Found Deceased VA - Morgan Dana Harrington, 20, Charlottesville, 17 Oct 2009 - #15

[soothsayer]

You know I believe your right about her ticket. Unless the friends had it and LE have not disclosed that info. Then where does that story about it being in "pieces" in the bottom of her purse come in. Wouldn't they have found it when they found her purse.......and if it was in pieces, so what, the ticket taker could have asked to see the pieces as proof, but she supposedly stopped her from retrieving the ripped ticket. Is that story even correct?

Her ticket and its whereabouts are really irrelevant. It could have been in pieces in the bottom of her purse (ripped up in anger, or falling apart after falling on the wet ground), it could have been intact in an envelope in her pocket, laminated and worn around her neck, stapled to her forehead -- it wouldn't have mattered. You can't get back in with a ticket that has already been scanned for entry, as hers had been.

The mystery over where her ticket is now seems overblown to me. If you've ever visited a venue AFTER an event has finished, you'll know how much litter there is on the ground. Programs, bracelets (worn by those old enough to drink, and now torn off and discarded), and yes, you will find lots and lots of tickets dropped by those who were either content with their memories, or too unsentimental or too tipsy or tired to hold onto a memento. Since her purse was found a bit spilled out on the ground, perhaps the ticket had fallen out of it and the finder didn't think to scoop it up because it looked like trash (ripped up or just wet with rain and dew), or perhaps it blew away. Either way, the grounds crew that descended on the area the next day with their rubber gloves and trash bags more than likely picked it up with the rest of the detritus of the 14,000 other people who were at the show, and tossed it. No mystery there.

 

[soothsayer]

Morgan then starts walking away from JPJA, ends up on the Copeley Road bridge, sees a car either (completely coincidentally) identical in make and model, or extremely similar to her car coming towards her. Thinking it is her friends coming to rescue her, she willing hops in the car, not realizing till it's too late she has gotten into a car with a complete stranger.

That would explain how she was seen "hitch-hiking", something her parents have said was totally uncharacteristic for her; she was mock hitch-hiking at what she thought was her friends.

Here's the problem with that theory, as I see it. It would depend upon her playfully sticking out her thumb only when she spied a car that looked like hers. Yet the witnesses who passed her as she was thumbing a ride were not likely all in the same make and model as her 3 year old Honda, or were not likely to happen upon her as a Honda that looked like hers was approaching. Yet they saw her hitch hiking on that bridge as they drove past her. So she must have been hitch hiking.

I know people don't want her to have been hitch hiking, and that it's very, very hard for people to accept that she was, but I'm not sure why. Is it because we all know it's dangerous to hitch hike, and we don't want her to do anything dangerous because she might get killed? She DID get killed. Maybe people feel they would be blaming the victim if they acknowledged that she took a risk.

 

[soothsayer]

BBM. But, as far as I know, Morgan's ticket has never been found. If she voluntarily left the arena, and either left her ticket inside, or lost it while outside, what responsibility would the venue have to provide a "safe place" in that circumstance.

And could you imagine the insurance a venue would have to pay to maintain such a safe place? Especially if it was used for people under the influence of drugs or alcohol?

Yes, that would be QUITE a liability for the venue. And I'm sure they don't want to turn over those types of patrons (drunk or drugged) to the police -- they'd get a horrible reputation for doing that, as it would put a big damper on the fun of going to a show.

Plus, I'm not sure how someone could prove they 'lost' a ticket. Even friends who vouch for you could be lying just to sneak you in.

I wonder when the Harringtons will serve RMC with the civil suit. According to the court website, there's only been that initial filing, and nothing else so far.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

:razz:

Her ticket and its whereabouts are really irrelevant. It could have been in pieces in the bottom of her purse (ripped up in anger, or falling apart after falling on the wet ground), it could have been intact in an envelope in her pocket, laminated and worn around her neck, stapled to her forehead -- it wouldn't have mattered. You can't get back in with a ticket that has already been scanned for entry, as hers had been.

The mystery over where her ticket is now seems overblown to me. If you've ever visited a venue AFTER an event has finished, you'll know how much litter there is on the ground. Programs, bracelets (worn by those old enough to drink, and now torn off and discarded), and yes, you will find lots and lots of tickets dropped by those who were either content with their memories, or too unsentimental or too tipsy or tired to hold onto a memento. Since her purse was found a bit spilled out on the ground, perhaps the ticket had fallen out of it and the finder didn't think to scoop it up because it looked like trash (ripped up or just wet with rain and dew), or perhaps it blew away. Either way, the grounds crew that descended on the area the next day with their rubber gloves and trash bags more than likely picked it up with the rest of the detritus of the 14,000 other people who were at the show, and tossed it. No mystery there.

OK,OK:razz: WOW you really did a lot of thinking about this ticket,huh?:sheesh: Just wondered why it was even mentioned that her ticket was in pieces....No problem we'll just let that go, K??

 

[davehead21]

BBM. But, as far as I know, Morgan's ticket has never been found. If she voluntarily left the arena, and either left her ticket inside, or lost it while outside, what responsibility would the venue have to provide a "safe place" in that circumstance.

And could you imagine the insurance a venue would have to pay to maintain such a safe place? Especially if it was used for people under the influence of drugs or alcohol?

I completely agree and if you have read all of my posts, you would know that I don't think no reentry rules should change because of a few adults who get too drunk or too drugged to know they should stay inside the venue. For completely selfish and personal reasons, I would just like to see how the push for a law or something of that nature would play out.

 

[davehead21]

Maybe people feel they would be blaming the victim if they acknowledged that she took a risk.

SBM

I have always wondered if this is part of the reason the Harringtons have asked that Morgan's friends be left alone. If people start questioning their actions (ie-- why one of them didn't go to be with her), then they would certainly have to question Morgan's actions.

You are absolutely right, and Morgan's actions and choices were an unfortunate contribution to her own death. Would never deny that. In fact I have often wondered if the reason her friends were off limits, was because of what they Might have to say about Morgan's interpersonal relationships. We really do not now anything about "Morgan" , but as long as LE has all the info they need, there really is no need for that.

BBM

And I have also wondered the same. I said up-thread that I have a friend who sometimes separates herself from the people she's with with when going someplace. She just cannot understand why it's dangerous to go off on her own, especially when she has been drinking. There was an incident this past summer that was awful and scary and I will never go to a big event with her again. We went a concert, Farm Aid of all things....everyone else was so calm, except my friend. She got incredibly drunk and was horribly belligerent (which is a complete 180 from how she normally acts). I had so many people give me a sympathetic smile because I was having to deal with her craziness and I even had a handful of people stop me and tell me to keep a close eye on her because she was acting so crazy. There was no talking to her about her behavior because she would start raising her voice at me, causing a scene. I think we all know that, sometimes, there is just no talking to a person under the influence. Very long story short, she ended up running off from me. I literally took my eyes off of her for 30 seconds and she was gone, no where to be found. Before we had left to go to the venue, we had an argument about her taking her cell phone-- she refused. So, I couldn't even call/text her. Luckily our story turned out a lot different than Morgan's. However, it does make me look at her friends in a new light if this is the way Morgan was behaving, which I think it likely was.

Some people are impossible to deal with when they are drinking/drugging and it can cause major problems in relationships. Morgan was young, she probably partied a lot, so it's very possible that her drinking/drugging did cause issues in her relationships. Again, no judgement from me....I've been there.

 

[soothsayer]

:razz:

OK,OK:razz: WOW you really did a lot of thinking about this ticket,huh?:sheesh: Just wondered why it was even mentioned that her ticket was in pieces....No problem we'll just let that go, K??

I think it was mentioned in the Hook article as part of showing how strangely Morgan was acting that evening.

 

[rossva]

I was not questioning the where abouts of her ticket in regards to re-entering the the venue for the concert. I understand "no re-admittance" means "NO re-admittance".

I only brought it up in response to the post davehead21 made "I would really like to see the Harringtons lobby for some sort of a law that says venues must provide a "safe place" for a person who has a valid ticket'

Her ticket and its whereabouts are really irrelevant. It could have been in pieces in the bottom of her purse (ripped up in anger, or falling apart after falling on the wet ground), it could have been intact in an envelope in her pocket, laminated and worn around her neck, stapled to her forehead -- it wouldn't have mattered. You can't get back in with a ticket that has already been scanned for entry, as hers had been.

The mystery over where her ticket is now seems overblown to me. If you've ever visited a venue AFTER an event has finished, you'll know how much litter there is on the ground. Programs, bracelets (worn by those old enough to drink, and now torn off and discarded), and yes, you will find lots and lots of tickets dropped by those who were either content with their memories, or too unsentimental or too tipsy or tired to hold onto a memento. Since her purse was found a bit spilled out on the ground, perhaps the ticket had fallen out of it and the finder didn't think to scoop it up because it looked like trash (ripped up or just wet with rain and dew), or perhaps it blew away. Either way, the grounds crew that descended on the area the next day with their rubber gloves and trash bags more than likely picked it up with the rest of the detritus of the 14,000 other people who were at the show, and tossed it. No mystery there.

 

[rossva]

But, do we know exactly how many people, and in how many vehicles they were in, that witnessed her hitch-hiking? If it were to say, three people, they could have all been in the same car, and it was the car behind them, or further down the street, that was the look a like car.

I know if I was walking away from my friends, and they were driving my car, I'd pretend to hitch hike as soon as I saw the car. And, at dusk/early evening impaired, and in the misting rain, I might think a lot of different cars looked like mine till way after it was too late.

Here's the problem with that theory, as I see it. It would depend upon her playfully sticking out her thumb only when she spied a car that looked like hers. Yet the witnesses who passed her as she was thumbing a ride were not likely all in the same make and model as her 3 year old Honda, or were not likely to happen upon her as a Honda that looked like hers was approaching. Yet they saw her hitch hiking on that bridge as they drove past her. So she must have been hitch hiking.

I know people don't want her to have been hitch hiking, and that it's very, very hard for people to accept that she was, but I'm not sure why. Is it because we all know it's dangerous to hitch hike, and we don't want her to do anything dangerous because she might get killed? She DID get killed. Maybe people feel they would be blaming the victim if they acknowledged that she took a risk.

 

[soothsayer]

RossVa, the police have said there were 3 witnesses to her hitch hiking. If the father and daughter count as 2 sightings, then there was at least one more car that saw her; if they count as 1 sighting, then there's a third car, too.

 

[rossva]

So, in other words, it is possible, that out of even three or four cars driving down Copley, one could have been one Morgan thought was her friends coming to get her.

RossVa, the police have said there were 3 witnesses to her hitch hiking. If the father and daughter count as 2 sightings, then there was at least one more car that saw her; if they count as 1 sighting, then there's a third car, too.

 

[soothsayer]

So, in other words, it is possible, that out of even three or four cars driving down Copley, one could have been one Morgan thought was her friends coming to get her.

Sure. But since she was asking strangers in the lot for a ride, and didn't find one, it seems like it's a pretty good chance that she was actually trying to hitch a ride on that road.

 

[soothsayer]

Looks like there were three different cars that spotted her. From the Hook last Feb:

Within approximately 10 minutes of those two bridge crossings, two other unrelated witnesses reported to police that they'd seen a blond woman hitchhiking there. Cappuzzo says all witnesses' stories have been thoroughly vetted by police, and none are considered suspects.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Looks like there were three different cars that spotted her. From the Hook last Feb:

Within approximately 10 minutes of those two bridge crossings, two other unrelated witnesses reported to police that they'd seen a blond woman hitchhiking there. Cappuzzo says all witnesses' stories have been thoroughly vetted by police, and none are considered suspects.

Maybe I am misunderstanding this :

BB players were last to see Morgan before the bridge
That was around 9:30

Father/ daughter cross bridge 1st time at approx 9:31
They see Morgan hitchhiking

Father comes back over bridge 2nd time after dropping daughter off and "Morgan was gone"

Now if 3 witnesses observed Morgan on the bridge within a 10 minute time span: 9:30 to 9:40 , how could 3 witnesses see her on bridge without seeing someone pick her up??

Remember when the father came back she was gone. So from 9:30 to maybe 9:35 she would have had to have been taken, if not the father on his return trip would have seen who picked her up, right??

 

[otto]

It seems to me that a law making it illegal to hitchhike would go a long way towards preventing similar tragedies from happening. I'm not convinced that doing anything about drunk people being allowed to break the no re-entry rule helps anyone.

 

[soothsayer]

Maybe I am misunderstanding this :

Now if 3 witnesses observed Morgan on the bridge within a 10 minute time span: 9:30 to 9:40 , how could 3 witnesses see her on bridge without seeing someone pick her up??

Must take just seconds to cross that bridge, and seconds for her to hop into a car that stops. So if a witness passes at 9:31, and another at 9:32, and another at 9:33, then perhaps the fourth car stopped at 9:34 and she hopped in and was gone, with no witnesses.

OR...two cars could have passed her at 9:31 or 9:32 (traveling in the same or opposite directions) and then when the fourth car stopped at 9:33, she could lean into the window and chat with him for a minute or even 2 and be gone before any other witnesses drove by.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

Must take just seconds to cross that bridge, and seconds for her to hop into a car that stops. So if a witness passes at 9:31, and another at 9:32, and another at 9:33, then perhaps the fourth car stopped at 9:34 and she hopped in and was gone, with no witnesses.

OR...two cars could have passed her at 9:31 or 9:32 (traveling in the same or opposite directions) and then when the fourth car stopped at 9:33, she could lean into the window and chat with him for a minute or even 2 and be gone before any other witnesses drove by.

I hear you. To me, it just seems like Morgan had to be the unluckiest person ever. Consider she got past all those witnesses, she was still ok, but the minute she set foot on that bridge within a matter of minutes she had accepted a ride with "the Psycho", and 3 people saw her hitchhiking, but no one saw her getting into a car.
It would of had to be pretty quick, and that doesn't leave room for a struggle.
So who would Morgan find reasonable to accept a ride with?

That is why I keep going back to someone in authority--Campus police, security, or LE.
I am not arguing this point because I do not believe she was hitchhiking, apparently her scent was traced to that bridge. Do you know where her scent was lost?

 

[otto]

I hear you. To me, it just seems like Morgan had to be the unluckiest person ever. Consider she got past all those witnesses, she was still ok, but the minute she set foot on that bridge within a matter of minutes she had accepted a ride with "the Psycho", and 3 people saw her hitchhiking, but no one saw her getting into a car.
It would of had to be pretty quick, and that doesn't leave room for a struggle.
So who would Morgan find reasonable to accept a ride with?

That is why I keep going back to someone in authority--Campus police, security, or LE.
I am not arguing this point because I do not believe she was hitchhiking, apparently her scent was traced to that bridge. Do you know where her scent was lost?

They have the guy's DNA and he's connected with another sexual assault from about 6 years ago. There's a sketch of the guy from the first victim. I doubt he works with campus security or police.

 

[R.U.Kidding!]

They have the guy's DNA and he's connected with another sexual assault from about 6 years ago. There's a sketch of the guy from the first victim. I doubt he works with campus security or police.

Hi Otto,

Yes, I know they have the composite sketch with DNA from where Morgan was found. Doesn't mean he couldn't have a "security" connection or just posed as LE to get Morgan into the car, right? We also don't know exactly where his DNA was discovered at the site. He may have been one of several people to have had a hand in her demise.

 

[soothsayer]

Hi Otto,

Yes, I know they have the composite sketch with DNA from where Morgan was found. Doesn't mean he couldn't have a "security" connection or just posed as LE to get Morgan into the car, right? We also don't know exactly where his DNA was discovered at the site. He may have been one of several people to have had a hand in her demise.

He worked alone when he assaulted the Fairfax woman. No reason to think he would change to a group affair. He might not even have been planning an attack until Morgan fell into his lap that night as a perfect victim.