VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #8

[mom2tee]

I'm not sure this has been touched on yet, but I've been wondering why the guy from the apartment building said that JM did not work or have a job. He seemed certain of this. This puzzles me since we know he held down a regular job at the hospital. Any thoughts?

Maybe he does shift work at odd times and leaves the house dressed in really casual clothes (those shorts!) and changes into a uniform at the hospital.

 

[Amster]

Well, yeah. That makes me feel awful for saying that. I'm seriously very, very sorry about your niece. My heart goes out to you and your family.

I believe you have me mixed up with someone else......

 

[ClueingForLooks]

I wish LE would talk about how they cleared WG, just to show they at least considered him. Jmo

Me too. Very much so. The way WG slid into pace behind HG seemed predatory in appearance. At first I thought it looked like he and LM were working together. It looked like WG texted someone while hiding in that nook.

 

[Concerned Mama]

Everyone says he knew she was missing, but we do not know that for a fact, do we? What if he did not know? What if he does not watch TV. Or if he had heard about some college girl missing, her never heard a name or saw a photo? Maybe Hannah never said she was a UVA student. What if the first he knew about it was the cops on his porch? I would freak out and probably get a lawyer. And then with the (Imo ridiculous) tone of the PC, would not dare talk to LE even if I knew they would find nothing in my car or home.

Probably he knew...but probably is not proof he knew, Imo.

No proof that we know of, but he'd have to live under a rock not to know about the girl who went missing a few blocks from where he works. "Missing person" fliers with her picture are in the windows of local restaurants and businesses.

And once the Sal's and Tuel's surveillance videos were released, you know at least one or two friends would have recognized him and let him know. <modsnip>

 

[Topcat]

Matthews MV violations show a disregard to court system ..the times issued are follow a pattern

 

[missgulfsouth]

You definitely need a lawyer if you are a named POI in a major missing persons case like this. You would be utterly foolish not to get a lawyer as soon as you were named by LE or media in any way.

But I'm wondering if he would have been made a POI at all if he had come forward right away to tell what he knew. All they wanted to do was ask him questions.

 

[GeeButtersnaps]

I read that also.
Cant remember how far back it was tho.
said they saw someone get in the car then out and then back in again.

I believe you're thinking about Fridays PC where the Chief was going thru the nights events and said "someone got out of that car and someone got back in" but he was speaking in general to JM being parked around the mall that night not saying they KNOW someone ELSE got in the car..

 

[birdbox]

In a vacuum, it would ratchet up my suspicions. However, if someone were able to alibi him a few minutes after he says he dropped her off, or if there were video of him driving alone just after that, or if someone saw her alone or with another person after that, then that would obviously also change things.

You make a very good point that leads me to this question. Does he have an alibi for this evening at say, 1:35 or 1:40? Where did he go when they parted ways? Why can't LE ask neighbors or roomates? Did he buy gas, a soda on his debit card? Why can't they get this info without naming him a suspect?

 

[Gigglingtoes]

Looks to me like they are holding him with the wreckless driving charge while they wait for the forensic tests to come back so he doesn't try to take off. Just my opinion.

 

[jamicat]

JM may not have known about the search for Hannah Graham. Yes, it is very possible. Especially if he is indeed innocent of having anythnig more to do with here than having a drink and then going his separate way. It is NOT necessarily the case that had JM come forward immediately, he'd not have become a POI. FIrst of all, it is entirely possible, and IMO probable that he did have something to do with her disappearance. Second of all, whether he is or not, he could find himself in a the situation where he is all the LE have and as the very last person that could be traced being with Hannah, a lot of focus could be put on him. It does happen that people get under suspicion by the police when they are indeed innocent and get the criminal treatment by the police. Not unusual at all. Which is why attorneys will tell their clients not to talk to the police.

So what do you do if you are the last person who saw a missing person, and your attorney tells you not to talk to the police, given the circumstances? Especially someone with JM's profile. It is entirely possible that the dogs that were tracking Hannah circled where JM's car was parked--she could have touched his car walking by it--it could have been unlocked and she got in it. All kinds of explanations as to why she might be connected to the car with nothing to involve JM. But if there is evidence of Hannah in that car, JM is going to be in one hot spot. Statistically, given the scenario, LE is going to come to a very direct line, simple conclusion, that probably is the right one, but...not 100%. Strange curveballs have happened.

Right now no crime has happened. An adult woman disappeared. No sign of any harm to her has shown up (unless some evidence was found in that car). I don't believe that definitive proof of anything was found in that car or apt since JM did go to the police after that evidence was found, and they could not book him, could not force him to say anything. Apparently his attorney was spot on that he didn't have to talk to the police, as they had to let him go, though they clearly believed and believe now that he was culpable for something in Hannah's disappearance.

Since police will likely have JM in custody soon, albet for reckless driving and possibly giving a minor alcohol, we'll see what happens. When the evidence from car and apartment come back from forensics, there will be even more info, though how much LE chooses to share with the public will be determined. We'll see if they have to release JM without charging him with anything. Not sure what they can charge him with, even if there is evidence that Hannah was in his car and in his apartment, unless the evidence is pretty clear that something nefarious happend to her there.

As for the Lauren Spierer case--that' s one that I've followed very closely. The very last person to have seen her alive, as far as LE can track had her in his apartment, admits it freely and yet there isn't a shred of evidence that he did anything to her and that he knows what happened to her. LE couldn't touch him even knowing that she was there. No proof that she did not leave him alive and whatever occurred she left him, he has no knowledge about Still no direct evidence even that she is dead. I don't believe she's alive, but, yes, it is possible. IT has happened that young women who disappear, show up alive in various circumstances, much later. So that JM was the last person with Hannah regardless where or what the story might be, does not mean he killed her or had anything to do with where she is now.

 

[Saccas85]

I read that Longo talked about this at the first press conference.

I believe so as well, however I'm thinking it was him somewhat misspeaking again, he sounded slightly excited and tongue tied.

 

[bakerlady]

JM would not be a person of interest if he had come forward immediately and provided police with all the information he had about Hannah on the night she disappeared - providing that information was legitimate and could be verified.

Good point, but I try to factor 'fear of police' into this equation. Some people absolutely positively do not trust the police (and may have good reasons not to).

 

[Zuri]

Maybe he does shift work at odd times and leaves the house dressed in really casual clothes (those shorts!) and changes into a uniform at the hospital.

He wears scrubs. He changes from street clothes into OR scrubs at the hospital.

 

[Concerned Mama]

I have a thought but that's all it is, nothing to back it up, didn't hear it anywhere, JUST A THOUGHT:
Maybe he works nights. He works at a hospital. His comings and goings would obviously be the opposite of anyone who works a regular dayshift. There's people on here who know him though so that would be a good question I'd think.

But it was stated that he works in the OR, helping to move patients. With the exception of emergency procedures, most surgeries are scheduled early morning and early afternoon.

 

[cluciano63]

But I'm wondering if he would have been made a POI at all if he had come forward right away to tell what he knew. All they wanted to do was ask him questions.

He would still be the last known person to be seen with her.

 

[birdbox]

You know, it is really too bad for LM that he did not stop off at a Shell station and fill up on gas on his way home when he and HG parted ways at 1:25 or 1:30 and get on video camera all alone. Too bad he didn't stop in to buy a soda or swing by another bar all alone that night. Too bad a neighbor was not coming home when he was and could vouch for him. Too bad he wasn't on the phone with his girlfriend after parting ways with HG. He must be the most unlucky guy in the world.

 

[Lava]

You make a very good point that leads me to this question. Does he have an alibi for this evening at say, 1:35 or 1:40? Where did he go when they parted ways? Why can't LE ask neighbors or roomates? Did he buy gas, a soda on his debit card? Why can't they get this info without naming him a suspect?

I don't believe they need to name him a suspect to get any info. They can talk to anyone he knows without naming him a suspect. If they feel they have probable cause to get his bank records, they can ask for a warrant. They just need more evidence, and I don't know if they have that yet.

 

[clearskies1]

LE wasn't expecting him to take off from the police station I don't imagine. :waitasec:

And they can't have air support overhead a POI 24/7.

They can't / don't even do that for things like a known armed - and crazy - cop killer who is on the 10 Most Wanted list such as the guy they've surrounded in PA at the moment or when Dorner was on the run in CA.

At this point, CM isn't even named a suspect, they have not given any indication they think he is an armed madman just wanting to kill people. They aren't even 100% sure he's even done anything in this case. Even ignoring all the logistical issues and restrictions that would make 24/7 air support even over a perp (let alone only a POI) prohibitive, the cost would be astronomical!

But in terms of this instance in this case, it doesn't even seem completely clear if LE knew he was even coming to the police station, let alone thinking he would suddenly take off (from the station - or then when units were behind him).

If they didn't have air support up at that moment there would be the lag time of getting them up (meaning preflight checks and all they need to do before launching) once they realized he was taking off, and that just can't always happen quickly enough depending on what a potential POI or suspect or something does, as much as it'd be great if they could! And that's assuming they had a copter available and crew with flight time available, since there are restrictions on both of those also.

Even if they had air support up when it happened, depending on where that was in relation to where JM took off, it still could have been too late if LE had already felt they needed to call it off and had lost sight of him.

Since it seems unlikely it was his noticeable orange car (since we've not heard that's been returned) and don't know what vehicle he and the other person were in, something far less distinct is harder to pick out if there's a lag time for air support getting on scene in relation to the last known location of the vehicle. It'd also be much easier to 'get lost' in other traffic if the car was nondestinct. And unless they had (and were using FLIR - I'm not sure if they have/use that) picking up heat to at least tell which cars had been running longer (or more recently if parked or stopped somewhere) that could also add to the challenges.

Knowing how LE air support works in an even larger city with substantial, scheduled, as well as multiple agency air support (and of course emergent air support) and how things work (plus the federal resources), I can't knock Charlottesville in this particular instance on this point.

I understand the cost/logistics issue, but it's clear from the press conferences that the Chief thinks that JM can lead them to HG. I also think there was a substantial liklihood that JM would flee -- especially since he immediately left his aptmt when the car search warrant was executed. Under these circumstances I would think the county/state would pay for aerial surveillance. There are recent reported cases of helicopter tracking of suspects in CA, TX, FL and NJ. Granted, JM is only a POI, but given the exigent circumstances and the urgency expressed by the Chief, I think helicopter tracking should have been done. I know others may disagree. JMO.

 

[Topcat]

No proof that we know of, but he'd have to live under a rock not to know about the girl who went missing a few blocks from where he works. "Missing person" fliers with her picture are in the windows of local restaurants and businesses.

And once the Sal's and Tuel's surveillance videos were released, you know at least one or two friends would have recognized him and let him know. Way back (maybe in thread #6?) a source who was friends with JLM was quoted as saying that yeah, he's always wearing those "dumb white shorts" or something to that effect. I really can't believe that nobody close to JLM recognized him on the videotape or did recognize him but didn't call or text him about it.

his neighbors didn't even know he had a job IIRC..so anything is possible

 

[Concerned Mama]

Just an FYI, there is a poster here who knows JM. He coached her sons team. She was here, reading this case, watching the video and did not recognize him.

With respect, I remember that post, but he/she does not know JLM. She just knows he's an assistant coach of her son's team, and her son couldn't even remember if JLM had been at practice last Saturday. She's an acquaintance, not somebody close to him.