VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #8

[eileenhawkeye]

I think it is very telling that LE thinks JM is guilty, yet do not have enough evidence to arrest him, a black man. It is not like getting a conviction is going to be a major challenge. It also cannot be that they are worried about media scrutiny, judging by their PC's.

 

[cluciano63]

And they are trying to find evidence. They aren't vilifying him. They are telling the public where they are at this point in the case. The facts are that he was the last person seen with Hannah and now he's choosing not to help the police. Where does it say that the police need to be happy about someone refusing to talk to them?

Not everyone has to be happy about LE's handling of the case either. I am having very bad feelings about how this could go.

 

[katiewonders]

In my opinion, LE gave out misinformation purposely so as not to tip off JM that they were looking for them. LE can lie in an investigation; it happens.

But seriously

We have an eye witness that so many people thought was creepy and responsible who gave a description of hannah leaving with a big bald goateed guy

What happened to him?
I am very confused
The guy that everyone now believes is responsible can not possibly be confused with the other guy

What have I missed?

 

[aspyingmachine]

also, typically in virginia if you purchase 2 drinks at once especially later at night when the bar is winding down they ask for the id of the other person consuming the drink. like, if you and i were at a table and i went up to the bar and ordered 2 cosmos, they'd want to see another id for the other drink. kinda like you can only order one at a time kinda deal. to prevent underage drinking.

 

[Lava]

And they are trying to find evidence. They aren't vilifying him. They are telling the public where they are at this point in the case. The facts are that he was the last person seen with Hannah and now he's choosing not to help the police. Where does it say that the police need to be happy about someone refusing to talk to them?

Did you not see the press conferences? Even CNN was confused by LE's tone. That aggressiveness is a tool to make the public believe JM is their guy. And yet, LE hasn't disclosed any evidence they have. And what are we all talking about instead of the evidence? Him not talking. They don't need to be happy about it, but they need to respect that it is everyone's right. They need to focus on their case, instead of this fact.

 

[missgulfsouth]

this feels a little like OJ.
and he was guilty. (although not convicted).

Oh no ... we will never hear the end of the debate if you go there.
I agree with you, but man, oh, man ... pass the duct tape. :silenced:

 

[Emaa]

They have evidence that he's currently the last person to be seen with an 18 year old girl who has gone missing. He can stay silent if he wishes, but the facts are that he is currently a person that police would like to talk to about this missing girl. Would you rather the police didn't bother speaking to him? What if he actually is the person who made her disappear? Should the police just look the other way because he won't talk?

They should prove their case against him.

 

[Amster]

So he's not "on the run". He got irritated about being followed today and acted out. Understandable. IMO.

And illegal....his "acting out" could have killed someone. Having a loved one killed by someone "acting out" is NOT understandable.

 

[appleeye]

Off topic. These threads are crazy fast. Poor mods

Never seen a thread so fast... would help a great deal if we stuck to Hannah's case.

 

[bakerlady]

I still think the original POI was mentioned as wearing black pants and a white shirt and having a slight beer belly because that is who was seen following Hannah in the Tuel's video. That person 100% meets that description and that came out when they still thought JLM was a reflection in the window.


I am still lost as to how a team of investigators all missed that for 3 days and we all saw it clear as day.

I think the white guy just said he saw a black guy put his arm around her and that is all he said. I don't think WG gave a description about hair or clothing. Most likely because he did not remember. Eyewitnesses more often than not get descriptions wrong. This has been scientifically proven. Also WG probably did not have any clue that Hannah would be a missing person so it's not like he was taking notes on JLM's description. He probably meshed in his mind along with the hundreds of other people he saw on the mall that night.

JMO but I am sticking to it.

 

[carbuff]

So he's not "on the run". He got irritated about being followed today and acted out. Understandable. IMO.

It totally wouldn't surprise me if LE, um, embellished their account to make it sound worse than it was. The same way they made his slight police record sound worse than it is.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I feel like LE is courting the media, but I think it could backfire on them.

 

[absentia]

This is why victims family members are not in charge of investigations. If JM was my son, I would tell him not to say a word without a lawyer. It is what I was taught, by my family, who is full of LE.

I can tell you, as a victim, never say anything without a lawyer. never write a victim impact statement or make a statement unless you know when, where and how it will be used and by whom. mine was used against me by the defense atty AND by the prosecuting DA when they had photos evidence and multiple confessions by my abuser. I am sort of a new-agey type and not your "typical" victim (dancer, massage therapist/energy worker, etc) they believed would not be seen as reliable by a jury bc I live in a small-town where it's amateur hour.

 

[TravelingBug]

My understanding is that they DID NOT try to speak to him before seizing his car and entering his home with the warrant. I've heard that his first encounter with police was when he was woken-up at 5:45am, being told his car was being taken and his apartment was going to be searched.

That's definitely VERY different than what ABC is reporting timeline and interaction wise.

The article below from ABC is more specific...

That states the vehicle warrant was executed shortly after midnight (and that LE took it and searched it off site)

They arrived back at 10 am once they went and sought the additional warrants for the residence and phone after searching the car and then discovered the 3 had left.

And it almost sounds like LE was surprised - as there's nothing about them having been seen leaving, the time they left, and almost sounding like they didn't realize it until they went back and discovered none of them inside.

[As with a warrant for his phone, surely they'd have gone to where they knew he went (if they knew he/they had left, and also where they went) so they could actually search his physical phone and not only get phone records.]

The first warrant was a search and seizure warrant for a vehicle which was executed shortly after midnight. When police arrived at the apartment building and seized the car, a person connected to the car was in his apartment with two others. Police identified those individuals, but the officer did not feel he had the grounds to detain the individuals, Longo said.

After seizing the car and taking it to an undisclosed location for the full search, investigators developed probable cause and sought approvals for the two other warrants. Police arrived back at the apartment shortly after 10 a.m. and the three individuals were no longer inside, Longo said.

 

[Lava]

I've heard it said that the mall area was a place where mainly locals hang out (although I could be remembering incorrectly) so maybe he assumed she was of age.. We know she is 18, but we have no real way to claim he did. I agree with your stance. You aren't saying he is innocent but we have protections and rights for a reason.

Correct, I have no idea if he is innocent or not. I don't even sway one way more or the other. But I'm not making a decision based on him not talking. Show me some real evidence, make it easy for me, and I will say "LE got their guy!". But until then, I am not going to jump on the bandwagon.

 

[Eileen730]

A detective said they talked to him at the apartment and wanted to talk to him again. We have no clue what he said then. He still has every right not to say one single word. And that is not evidence of a crime.

When they went back that night HE was gone. They have been trying to talk to him ever since.
he shows up today......Hannah went missing on the 13th...... why the long wait?
They never said he was guilty of a crime he was the last person seen with her they wanted to talk to HIM.
IMOO they have been very very patient with this man.

 

[blefuscu]

Did you not see the press conferences? Even CNN was confused by LE's tone. That aggressiveness is a tool to make the public believe JM is their guy. And yet, LE hasn't disclosed any evidence they have. And what are we all talking about instead of the evidence? Him not talking. They don't need to be happy about it, but they need to respect that it is everyone's right. They need to focus on their case, instead of this fact.

And at the moment their case shows that he was the last person with Hannah. And that is why they have checked his car and his house. They are focused on the case, but how do they move forward? They need to speak to him. He is important in the case.

 

[missgulfsouth]

Did you not see the press conferences? Even CNN was confused by LE's tone. That aggressiveness is a tool to make the public believe JM is their guy. And yet, LE hasn't disclosed any evidence they have. And what are we all talking about instead of the evidence? Him not talking. They don't need to be happy about it, but they need to respect that it is everyone's right. They need to focus on their case, instead of this fact.

Not arguing, but he is the man in the video, last person seen with Hannah. The public doesn't need convincing on that point. It's a fact. No different than if a child goes missing, they want to question the last person seen with the child. And everyone is up in arms when it's a child predator.

 

[Hiandmighty]

I am also getting uncomfortable with the focus on JM and not having enough evidence to arrest him. What if he turns out to be innocent, which is possible at this point.

 

[xenon]

Do innocent men commit suicide when the police want to question them as witnesses?
If true, that's weird.

Many years ago a study I read concluded that in general the educated middle class are more likely to turn rage or despair in upon themselves in the form of suicide.
But the poor inflict their rage or despair upon the rest of society.