Found Deceased VA - Morgan Dana Harrington, 20, Charlottesville, 17 Oct 2009 - #13

[Calliope]

Got it, thanks.

So here is my question about the people who didn't camp: it's at least 10pm when the race is over, later if they stay a bit to socialize.

Directions from Panorama to Anchorage

That's a bit over 16 miles. Keep in mind the people at Panorama were in a "six hour endurance race" so not only are they going to be kinda tired due to the racing, but they're also going to be tired because it's late at night, and they get to ride their bikes when it's dark. Drivers are bad enough at seeing bicyclists when it's light outside.

I don't think there could have been many people who were biking in that direction. Of course, the next day would have been an entirely different matter, so if the police think the body wasn't there until the next day, sure.

I think your theory that they are looking for people who practice in that area (which they apparently do) is dead on.

Makes me wonder what the specific tip was that led them to ask for help from cyclists.

Those leaving the race that night could have driven home, of course. The problem is the time line. Morgan was last seen on the bridge (and I'm not entirely convinced that was her) a little after 9. If she was taken to the farm and killed near or at the spot she was found, I suppose it's possible anyone leaving that race could have seen something. Or, like you say, they may have seen something out of the ordinary the next morning.

 

[Calliope]

True - but if they were the basketball players, Parsons wouldn't need to ask the police to identify them. Their faces are on the website, and the local paper does cover the basketball team. She works for the paper, presumably reads it, and would have seen their photos by now, if not before the sighting.

Sorry... my brain is fuzzy. Did she ID them as basketball players? (I think I lost my way here)

 

[PaulR]

By all reports she was psyched to see the concert. (recall her behaviour and statements made to the people who parked next to Morgan & friends) But I've been wondering why. Was she really that into Metallica? If so, why wander out just prior to them taking the stage? Recall also (from what was posted on this thread) that she posted her plans to attend the concert, in detail.

IIRC the announcer said that there would be a break and encouraged people to take one. She may have gone outside to get fresh air, or gotten lost. I'd like to know how it happened, it could be important.

Did those details include what she'd be wearing? Who she'd be with? What they'd be driving? Where they'd be seated? Is it possible she had already planned to hook up with someone in Charlottesville? Perhaps with someone else who was attending (or said they were attending) the concert? Maybe her wanderings inside and then to exit the arena weren't random. Maybe she was looking for someone in particular. When they weren't inside, she looked outside and found herself not able to re-enter. That could explain the level of anger witnessed by others, and that anger combined with the alcohol could have led to her hitchhiking (if that is what she was doing). And I'm not saying that person was necessarily the one who killed her. She may simply have been 'stood up'.

Interesting, but I would think she'd tell her best friend if someone was going to be there with them. I mean, either he would have tickets next to her, or she'd have to go to wherever he was sitting and leave her friends.

One thing that I keep wondering about - her behavior with the man outside the arena, saying "let's go" and then kicking him. That's weird. Maybe she was drunk, but part of me thinks she was on something stronger than alcohol. Of course the friends would keep their mouths SHUT about it. But perhaps she was trying to get "hooked up"? Puuuure guessing :cow:

Aside from all that, I still wonder if the tone of the last conversation with the friends inside the arena wasn't so much, "I'll be fine, I'll find a way home." but rather, "FINE! I'll find a way home!"

We know she was upset, but the question is, upset at just being in a bad spot or upset at her friends too? Maybe she expected at least one of them to go outside so she wouldn't be entirely alone?

She also could have said something more in the tone of "I'll be fine (don't you worry about me being outside in the cold around a bunch of strangers...)"

 

[PaulR]

Sorry... my brain is fuzzy. Did she ID them as basketball players? (I think I lost my way here)

No she never did. She says she'd recognize the faces but presumably hasn't seen them before or since.

 

[PaulR]

Makes me wonder what the specific tip was that led them to ask for help from cyclists.

Those leaving the race that night could have driven home, of course. The problem is the time line. Morgan was last seen on the bridge (and I'm not entirely convinced that was her) a little after 9. If she was taken to the farm and killed near or at the spot she was found, I suppose it's possible anyone leaving that race could have seen something. Or, like you say, they may have seen something out of the ordinary the next morning.

Perhaps there were bike tracks in the general area of the body - not right next to it, of course, but close enough to make the police wonder. They think that the killer was familiar enough with the area to feel comfortable there, and if there was a bike trail nearby, they may suspect someone who uses that trail. Like maybe someone who was supposed to be at the race but didn't make it...?

Morgan on the bridge is an interesting point - if it wasn't her, then I think she was kidnapped from the parking lot where the purse was found. A parking lot is a logical place to look for a ride, and someone could have told her "I'm heading your way, what a coincidence."

 

[Calliope]

IIRC the announcer said that there would be a break and encouraged people to take one. She may have gone outside to get fresh air, or gotten lost. I'd like to know how it happened, it could be important.

I saw where someone attended an event at the arena after Morgan went missing and claimed that was announced; I don't recall that being the case at the Metallica concert. But like i said...brain is fuzzy today.

Interesting, but I would think she'd tell her best friend if someone was going to be there with them. I mean, either he would have tickets next to her, or she'd have to go to wherever he was sitting and leave her friends.

Could explain the *kiss* goodbye.

One thing that I keep wondering about - her behavior with the man outside the arena, saying "let's go" and then kicking him. That's weird. Maybe she was drunk, but part of me thinks she was on something stronger than alcohol. Of course the friends would keep their mouths SHUT about it. But perhaps she was trying to get "hooked up"? Puuuure guessing :cow:

I remain convinced that the friends aren't telling all, or at the very least, aren't giving the full context of what was said and what happened.

We know she was upset, but the question is, upset at just being in a bad spot or upset at her friends too? Maybe she expected at least one of them to go outside so she wouldn't be entirely alone?

She also could have said something more in the tone of "I'll be fine (don't you worry about me being outside in the cold around a bunch of strangers...)"

If she was (as from all accounts) so psyched to go to this concert, and found herself stranded outside just before Metallica hit the stage, I can't see how she'd NOT be pissed at her friends for staying put, unless she had someone else to turn to/somewhere else to go.

 

[carbuff]

By all reports she was psyched to see the concert. (recall her behaviour and statements made to the people who parked next to Morgan & friends) But I've been wondering why. Was she really that into Metallica? If so, why wander out just prior to them taking the stage? Recall also (from what was posted on this thread) that she posted her plans to attend the concert, in detail.

Did those details include what she'd be wearing? Who she'd be with? What they'd be driving? Where they'd be seated? Is it possible she had already planned to hook up with someone in Charlottesville? Perhaps with someone else who was attending (or said they were attending) the concert? Maybe her wanderings inside and then to exit the arena weren't random. Maybe she was looking for someone in particular. When they weren't inside, she looked outside and found herself not able to re-enter. That could explain the level of anger witnessed by others, and that anger combined with the alcohol could have led to her hitchhiking (if that is what she was doing). And I'm not saying that person was necessarily the one who killed her. She may simply have been 'stood up'.

Aside from all that, I still wonder if the tone of the last conversation with the friends inside the arena wasn't so much, "I'll be fine, I'll find a way home." but rather, "FINE! I'll find a way home!"

I agree about the tone of that last message, and her behavior is certainly consistent with that of a girl who has been stood up.

 

[Calliope]

Perhaps there were bike tracks in the general area of the body - not right next to it, of course, but close enough to make the police wonder. They think that the killer was familiar enough with the area to feel comfortable there, and if there was a bike trail nearby, they may suspect someone who uses that trail. Like maybe someone who was supposed to be at the race but didn't make it...?

Morgan on the bridge is an interesting point - if it wasn't her, then I think she was kidnapped from the parking lot where the purse was found. A parking lot is a logical place to look for a ride, and someone could have told her "I'm heading your way, what a coincidence."

I've never really wrapped my head around the back-tracking to dump her purse in the lot. Unless she was killed in or near the lot or for some reason the killer had to return to the arena, but that would have been long after the concert ended.

 

[koolmum]

Perhaps there were bike tracks in the general area of the body - not right next to it, of course, but close enough to make the police wonder. They think that the killer was familiar enough with the area to feel comfortable there, and if there was a bike trail nearby, they may suspect someone who uses that trail. Like maybe someone who was supposed to be at the race but didn't make it...?

Morgan on the bridge is an interesting point - if it wasn't her, then I think she was kidnapped from the parking lot where the purse was found. A parking lot is a logical place to look for a ride, and someone could have told her "I'm heading your way, what a coincidence."[/QUOTE]

BBM

That's what I was thinking as well. Maybe it was her on the bridge hitch hiking but, no one stopped for her (would you stop on a narrow bridge to pick some one up?) so, walked back to the parking lot and was taken from where her purse was found.
Perhaps there was a struggle and her purse was kicked under a vehicle that was one of the last to leave and that's why it wasn't found until the next morning. MOO

 

[PaulR]

I remain convinced that the friends aren't telling all, or at the very least, aren't giving the full context of what was said and what happened.

Yeah, they are probably hiding something. How important it is, I'm not sure. For instance, if MH was very angry at them on the phone, they could just lie and say "oh yeah, she said she'd find a way home and everything would be OK :angel:"

She was stood up, all right. Stood up by her friends.

If she was (as from all accounts) so psyched to go to this concert, and found herself stranded outside just before Metallica hit the stage, I can't see how she'd NOT be pissed at her friends for staying put, unless she had someone else to turn to/somewhere else to go.

If she had someone else to turn to, I'd think she would call them (unless they were already there at the arena - like outside.) But then the witnesses would place them together. Or she'd call him, but the phone records don't indicate that.

A plan of action - I think that is why she went to the parking lot. If you look at the map, heading from the Arena to that particular lot actually goes through a pretty big parking lot near University Hall. The overflow lot is basically the last stop unless you are going to go over Copeley Bridge.

I'm curious to know how well-lit it is.

 

[PaulR]

BBM

That's what I was thinking as well. Maybe it was her on the bridge hitch hiking but, no one stopped for her (would you stop on a narrow bridge to pick some one up?) so, walked back to the parking lot and was taken from where her purse was found.
Perhaps there was a struggle and her purse was kicked under a vehicle that was one of the last to leave and that's why it wasn't found until the next morning. MOO

That makes sense. From the bridge she could see the lot, maybe she started to see more activity there (people walking there, cars pulling out) and went back.

 

[MBLover]

If she was hh'ing...and on the bridge...and someone stopped for her...and she wanted a ride...why would she not just hop in the car at that point? It would take all of a few seconds and it's not like that is going to hold up traffic.

Why would the person have to drive to another area for her to walk to - which takes even longer and more of a chance of being seen - especially if there was an ulterior motive?

Somehow my brain is not wrapping around that concept - of you walk back over there and I'll drive over and pick you up...

 

[Calliope]

Yeah, they are probably hiding something. How important it is, I'm not sure. For instance, if MH was very angry at them on the phone, they could just lie and say "oh yeah, she said she'd find a way home and everything would be OK :angel:"

She was stood up, all right. Stood up by her friends.



If she had someone else to turn to, I'd think she would call them (unless they were already there at the arena - like outside.) But then the witnesses would place them together. Or she'd call him, but the phone records don't indicate that.

A plan of action - I think that is why she went to the parking lot. If you look at the map, heading from the Arena to that particular lot actually goes through a pretty big parking lot near University Hall. The overflow lot is basically the last stop unless you are going to go over Copeley Bridge.

I'm curious to know how well-lit it is.

Someone posted photos of the arena and lots, and IIRC included some taken at night. It may have been here but I think it was on the find morgan forum. I'll hunt around and see if I can locate them.

 

[Calliope]

If she was hh'ing...and on the bridge...and someone stopped for her...and she wanted a ride...why would she not just hop in the car at that point? It would take all of a few seconds and it's not like that is going to hold up traffic.

Why would the person have to drive to another area for her to walk to - which takes even longer and more of a chance of being seen - especially if there was an ulterior motive?

Somehow my brain is not wrapping around that concept - of you walk back over there and I'll drive over and pick you up...

Or... no one stopped so she headed back to the lot.

Nothing makes sense, really.

 

[PaulR]

Or... no one stopped so she headed back to the lot.

Nothing makes sense, really.

No, it doesn't.

I hope the police either release more information or the DNA results reveal something they can use.

 

[Angel Who Cares]

Resolution to honor Morgan Harrington’s life in General Assembly
Published: March 5, 2010
Updated: March 5, 2010
<snipped>
A resolution to celebrate the life of Morgan Harrington is before the General Assembly.

Submitted on February 26th, and introduced today, House Joint Resolution #357 was introduced by Salem Delegate, and House Majority Leader, Morgan Griffith (R) in the House of Delegates.

In an e-mail, Dr. Dan Harrington, Morgan’s father, said he and his wife Gil, “are most of appreciative of Delegate Griffith’s public acknowledgment honoring our daughter’s life. It is through such gracious gestures that Morgan’s life continues to have meaning.“

Read The Full Text Of The Bill:
http://www.richmondsunlight.com/bill/2010/hj357/fulltext/

Article:
http://www2.wsls.com/sls/news/state...embly_to_honor_morgan_harringtons_life/85543/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
General Assembly Passes Harrington Resolution
Posted: Mar 05, 2010 3:45 PM EST
Updated: Mar 05, 2010 3:55 PM EST
<snipped>
Also at the General Assembly Friday, the House of Delegates passed a resolution honoring Morgan Harrington.

The Virginia Tech student was found murdered in Albemarle County after disappearing from a concert in Charlottesville.

Friday the House passed a memorial resolution, measures commonly adopted by lawmakers in Richmond to remember people who have died.

The resolution says Harrington was "full of promise for the future."

Video: General Assembly Passes Harrington Resolution
http://www.nbc29.com/global/Category.asp?C=175568&clipId=4598645&autostart=true

Article:
http://www.nbc29.com/Global/story.asp?S=12091874
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
General Assembly notebook: State lawmakers honor Harrington with resolution
Saturday, March 06, 2010
<snipped>
The House of Delegates approved a memorial resolution Friday honoring the memory of Morgan Harrington, the Roanoke County resident and Virginia Tech student whose remains were found Jan. 26, more than three months after she vanished from a concert in Charlottesville.

House Joint Resolution 357 pays tribute to "the lovely and spirited daughter of Dr. Dan Harrington and Gil Harrington and the adored sister of her older brother, Alex Harrington." It lauds Morgan Harrington as a "champion of children's rights" and adds that "she will be fondly remembered for her spontaneous displays of affection and big hugs, her love of life and adventure, and her sparkling blue eyes and brilliant smile that would light up a room."

Del. Morgan Griffith, R-Salem, was the chief sponsor of the resolution. The entire General Assembly signed on as co-sponsors.

Article:
http://www.roanoke.com/politics/wb/238962

:angel:

 

[Calliope]

Oh good grief. I was looking at find morgan... and they were here all the time.

http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f200/tracynb/For Morgan/

http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f200/tracynb/Night at UVA/

 

[PaulR]

Oh good grief. I was looking at find morgan... and they were here all the time.

http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f200/tracynb/For Morgan/

http://s47.photobucket.com/albums/f200/tracynb/Night at UVA/

... and you can see why I wouldn't have gone over there at night.

The more I think about it, the more I realize that not only did MH probably tell her friends off, but she didn't even want to get a ride back with them.

That's what (more than anything) her friends are not telling anyone about. IMHO.

(Do you think they could have suggested that she try to find a ride?)

 

[rickh]

If she was hh'ing...and on the bridge...and someone stopped for her...and she wanted a ride...why would she not just hop in the car at that point? It would take all of a few seconds and it's not like that is going to hold up traffic.

Why would the person have to drive to another area for her to walk to - which takes even longer and more of a chance of being seen - especially if there was an ulterior motive?

Somehow my brain is not wrapping around that concept - of you walk back over there and I'll drive over and pick you up...

my thoughts here are if she was on the side of the bridge heading away from the arena and was picked up by someone coming in they would probably have turned around in the rv lot.as to go back the way they came.jmo

 

[Walker]

Oh, I wouldn't describe the boots. One could say they were distinctive, and not say how.

I don't believe the woman who allegedly saw MH on the lawn said that the boots were in any way distinctive.

Not in the article, but we don't know every detail of her testimony. LE may have asked The Hook not to include some detail. Also, "distinctive" is also relative; an individual might be more used to seeing some particular style.

Possibly... but wouldn't she have to bring the outfit with her?

In the backpack.

It is nice, and I'm not sure why she'd be wearing it to a concert.

Yes. In the photos, the crowd was more jeans & hoodies, and not glamorously dressed.

By? I haven't read that, maybe I missed it.

People have been saying all along that the companions knew something.

She made a big spat about trying to get back in. Even if she wasn't into the concert, she clearly wanted to be with her friends. Otherwise she wouldn't have made such a big deal about not being allowed back into the Arena.

MH may have thought that someone had stood her up.

Sorry, I meant "home" in the sense of not staying in C'ville. I don't see how she could have made plans to see someone and still travel with her friends.

MH may have planned to ditch her companions, and spend the night with someone more interesting.



Quote:

She didn't meet him before the concert or we would have heard. She obviously couldn't meet him during the concert, unless he also left, but we'd have records of a cell phone call to or from her phone to the person she was going to meet, to say that she was outside.

Not necessarily.

OK, so what's an alternate way of it happening?

He didn't use a cell phone.

Sure. Police talk to you, are convinced you had nothing to do with it.

One can only be cleared with reference to specific charges.

So here is what the Hook article says:


In context, the "witness" is saying that she was tall. Then when describing the men with her, she says "two shorter, one taller"; maybe she meant in a relative sense, but it looks to me like she is comparing the heights of the guys to MH's height, not each others.

According to the UVa site, the heights of the players were:

• 6'9"
• 6'0"
• 6'3"
• 6'0"

I would think that if the 6'9" player was in the group, that would make a strong impression upon the lawn "witness." But none of the 6'0" players are going to appear shorter than MH, even if she was in heels.

I'm thinking that if this woman did appear taller than the guys, this woman was indeed tall (5'10" or something) and thus not MH.

We have three groups:

1. the four White men dressed in black who walked from the arena to the RV Lot with MH as described by credible witness;

2. the BB players who had "limited interaction" with her, which is confirmed by LE;

3. the three men, one taller & two shorter, seen by Parson at about 3am. [BTW: JMO the writer meant "shorter" in a relative sense, not necessarily shorter than MH].


The question was whether group 1 & group 2 could possibly have been the same group. (Remember this matter is more about the witnesses' impressions, than any "official" membership in any distinct group).

If we accept that the credible witness is reasonably correct, then MH must have walked from the arena to the RV lot with group 1, but then separated from group 1, and approached group 2.

Generally, the impression given in the media is that MH was by herself when she approached the BB players. Now how did that happen? Group 1 just split & no one offered her a ride or anything? Just left her in the RV lot?

OTOH perhaps someone in group 1 knew members of group 2, and members of both groups were interacting with each other. The only problem here is that group 2 could have named or somehow identified the members of group 1. Of course, maybe they did, but that info has been kept quiet.

Parson said nothing about BB players in the media articles.

Relevant link:
http://www.readthehook.com/blog/ind...fore-hitching-morgan-harrington-caused-worry/