GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #2

[mamame]

After thinking on it all night, I'm leaning hard toward tragic accident based on what is known. I'm picturing almost a quicksand effect, where he stepped on a spot over a weak septic cover, fell in, and the hole was small and covered itself over. Where I live we are coming out of a crazily snowy winter, and the ground is saturated...over-saturated. I pulled a brick up from our walkway and the mud immediately filled the spot.

What I cannot explain is why the dogs didn't track his freshest scent, the track across the grass to the septic tank.

I hope I'm correct. I can hardly bear that explanation.

 

[matou]

If Noah fell in because the tank broke or caved in, there would be some kind of noise. This tank is near the trailer as well, I heard. Would he have screamed?

 

[JeannaT]

If Noah fell in because the tank broke or caved in, there would be some kind of noise. This tank is near the trailer as well, I heard. Would he have screamed?

Interestingly, drowning people seldom scream. That's how people drown in public pools in full view of willing help. They become distressed, panic silently, and drown silently.

 

[Mjskit]

I live in a rural area. My septic was originally a 500 gallon tank made of stainless steel. The lid was 4 feet in diameter. When I had the system cleaned out I had to dig 3 - 4 feet down to uncover the whole lid. I found out then that the lid was not much thicker than a pizza pan - definitely not safe to walk on - so I replaced the lid with a 5 foot piece of 1/2 inch diamond plated steel. Years ago anyone could build their own system.

 

[JeannaT]

After thinking on it all night, I'm leaning hard toward tragic accident based on what is known. I'm picturing almost a quicksand effect, where he stepped on a spot over a weak septic cover, fell in, and the hole was small and covered itself over. Where I live we are coming out of a crazily snowy winter, and the ground is saturated...over-saturated. I pulled a brick up from our walkway and the mud immediately filled the spot.

What I cannot explain is why the dogs didn't track his freshest scent, the track across the grass to the septic tank.

I hope I'm correct. I can hardly bear that explanation.

I'm not the least bit surprised. In all the years I've been following websleuths, I literally can't remember one single case where the dogs did get it right. Not one. And often the remains are right there, virtually under the noses of the investigators - and the dogs.

Often the dogs track a less recent trail, leading them somewhere that isn't helpful to the investigation.

I do know dogs are great tracking in the wilderness, and K9 units are great at tracking a living person when there has been no contamination of the trail. In cases like this, the trail was hopelessly contaminated by searchers and by Noah himself living there and having walked the property innumerable times. I think they tracked to the street because he had been dropped off or picked up there, OR searchers tracked his scent on their own shoes.

Dogs are great when they lead searchers to things. When they only appear to communicate a trail, that doesn't correlated with reality, IMHO. Our culture for some reason gives them way too much credit for accuracy in cases like Noah's.

 

[passionflower]

I will hold my tongue for now and sit on my fingers.
was the earth and lid easy to move?
did someone open it few days before for a child to be curious?

 

[AnnaGrace]

I will hold my tongue for now and sit on my fingers.
was the earth and lid easy to move?
did someone open it few days before for a child to be curious?

I'm keeping an open mind and trying not to form any opinions. My thought is that if the septic tank had been open, or even if the lid had broken through, the stench from it would have been overpowering to the neighborhood. If it was open, even a crack, I don't see how it could have gone unnoticed.

 

[blazelet]

Is anyone else scared of this press conference? I don't want to know what they have to say ... :/

 

[JeannaT]

Is anyone else scared of this press conference? I don't want to know what they have to say ... :/

No - since there hasn't been word of any arrests, I'm feeling kind of confident they will announce it appears to be accidental and please give the grieving family privacy. I also hope LE will be clear - with photos and drawings - how the septic tank became accessible to a 5 year old. Then maybe someone will announce in the future a campaign to have property owners check septic tanks for safety.

 

[Really?]

R.I.P little Noah

 

[daisy7]

Link for presser

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/watch-live-backup-livestreaming/25755784

 

[AnnaGrace]

Blazelet

I am afraid of what the update might be. I'm anxious too for updates. Hopefully, this was a dreadful, horrific accident.

 

[blazelet]

Blazelet

I am afraid of what the update might be. I'm anxious too for updates. Hopefully, this was a dreadful, horrific accident.

I'm torn. An accident would mean little Noah drowning alone in a septic tank. A non accident would mean someone was vile enough to put him there.

I guess in the end there is no good outcome, and the press conference possibly enshrines it.

 

[hollye]

Because the press conference was moved from 8am to 10am, I have a feeling that they will be providing more information, whatever that may be.

Pulling from several different scenarios and information (true or fabricated) from the beginning, what if Noah had the tin of pokeman cards and would bring them to school, maybe he would show them to the kids on the bus and maybe one of those kids really wanted one of the cards that Noah had. Maybe that child lured Noah out of his house on Sunday morning, and struggled with Noah to get that card. Maybe something happened to Noah and the child panicked, found a place to hide Noah in the septic tank and then replaced the lid. Because Mom was sleeping and the TV was maybe on, she never heard a thing. I realize that this is unlikely, but I am desperately trying to come up with some sort of scenario as to how little Noah ended up in that tank.

 

[ANonyMs]

I want to phrase this carefully, so Bessie or others, if I am out of line, please reign me in or snip freely!

The county property records do not indicate the property is owned by either of Noah's parents. The property identified by that address is part of a larger master parcel (several smaller plots owned by the same person and not subdivided). The last name of the property owner is the same as one of the organizers of the vigil. It also looked familiar so I am trying to see if the owners were quoted in any of the articles.

The point is, this is a large area of land that does not have a next door neighbor directly on them (I understand the size is hard for some people to discern in the aerial shots). The land is technically different plots but it is used as one big yard. The families where at least close enough for someone to be planning a vigil.

As for septic tanks, I guess I don't understand what the point is of saying there is no way a child could gain access (intentionally or accidentally) by themselves. It may well be the case that he was placed there, but without knowing what kind of system they had, there is no way to make an educated guess. Yes, there really are several different kinds of systems. Yes, the lid could be thin or improperly secured. Yes, kids find things playing out in the yard that we as adults overlook or would never really observe. Kids have little else on their minds to distract them as we do. A cool lid or hole in the yard covered by weeds, bushes, whatever, might be just the thing to pique a 5 year old's interest.
We also don't even know if the term "septic tank" is being used correctly as it could have been a brown water holding tank, a sludge tank or other parts of systems that have been used in the past as alternative or supplemental parts to a septic system.

 

[JeannaT]

Well that wasn't the strong statement I thought it would be. Apparently they don't know manner of death yet, and didn't seem to be indicating they believe it was a pure accident involving only Noah and no one else.

 

[winterrose]

Well what a worthless presser. Doesn't the Sheriff know pressers are for information? I think the Sheriff needs to worry less about social media and what people think and concentrate the pressers on the facts of the case. When we hear presser, we assume we're going to be hearing an update, more information than we already know.

 

[daisy7]

He stressed a death investigation (not homicide). Warning about believing rumors, again.

 

[epiphany]

Presser:

-The investigation will be driven by "facts & physical evidence, not driven by speculation or rumors."

-Speculation & rumors will do nothing but hurt this investigation.

-"Death" investigation

 

[JeannaT]

I agree. Enough of him talking to hear his own voice.