VA - Nicole Lovell, 13, Blacksburg, 27 January 2016 #3 *Arrests*

[Greggy]

Projection: DE - 30 years, NK - 23 years

I agree with the commentary by thepeppers about the sentencing of young adults in Virginia. You usually have to be a creep of negligible merit to be given the opportunity to Ride the Lightning in Virginia. The alleged serial murderer, J Matthews, seems to fit that bill, but DE is too young and hasn't been linked to any earlier criminal misconduct. If the case information that has been leaked is true, then he'll probably be sentenced to more prison time than collegian George Huguely (23 years). An "it was an unforeseen aberration" good kid defense coupled with first-time tears and regret will possibly result in a 30 year sentence. Fortunately, the great Commonwealth of Virginia does not like to parole murderers.

Though it shouldn't be a factor, socio-economic standing seems to play a part in the sentencing of young adult murderers in Virginia. This may work in DE's and NK's favor since they once showed potential for a profession. From a Defense perspective, it is vitally important that DE and NK have their trials severed so that they can blame everything about the murder on the other in separate trials. I suggest that NK is looking at a sentence more in the Huguely range, plenty of time for her to get over that gluten sensitivity.

If the jury focuses on their lack of conscience and capacity to re-offend, then my sentencing projections may be overly conservative.

 

[al66pine]

Here's the timeline with figures rounded off a bit. I'd say these are the earliest possible times for each site if DE truly picked up NK after the murder and took her back to Craig Creek Road.

12:39 Last message between DE and Nicole.
12:40 DE picked up Nicole.
01:00 DE and Nicole arrive at murder site.
01:10 DE left murder site.
01:25 DE picked up NK.
01:40 DE/NK arrive at murder site.
01:50 DE/NK leave murder site.
02:50 DE/NK arrived at Wytheville Walmart
03:00 DE/NK left Walmart
04:00 Arrive at Lowgap body disposal site.
04:15 Leave Lowgap
05:45 Arrive at dorms.

Thanks for listing events this way ^. Very helpful, easier to follow than paragraph form.

What time is the Craig Creek stop? Could you, or someone, add, pls?

Some ^ time info, like security cam timestamp, may be more reliable (or subject to less debate or manipulation) than time info from other sources. Maybe after ea time, can designate source by footnotes, like this: TripAdvisor.com est, WalMart cam t/s, dorm cam t/s, traffic cam t/s, my est, etc.
If no time to do this, no worries. Thx in adv. And thx again for timeline.

 

[Mellowscout]

http://video.foxnews.com/v/47399475...-girl/?playlist_id=930909814001#sp=show-clips

Its been a while since I've posted on this forum so hope I'm doing this correctly. If its already been posted, I apologize in advance. This link is to a video from last nights Greta Van Susteren show. Its almost 6 minutes long and at about the 3 minute mark, there is video of the NC crime scene with the Surry County Sheriff.

 

[Hollzzz]

My thought was that perhaps he had Nicole bring the blanket so they could sit somewhere (playing up the romantic angle). Perhaps a lot of the blood was on it. That would be quite a mess for NK to put in a suitcase, though. The other thought about the snow is they could have used the shovel to cover the snow with more snow. Not easily done in the dark and flashlights would have attracted attention.

Or perhaps a tarp? I was thinking if there was arterial spray it would have gone all over, but they certainly could have used that shovel to cover up whatever they could see.

 

[Bootsctr]

http://video.foxnews.com/v/47399475...-girl/?playlist_id=930909814001#sp=show-clips

Its been a while since I've posted on this forum so hope I'm doing this correctly. If its already been posted, I apologize in advance. This link is to a video from last nights Greta Van Susteren show. Its almost 6 minutes long and at about the 3 minute mark, there is video of the NC crime scene with the Surry County Sheriff.

Excellent video! Thanks for posting! Poor Nicole... dumped like trash.

 

[wyome]

Someone correct me if I am wrong but if Nicole was stabbed (throat slashed) wouldn't she need to bleed out, and that be incredibly messy? Where is the mess? On the side of Craig Creek Road? And even if she did bleed out there, wouldn't she be super messy to pick up and store in your car? What about DE and NK's clothes?

There was no mention of curtain or tarp being purchased, either, so I can't imagine putting a stabbed body in a trunk without it continuing to bleed out. And NL was stuffed in there for a good amount of time. Would the cold keep the body from producing gases and smelling during that time? Blood's going to soak right through a blanket. Someone had mentioned that Nicole could have brought her blanket because it was cold and maybe didn't have her coat handy in her room.

 

[Ven]

Projection: DE - 30 years, NK - 23 years

This would be disgusting. They killed someone. They should never see the light of day again.

 

[wyome]

I think the "wanted to be a part of something secret and special" that the prosecutor argued will be a huge thorn in Natalie's defense's side. This is why lawyers never, ever want their clients to speak to LE. Your words can and will be used against you. She could have said this to the FBI in regards to catfishing Nicole, but they used it in this context. Not saying it was or wasn't, just my opinion.

 

[JohnTate90210]

Thanks for listing events this way ^. Very helpful, easier to follow than paragraph form.

What time is the Craig Creek stop? Could you, or someone, add, pls?

Some ^ time info, like security cam timestamp, may be more reliable (or subject to less debate or manipulation) than time info from other sources. Maybe after ea time, can designate source by footnotes, like this: TripAdvisor.com est, WalMart cam t/s, dorm cam t/s, traffic cam t/s, my est, etc.
If no time to do this, no worries. Thx in adv. And thx again for timeline.

12:39 for the last message has been in multiple news stories. Everything else is based on Google's driving estimates with a few minutes tossed in here and there. I listed Craig Creek as "murder site." I just added in sunrise based on what some website said was the correct time for that day and location. As far as I know, police haven't released any time information other than the 12:39 message.

Things could be rather different if NK actually rode along with DE and Nicole to Craig Creek Road. About 30 minutes shaved off. Same thing if NK followed at a distance in her own car and arrived quickly after the murder.

I suspect several things took longer than I estimated. There's NK's story that they drove around arguing about what to do for a while. I think that was in the former reporter's version. Also, when did they run by the pond (assuming they actually did)? Was it on the way to Wytheville, when they returned from Lowgap or sometime the next day? I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't arrive home until around 7:00.

 

[thepeppers]

http://video.foxnews.com/v/47399475...-girl/?playlist_id=930909814001#sp=show-clips

Its been a while since I've posted on this forum so hope I'm doing this correctly. If its already been posted, I apologize in advance. This link is to a video from last nights Greta Van Susteren show. Its almost 6 minutes long and at about the 3 minute mark, there is video of the NC crime scene with the Surry County Sheriff.

Thanks for posting, that was pretty interesting to me. It doesn't seem like they did anything to hide the body (why did they need a shovel). I wonder if they discovered the ground was too hard from all the cold weather and snow, and they just threw her out of the trunk. It also doesn't sound like they covered her with anything (no leaves, sticks, dirt, nothing), almost as if they wanted her to be found. And I agree with the sheriff, why not make a little more effort, walk 50 more feet and hide her down that hill???

 

[QueenBea13]

I've been wondering whether NK could have possibly initiated the catfishing, using a profile she created with picture of DE.

Maybe we should be looking for David A instead of David E....that is what the KiK screenshot had with his pic...mind you that picture isn't on DE's Facebook, at least that I can see.


The thoughts & opinions stated above are that, MY random thoughts & opinions.

 

[LaborDayRN]

You are not bound by law to report a crime that you had no part in.

There are laws about "mandatory reporters" of child abuse, meaning there are some occupations that are required to report child abuse that they witness or know of. Doctors, teachers, I forget who all is a mandatory reporter.

Meaning, of course, that most of us aren't required to report. You can witness a crime and walk away, not having participated or benefited.

Here are the mandated reporter in CA.

Though everyone should report child abuse, a number of professionals must report abuse or be held liable by law. The specific positions are listed in California Penal Code section 11165.7. Professions include but are not limited to:
A teacher
An instructional aide
A teacher’s aide or assistant at public or private school
An employee of public school
An administrative officer or supervisor of child welfare and attendance of any school
An administrator of day camp, public or private
An administrator or employee of a public or private youth center, youth recreation program, or youth organization
An administrator or employee of any organization whose duties require direct contact and supervision of children
Any employee of the state or county education system whose duties bring them into contact with children on a regular basis
A licensee, administrator, or employee of a licensed community care or child day care facility
A Head Start program teacher
A licensing worker or licensing evaluator
A public assistance worker
An employee of a child care institution including foster parents, group home personnel, and personnel of residential care facilities
A social worker, probation officer, or parole officer
An employee of a school district police or security department
Any person who works in a child abuse prevention program in any school
A district attorney investigator, inspector, or local child support agency caseworker
A peace officer
A firefighter (except volunteers)
A physician, surgeon, psychiatrist, psychologist, dentist, resident, intern, podiatrist, chiropractor, licensed nurse, dental hygienist, optometrist, marriage, family and child counselor, clinical social worker
Any EMT, paramedic, or other certified person
A psychological assistant
A marriage, family, and child therapist trainee
An unlicensed marriage, family, and child therapist intern
A state or county public health employee
A coroner
A medical examiner or anyone who performs autopsies
A commercial film and photo processor
A child visitation monitor
An animal control officer or humane society officer
A clergy member or religious practitioner
A custodian of records of a clergy member
Any employee of any police department, county sheriff’s department, county probation department, or county welfare department
An employee or volunteer of a Court Appointed Special Advocate program
An alcohol or drug counselor

http://www.mandatedreporterca.com/faq/faq.htm

 

[abstr]

http://villagegreentownsquared.blogspot.com/2016/02/these-doors-are-shut.html
Not really related but another view of what Columbia/HoCo is like.

 

[LaborDayRN]

FWIW - I've updated the map with new info as it has been released. https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=z2VLvG6QAl8U.ka7xd-tCxjMI&usp=sharing

:tyou::yourock:

 

[Rayemonde]

Oh, wow! I was starting to think that perhaps she had just wandered off after all!

 

[strawberry]

http://video.foxnews.com/v/47399475...-girl/?playlist_id=930909814001#sp=show-clips

Its been a while since I've posted on this forum so hope I'm doing this correctly. If its already been posted, I apologize in advance. This link is to a video from last nights Greta Van Susteren show. Its almost 6 minutes long and at about the 3 minute mark, there is video of the NC crime scene with the Surry County Sheriff.

Wow. They just literally tossed her aside


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ClaireNC]

12:39 for the last message has been in multiple news stories. Everything else is based on Google's driving estimates with a few minutes tossed in here and there. I listed Craig Creek as "murder site." I just added in sunrise based on what some website said was the correct time for that day and location. As far as I know, police haven't released any time information other than the 12:39 message.

Things could be rather different if NK actually rode along with DE and Nicole to Craig Creek Road. About 30 minutes shaved off. Same thing if NK followed at a distance in her own car and arrived quickly after the murder.

I suspect several things took longer than I estimated. There's NK's story that they drove around arguing about what to do for a while. I think that was in the former reporter's version. Also, when did they run by the pond (assuming they actually did)? Was it on the way to Wytheville, when they returned from Lowgap or sometime the next day? I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't arrive home until around 7:00.

Great work on the timeline! You might want to note that it is based on NK's version of the story. We don't really know if it is true that DE picked her up after the murder or if she was there when it happened. Wasn't there another version that said DE dropped Nicole off with NK and another with something like after Nicole climbed out the window they went and picked up NK?

 

[aspyingmachine]

IMO -
Some theories.

IF NK had a boyfriend, and she was close to DE, is it plausible she tried to set him up with someone? Is it plausible she catfishes NL into meeting with DE? We have Instagram "evidence" that might point to DE and NL communicating in late November early December. Could NK set the two up, not knowing NL's real age? Hoping to find someone for DE so he would stop hitting on her? Maybe she didn't like him in terms of dating but enjoyed him as a friend and confidant.

Also - some ***rumors*** stating that NL was having relations with other students on campus. Is it possible that she told DE she might be pregnant and he then heeded the help of NK to murder NL so he wouldn't have to worry about if she was pregnant or not? If she was.. Might not have belonged to DE but he wasn't aware of her relations with other students so he assumed, by default, it was his? And had to do something about it?

Were the two suspects interested and fascinated with Making a murderer? Did they want to murder someone and try to beat the system?

This is all in my opinion only as I try to put together a stronger motive.

Time will tell.

 

[wyome]

Wow. They just literally tossed her aside


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sure did. That was a long drive to get there, too.

 

[Elainera]

On December 13, NK posted a pic of that boy in front of the shower and called him BAE. The girl who says she talked to the RO commented, Your baby looks 25. NK said she was just trying to make "someone" jealous. Then the girl says "But yet you was dating a 20 year old."

NK eplies No I'm not I'm single and the girl responds "Honey I said "WAS"

I believe you meant NL? Not NK = Natalie Keepers?

Someone correct me if I am wrong but if Nicole was stabbed (throat slashed) wouldn't she need to bleed out, and that be incredibly messy? Where is the mess? On the side of Craig Creek Road? And even if she did bleed out there, wouldn't she be super messy to pick up and store in your car? What about DE and NK's clothes?

You're right, it would have been a very bloody crime. I hope LE have found and collected DE's and NK's clothes. The car should yield a lot of evidence too unless he (or they) killed her outside of the car and then wrapped her in a plastic sheet before putting her in the trunk.

I guess LE were looking for blood when they combed through the empty lot next to the shooting range.

There was no mention of curtain or tarp being purchased, either, so I can't imagine putting a stabbed body in a trunk without it continuing to bleed out. And NL was stuffed in there for a good amount of time. Would the cold keep the body from producing gases and smelling during that time? Blood's going to soak right through a blanket. Someone had mentioned that Nicole could have brought her blanket because it was cold and maybe didn't have her coat handy in her room.

bbm
Noticeable gas production during decomposition only occurs after days, if not weeks (if in a cold environment).


Another question: are verbatim court transcripts from NK's bond hearing to be made public?