VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #8
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OK Michael James MacDougal, now 19, missing from Stilwell since 10 December 2020- Latest: feels_close_to_home
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MD MD - Baltimore, BlkFem, 30-39, UP1354, vacant building, skeletal. October 2006.- Latest: ChatteringBirds
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GeeButtersnaps
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I think it's very important we try to stay objective and remember the most important thing is finding Hannah..that's all that matters right now..the rest can be worked out later..I keep getting the feeling there are some here that are on one side of the fence or the other whether they believe JM is responsible for her disappearance or not and they will either defend him every chance they get or condemn him...let's not forget what's really important..
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... sure, and just like all the other video surveillance footage, four or five blocks later she would appear in front of a gas station, a bank, or some other place of business that had cameras. She was still more than a mile from home when she was last seen.
cluciano63
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Maybe he was fleeing whatever media was at police station...not police. If he was fleeing police, that does not even make sense, since apparently he does have a lawyer if they are working on him coming in. I don't know. I just think labs need to work round the clock in a case like this. If JM is the perp, he is not going to help LE find Hannah. They need evidence now.
. We have absolutely no idea what LE knows regarding his whereabouts after that time.You know, it is really too bad for LM that he did not stop off at a Shell station and fill up on gas on his way home when he and HG parted ways at 1:25 or 1:30 and get on video camera all alone. Too bad he didn't stop in to buy a soda or swing by another bar all alone that night. Too bad a neighbor was not coming home when he was and could vouch for him. Too bad he wasn't on the phone with his girlfriend after parting ways with HG. He must be the most unlucky guy in the world.
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Is it possible that longo wanted the REAL perp to know that JM left town and that they are putting pressure on him ? Maybe they are hoping that someone will go after jm? Way too far fetched probably.
Yes, I agree. I stated it earlier in another post and people acted like I was crazy. My thought was that police described him with a shaved head to deter him from shaving his head because they knew they had to find a guy with dreads.
sherbetjello
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They can ask for people to come in and speak with them, but anything you say (without a lawyer) can be used against you.
Even if they arrest you, you still do not have to talk. You don't have to talk to police for any reason, really.
Ragamuffin
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*Nothing to do with the POI*
Has it been asked and answered if the housing/frats/surrounding areas in Hannah's *general* housing area have cameras?I know we don't have her specific address, but we have an idea. I'm *assuming* based on my own experience that there are cameras on University property (and again, I'm *assuming* frat houses are university property?) so LE would have access and know Hannah did or did not return?
Trying to go back to the beginning and the party/lost text here. Can we definitively say she never made it back to her *home* area?
Has it been asked and answered if the housing/frats/surrounding areas in Hannah's *general* housing area have cameras?I know we don't have her specific address, but we have an idea. I'm *assuming* based on my own experience that there are cameras on University property (and again, I'm *assuming* frat houses are university property?) so LE would have access and know Hannah did or did not return?
Trying to go back to the beginning and the party/lost text here. Can we definitively say she never made it back to her *home* area?
Lava
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Very true, we don't know because he won't talk to the police. Like I said, he is one unlucky dude.
Well, we may not even know if he did talk to police. LE may know even without him talking to them.
bluehydrangea
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Whew! This has all moved so quickly the last couple of days! I've been following along as best I can, but not posting over the weekend, so here are my thoughts on this case ATM:
- I think we're all prone to over-thinking this case because there are a lot of components, a lot of footage, and a lot of confusing behavior by HG. We may never know why she was seen running around town so purposefully, but yet aimlessly for example
- I don't think that LE is purposely naming JM as a false POI to throw off the real POI. I think that they really do have some kind of evidence that places HG in his car...yet he claims she was not in his car, so they are fairly certain that he's lying. My best guess is something like hair, or another substance that if, proven to be hers, places her in the car
- I think they need to come up with some eyewitnesses that saw her in the car so that they can confront JM with that, and possibly get him talking. If they catch him in a lie, he might start trying to defend himself and perhaps it would all come out from there
- To me, it's highly improbable that the police would be so open and emotional about this if they had nothing on JM other than the surveillance tape. That would be uncommonly shoddy police work. I think they have enough on him to be confident in his involvement, but not prove a crime was committed. There were times with the Erin Corwin case that it seemed like LE was either holding the cards very close to their chests, or they actually knew next to nothing. It seemed like they would never find her body, and would never arrest anyone for it, and BAM - they did.
I know many have said that as a young black man, he has a target on his back and it's totally understandable that he would clam up and lawyer up. While I'm not trying to ignite that debate again, I think it's incredibly suspicious that he not only did not come forward to clear his name, but also is not being the least bit helpful in trying to help find this young lady whom he clearly took an interest in at one point. If he truly did part ways with her -- why not tell the police, "Hey, this was her demeanor, this is what she talked about, she told me she was going _______, then she walked in X direction" -- that would be 8,000 times more compelling to his argument of innocence than total silence. MOO.
- I think we're all prone to over-thinking this case because there are a lot of components, a lot of footage, and a lot of confusing behavior by HG. We may never know why she was seen running around town so purposefully, but yet aimlessly for example
- I don't think that LE is purposely naming JM as a false POI to throw off the real POI. I think that they really do have some kind of evidence that places HG in his car...yet he claims she was not in his car, so they are fairly certain that he's lying. My best guess is something like hair, or another substance that if, proven to be hers, places her in the car
- I think they need to come up with some eyewitnesses that saw her in the car so that they can confront JM with that, and possibly get him talking. If they catch him in a lie, he might start trying to defend himself and perhaps it would all come out from there
- To me, it's highly improbable that the police would be so open and emotional about this if they had nothing on JM other than the surveillance tape. That would be uncommonly shoddy police work. I think they have enough on him to be confident in his involvement, but not prove a crime was committed. There were times with the Erin Corwin case that it seemed like LE was either holding the cards very close to their chests, or they actually knew next to nothing. It seemed like they would never find her body, and would never arrest anyone for it, and BAM - they did.
I know many have said that as a young black man, he has a target on his back and it's totally understandable that he would clam up and lawyer up. While I'm not trying to ignite that debate again, I think it's incredibly suspicious that he not only did not come forward to clear his name, but also is not being the least bit helpful in trying to help find this young lady whom he clearly took an interest in at one point. If he truly did part ways with her -- why not tell the police, "Hey, this was her demeanor, this is what she talked about, she told me she was going _______, then she walked in X direction" -- that would be 8,000 times more compelling to his argument of innocence than total silence. MOO.
A few thoughts...
Do they have any info on LJ's whereabouts prior to being seen in the video walking, did he come from a bar... maybe the same bar he went back to? The video showing HG walking west on Preston towards Mcgradys pub, there is a parking lot for the pub right where she comes into the frame.. but it appears she was already on the sidewalk.. if so do they have gas station footage of her heading west on the way to the pub? Also there is a bar called Three Notch'd which is connected to Mcgradys on the left side of the video where she disappears off frame for a few minutes. There is also a part in that video that shows two men jaywalking across the street watching her walk east from the pub, they both focus on her stop in front of the pub forefront of the patio.. These two guys look suspect to me, in the sense that the video makes them seem distracted by her and don't make their way into the pub.
Do they have any info on LJ's whereabouts prior to being seen in the video walking, did he come from a bar... maybe the same bar he went back to? The video showing HG walking west on Preston towards Mcgradys pub, there is a parking lot for the pub right where she comes into the frame.. but it appears she was already on the sidewalk.. if so do they have gas station footage of her heading west on the way to the pub? Also there is a bar called Three Notch'd which is connected to Mcgradys on the left side of the video where she disappears off frame for a few minutes. There is also a part in that video that shows two men jaywalking across the street watching her walk east from the pub, they both focus on her stop in front of the pub forefront of the patio.. These two guys look suspect to me, in the sense that the video makes them seem distracted by her and don't make their way into the pub.
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I haven't read that in any news articles, or heard it in the press conferences.
missgulfsouth
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Ahhh. You mean camping gear, $10,000, and a bad blonde dye job headed for the border.
Oops. Wrong case.
2Hope4
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UVA is a LARGE teaching hospital. I know many people that have had surgery at night there, as well as morning, or middle of the day. They also take in major trauma patients, so IMO it would be impossible to know LJ's work schedule. I've never worked there, only knew patients there, but it sure seems they had OR staff there any time that surgery was needed. Whether pediatric, trauma, or adult, the operation happened.
Lava
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I believe you can get my point if you looked at the post I quoted. The other person insinuated JM must have known about the case beforehand because someone would have recognized him and told him. We have a poster here who knew him and did not recognize him. My point being, that it isn't a fact that someone MUST have recognized him and told him about being in the video.
missgulfsouth
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I don't know about cameras, but are frats and sororities usually on university property? At my school (a midwestern big ten) they were most definitely not.
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Regarding the reckless driving, that's quite interesting, because another recent case just a few hours to the east, the case of Claudine Jacquier Gifford, ALSO had a POI who LE feels strongly about, who exhibits behavior befitting a POI, and also LE had not released enough information regarding evidence, i.e., maybe they have enough but haven't released it. Meanwhile POI --after knowing he is POI-- gets into altercation at same bar victim went missing from a couple weeks earlier, and also puts himself into a fleeing and eluding situation, and has already earned himself a year and a half jail time just on the vehicular violations, effectively giving LE more time to continue investigating and hopefully find her body. Is reckless driving the new broken taillight?
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