GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #2

[Meemaw12]

Courtny

Hate to bother you again, but could you ask your family

was the lid to the septic tank buried under dirt and sod or could you see the green lid simply walking along near it?

Did your family ever have any trouble with the tank while they lived there, trying to get a feel if it was a problem tank or pump? Needed service often

Thank you


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[A-Christie]

Not necessarily... we recently bought a 1930's bungalow and the county has no record of where the septic tank is located. We ended up hiring someone to dig until he found it. Even the old timer's in the neighborhood and the 60+ year old man that grew up in this house had no idea where it was located... no one remembers it ever being cleaned out and boy oh boy did it need to be cleaned out! It was found about 6' from the rear wall of the house.

On another similar note: We recently looked at a property for sale that had a early 1900's house and then added onto... the seller stated the septic tank was under the back porch.

 

[they'll get you]

Hopefully there will be finger prints on the lid.

 

[nannymo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s84bVDWWyY

Here is a great youtube video showing a replacement riser and lid to a septic tank. Gives you a very good visual of what the septic tank MIGHT have looked like.

 

[Meemaw12]

Note to self: never ever talk about septic tanks while fixing dinner


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[A-Christie]

Did mom know he had the jacket on when she gave his description? Or did she notice it was missing, too? Because if she saw he had it on, wouldn't she know he was going outside?

This may have been answered already...I'm catching up after being offline for a day or so... anyway, I believe that the mother noticed the jacket was missing later.

 

[LorinMarie]

Ive been reading along but have not posted yet. If the lid was off the septic day 1 I feel sure it would have been one of the first areas checked. That would be a huge red flag. It makes no logical sense to me that there was a lid off and it took a tip days later to search there. Based on the info we do have this doesnt sound like an accident. For such a high priority exact tip I feel someone knew he was there and the lid was on with nothing looking disturbed to raise an eyebrow prior. There have been accidents and usually i see that revealed rather quickly so I have a bad feeling about this. I just hope the little guy didnt suffer. I have been smothering my 5 year old with extra hugs this week

 

[Meemaw12]

Do we have any pictures from early in the search showing where the little red building was located? Was it always on wheels and in the same location? From the video it looks very close to where the septic tank is.

http://www.wset.com/clip/11286692/investigators-yard-searched-many-times-before-noah-was-fond

It shows the red building with tires, part of a tan shed and a portable tent with blue covering set up


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[Steleheart]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s84bVDWWyY

Here is a great youtube video showing a replacement riser and lid to a septic tank. Gives you a very good visual of what the septic tank MIGHT have looked like.

Excellent video, thank you , that's good sleuthing

 

[DeeMarie]

I know nothing about septics but manure in a barn is heat.
I though body gases would bring someone to the top.

Bodies usually stay underwater for between one and two weeks, although this varies widely and some bodies never come up at all. One of the factors which affects this is the temperature of the water. The colder the water the longer it takes for a body to float to the top...

But I think I know what you are getting at - if the septic tank had 'stuff' in it and it was thick would a body remain somewhat in sight and NOT float to the bottom..

...or was Noah tied to something to hold him down.?..

..maybe that's why the septic tank was checked/looked at twice by LE and Noah was not found until it was drained..

 

[kato969]

Just to throw another couple of thoughts into the mix...what if lid was off the sceptic tank or at least loose enough that Noah was able to pull it off himself, he falls in and drowns. Mum wakes up and goes looking for him, notices the lid and goes to investigate, sees noah dead and then panics. Maybe she didnt know what else to do so put the lid back on and reported him missing, either not thinking clearly enough to just report it as an accident or not wanting to get in trouble for leaving him alone etc?

I have no evidence of this obviously, just thinking out loud really. Wouldn't be plausible if digging is required to get to the lid though....

Such a sweet little boy, I do hope this was somehow an accident though I really don't know what to think at the moment. My mum called me and my brother her 'little sausages' when we were young, seems to suit little Noah for some reason, R.I.P little sausage :heartbeat:

 

[courtneyb]

The lid was not visible when she was there. It was usually buried under sod/grass. The only visible part was the small white pvc pipe sticking out of the ground in the picture I posted earlier. Whether or not any maintenance had been done to it in the time since then, she doesn't know. But they did not have any plumbing issues when she was there.


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[winterrose]

http://www.wset.com/story/28639698/community-releases-balloons-to-remember-noah-thomas

Community Releases Balloons to Remember Noah Thomas

 

[matou]

Where were Noah's parents when the septic was being investigated?

 

[Meemaw12]

The lid was not visible when she was there. It was usually buried under sod/grass. The only visible part was the small white pvc pipe sticking out of the ground in the picture I posted earlier. Whether or not any maintenance had been done to it in the time since then, she doesn't know. But they did not have any plumbing issues when she was there.


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Thank you so much, now we know. Also please tell your family thanks for answering questions about this tragedy. It must be hard for them to talk about, knowing this lil fellow.


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[Zuri]

I think LE needs time to develop the case if this was not an accident. The freeze out of information allows them to not have to deal with media and tips (that might take time and limited financial resources) that are exploiting the information out there. This also allows them to really get a bead on this family if they are thinking the parents are responsible. Before they found Noah it was hard to go at the family. I am sure LE wants to get as much as they can before anyone lawyers up.

If this was a negligence issue of an unsecured tank, there are legal ramifications as well for the owner of the property or the person who left the tank unsecured.

I was thinking the same thing. The Sheriff keeps saying in his PC to stop speculation, innuendo and rumors on social media. Is that because he needs people to remain open minded in case there is a trial by jury? So people would not make up their minds ahead of time?

The more I think about it, the more I am thinking foul play is involved. I read on the FB page that the admins knew Noah, but make no mention of the parents other than to say they are devastated. One would think by now, they could have put a message from the parents, thanking people for their search efforts and time. Something is definitely not right...IMO

 

[Steleheart]

Ive been reading along but have not posted yet. If the lid was off the septic day 1 I feel sure it would have been one of the first areas checked. That would be a huge red flag. It makes no logical sense to me that there was a lid off and it took a tip days later to search there. Based on the info we do have this doesnt sound like an accident. For such a high priority exact tip I feel someone knew he was there and the lid was on with nothing looking disturbed to raise an eyebrow prior. There have been accidents and usually i see that revealed rather quickly so I have a bad feeling about this. I just hope the little guy didnt suffer. I have been smothering my 5 year old with extra hugs this week

Very good point. IMO it was not obvious that the tank had been opened. If the info we have from the reporter posted upthread is correct, that she was on the property and only saw the sod and not the cover means that it was buried under the lawn. The lawn had to be cut and that takes adult strength in my experience. Then to open it, put the child in and then replace the sod and tamp it down, it may not have even looked disturbed.

"Phillips says regardless of the size and weight of the lid most are buried, so you have to use a shovel to get to them and some type of tool to remove them from the tank."
http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/sanitation-technician-describes-discovery-of-noah-thomas/32052894

I truly wanted to go with the accident theory, but IMO from what we know it not only needed some strength, it also needed some time.
Knowing that, the tip was a 'hard and credible" tip that caused all of LE to race over there and put up crime scene tape.
Whoever the tipper was either was told or was involved, IMO

:cow:

 

[YidArmyRach]

Thank you so much, now we know. Also please tell your family thanks for answering questions about this tragedy. It must be hard for them to talk about, knowing this lil fellow.


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Just want to add to the thanks. Its made such a difference having someone to answer questions and who knows certain facts about a case, especially when these facts aren't in the media yet.

I hope the children involved in your family are doing ok, must be hard for them to understand something like this happening to a friend - if anyone can ever understand.

 

[Zuri]

http://www.wset.com/story/28639698/community-releases-balloons-to-remember-noah-thomas

Community Releases Balloons to Remember Noah Thomas

Is the Tonya White named in this article as the organizer, related to the mother, Ashley White?

 

[YidArmyRach]

Very good point. IMO it was not obvious that the tank had been opened. If the info we have from the reporter posted upthread is correct, that she was on the property and only saw the sod and not the cover means that it was buried under the lawn. The lawn had to be cut and that takes adult strength in my experience. Then to open it, put the child in and then replace the sod and tamp it down, it may not have even looked disturbed.

"Phillips says regardless of the size and weight of the lid most are buried, so you have to use a shovel to get to them and some type of tool to remove them from the tank."
http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/sanitation-technician-describes-discovery-of-noah-thomas/32052894

I truly wanted to go with the accident theory, but IMO from what we know it not only needed some strength, it also needed some time.
Knowing that, the tip was a 'hard and credible" tip that caused all of LE tyo race over there and put up crime scene tape.
Whoever the tipper was either was told or was involved, IMO

:cow:

Could it be a confession? Although I guess an arrest would have followed. Would an arrest have to be publicised immediately, or could it be quiet if it meant that others involved were kept in the dark? Not sure on US law.