not been named a suspect, so as of right now LE doesn't even have enough to call him that. I need some hard evidence.

How do you know what they have? It is protocol nowadays in most counties for LE to refrain from ever using the word "suspect", until there is an arrest.

Last person she was seen with... he doesn't say last person she was with. He doesn't know any more than we do, sounds like to me.

Do you really believe that?

I understand the feeling underneath this but actually he does not need to prove his innocence, that's not how our justice system works. Innocent until proven guilty.

Its actually totally how our justice systems works. The court must treat someone charged as innocent. LE, the investigative branch of or justice system, does not, really. Until likely suspects cooperate fully with LE and TALK, it is quite difficult for LE to clear them. That's why dads like Marc Klaas and John Walsh instruct family to cooperate fully and do whatever it takes to clear themselves (prove themselves innocent), to LE, so LE can move on.

 

[Jmm124567]

You were not wrong, helpful. In fact, WG based his stalkerish behavior caught on camera that night on the fact that he thought she was in distress and he wanted to help her. Anyway, that's what he claims, though his furtive movements give him the distinct air of a predator, IMO. i don't know why anyone is denying this, since that is WG's very own excuse for following her.

Nobody's denying his actions are creepy. But the fact is he went to cops and told them a big black guy came up to her and they walked away and he felt she would be fine and he was telling the truth because a black guy did go with her. His description he told police though was a tad off maybe he made an honest mistake possibly since it had been days before he talked to police his memory may have not been as clear. He comes off to me as being like a cop.

I find JM behavior strange also. The fact he circled around on video, followed then went up to her and took her to a bar.

 

[Snoods]

I dont see anything out of character or creepy about WG at all. He strikes me as a timid middle aged male who was concerned for Hannah because he likely has a daughter or other female relatives.

I myself have circled the block when seeing someone with a flat tire only to leave when I've seen that help has arrived.

It says a lot about his character to me that he would contact police on more than one occasion and voluntarily give them his account of events.

In stark contrast to JLM who had at least 24-48 hours to contact an attorney, failed to turn himself in for questioning with his lawyer present, forcing police to obtain a search warrant for his vehicle and home and THEN speeding away from the police office & placing the live of others in danger in the process.

None of that sounds very "Christian" or wholesome to me.

BBM You may be right about WG. He definitely doesn't act like a person with anything to hide. The fact that he came forward immediately speaks volumes.

JM's behavior on the other hand seems in sharp contrast to that of an innocent person. JMO.

Gitana!! If you are still here would you mind answering a question or two? Why would JM not go in with an attorney to speak with LE and tell them what he knows? Would an attorney advise him not to speak or meet with LE at all, even if he tells the attorney he has nothing to hide? Thank you!

 

[katydid23]

<modsnip>


http://www.nbc29.com/story/22071174...artment-speaks-out-on-human-trafficking-in-va

Updated: May 08, 2013 6:59 PM PDT


The Department of Homeland Security wants to spread awareness about a hidden crime. Wednesday, one of its agents spoke out about human trafficking in Virginia.

Special agent John Torres was in Charlottesville participating in an event to honor victims of all crimes. But he was also there to help spread awareness about human trafficking and how common it is in the state.

Torres says the biggest misconception about this crime is that people think it only happens in other countries, when it's actually something happening in their backyard - and Charlottesville is no exception.

 

[distracted]

And similar comments in the vein of "____ is following me! Argh!" or "Some creep from ___ is stalking me!" or "____ has be bugging me for weeks" are turning up on more and more of the twitter accounts in cases here...especially in about the tween to 30's age range.

Look at how many times "stalking me" has been said in the last hour or so - https://twitter.com/search?f=realtime&q="stalking me"&src=typd

It's equally common w/ "being stalked" etc. as well.

It'd be a pain to weed through "following me" or "being followed" since that also is twitter specific jargon, but there's a similar number to those along the lines of "stalking."

It's very, very, very rarely literal, and is extremely common "lingo" in a large population speech wise just as it is on SM.

And in that vein, did you see the tweet from the girl of the description of the guy she thinks is stalking her? Very smart on her part I have to say. But now that you've pointed it out, it's really creepy.

 

[cluciano63]

In every case on websleuths of a missing child or female adult, people bring up the organized sex ring theory. In not one case has that turned out to be what happened. Sex rings occur. They are usually "organized" by low-level crooks and pimps whose prey is universally illegal immigrants or refugees from Eastern Europe, Asia or Latin America, and/or runaway street kids. That's it.



How do you know what they have? It is protocol nowadays in most counties for LE to refrain from ever using the word "suspect", until there is an arrest.



Do you really believe that?



Its actually totally how our justice systems works. The court must treat someone charged as innocent. LE, the investigative branch of or justice system, does not, really. Until likely suspects cooperate fully with LE and TALK, it is quite difficult for LE to clear them. That's why dads like Marc Klaas and John Walsh instruct family to cooperate fully and do whatever it takes to clear themselves (prove themselves innocent), to LE, so LE can move on.

What has always been a bit hard to explain/understand for me is although we hammer on about innocent until proven guilty, we can lock up suspects for a year, sometimes longer while they await trial. Somehow that seems to go against the meaning of the phrase. Anyway...just something I ponder from time to time.

 

[WhitegateGirl]

A lot of judging and belittling of other posters by just one or two who set themselves apart as superior. I think this is a wonderful website, full of people with good minds and kind hearts. Whatever any poster's profession is, no one has standing to ridicule or discredit anyone else who is following TOS here. That's all I got.