GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #3

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  • #241
Thank you Meemaw. You know, the fact that there's still an investigation, makes me think this is probably not an unquestionable accidental drowning. Emphasizing JMO.

I just don't know what to think honestly, it chills me to the bone to think anyone would do this, at the same time I don't want to think he went into that awful place alive (fell in).

I do believe there should be national news about the dangers of septic tanks no matter the outcome of this tragedy. Those lids should be fiberglass at best not plastic. Plastic degrades. I had a plastic container sitting on a deck with Tupperware in it, the Tupperware broke down in pieces, the lid on the container broke down in pieces.

Imo


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  • #242
I'm really starting to lean toward a juvenile being involved here :(.
 
  • #243
Maybe a statement from the sheriff's office will be forthcoming soon with some info to help set peoples minds to rest. With all the rumors and speculation, people hear it whether they want to or not, maybe there is info that could ease this up. Even if this turns out to not be an accidental death, it still doesn't make the rumors true. I feel like it's a possibility some terrible accident may have happened beforehand and someone tried to cover it up out of fear.
 
  • #244
I'm really starting to lean toward a juvenile being involved here :(.

Because of the kid gloves, the extended time, the lack of any information being disseminated? Maybe. It was one of the first descriptions given out to MSM, "seen with a male child," right? Then it just went away. No reporters even asked about it at the first press conference which was really odd to me.

I really hope this turns out to be an accident, straight up, with no one else involved. A girl can wish.
 
  • #245
Looking at the plastic lid they show keeps making me wonder if he did unscrew part of that lid and fell in looking. If he lifted it up enough and the other part was screwed in it would fall back into place. He's old enough to unscrew things, mine were at that age. I'm wondering if the hard tip could've also been a missing screwdriver found around it in the grass. This is only if they never opened the lid before Thursday.

When I first heard this, I was thinking no way, it's a concrete top, now I just don't know.
 
  • #246
I wonder what it will mean if the tin of Pokeman cards are NOT found in the sewage truck when the contents get examined.

I wonder if LE searched the family's residence? I know that where I live, if someone is reported missing, police will come and search the home when taking the missing persons report.
 
  • #247
I wonder if that scenario would lead to prosecutions for parents involved? If there were young children outside with no supervision for maybe 2 - 3 hours, and for such a horrendous thing to happen, would it lead to any charges?

I know the law in the UK doesn’t say an age when you can leave a child on their own, but it’s an offence to leave a child alone if it places them at risk.

In effect, if you are asleep in another room, then your child is technically alone. The Governmental website in the UK actually states: Parents can be prosecuted if they leave a child unsupervised ‘in a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to health’. I wonder if there is similar thinking in this case, and that is what the delays are all about?

Here is part of the Virginia state law. I think there is a lot of room here to leave it up to a case-by-case basis, but technically there is no minimum age for children to be "home alone" (and thus, unsupervised)
http://www.dss.virginia.gov/files/division/dfs/cps/intro_page/publications/general/alone.pdf

Pulaski County does not list specific guidelines on their website, but under Family Engagement, this statement links to Virginia State resources:
" No longer are Virginia's social service agencies the sole decision makers for Virginia's children and families. Family engagement requires a shift from the belief that agencies alone know what is best for children and families to one that allows the family to fully participate in decision-making." from http://www.pcdss.org/index.php?id=children

However, Pulaski County (as many others in Virginia) require an adult meet Kindergartners when they get off the school bus. A child of Noah's age (he was in Kindergarten) would not have been allowed to disembark the school bus to walk home, whether that was a short of long distance, without the bus driver being able to see a known adult waiting for him. That stands to reason that Pulaski county views a Kindergartner as too young to be walking outside unattended/unsupervised. (The press may not have traveled across the pond to the UK but there is a big case in MSM currently of a family in a neighboring state allowing their children, ages 6 & 10, to play outside unsupervised and walk to a nearby park).

Basically, the state law in Virginia is very minimal and each county has an opportunity to set more stringent "guidelines" in place.

Just for frame of reference, here are a couple of other counties in VA
(Fairfax County) 7 years and under:
Should not be left alone for any period of time. This may include leaving children unattended in cars, playgrounds, and backyards. The determining consideration would be the dangers in the environment and the ability of the caretaker to intervene.
(Loudon County)
Children Should be Supervised at All Times. Children who are in middle school or younger should have direct adult supervision. If this cannot be arranged, parents need to use good judgment in deciding if children should be left alone and for how long. Age 0-9 Should not be left unsupervised

I think all of that, taken together, means that, yes, charges could be pursued but they are not mandated.

P.S.
Where is our resident legal eagle on this?
 
  • #248
There are a lot of differences between the cases - too many to really compare the two. Caylee was "missing" for 5 or 6 months. Her remains were badly decomposed and she was exposed to different elements than Noah was. I think the autopsies would have gone very differently. Additionally, there was a lot of additional evidence found with her remains that had to be tested and considered with the autopsy results. We don't know what was found with Noah. Casey Anthony led investigators on a legendary wild goose chase whereas LE has repeatedly stated that Noah's parents have been cooperative. Casey Anthony had already been arrested when Caylee's remains were found, so I think they knew there would be a contentious trial, etc.

I do hope that you are right that LE is confident in the ME's findings. It would horrible to drag this out or leave lingering questions. Whether it is normal or not to release remains swiftly I think depends many factors in the case, not just the question of foul play. JMO.

Thanks, I was just trying to clarify it to myself, and you have confirmed what I believe - it depends on the case.
 
  • #249
So many answers lie in what condition the septic tank lid was first found in. Was it covered with dirt or sod? Was it bolted down? Just lying over the hole, cracked or broken, etc. I realize this would be part of the investigation and the likelihood of this being released to the public is slim at this time.
 
  • #250
Public can still help Noah investigation

By MELINDA WILLIAMS

[email protected]



Just because Noah Thomas’ body has been found doesn’t mean the public’s assistance in the investigation is no longer needed.

Pulaski County Sheriff Jim Davis issued a statement Friday encouraging citizens to “continue to provide us with any information or tips that may be helpful to our ongoing investigation” into the 5-year-old boy’s death. This can be accomplished by calling 540-980-7800.

Written by: Editor on March 30, 2015.

http://www.southwesttimes.com/2015/03/public-can-still-help-noah-investigation/



this caught me by surprise. really interested in what they have to say now. seems like they might be leaning towards something other than an accident if they're asking for ongoing help.
 
  • #251
Maybe a statement from the sheriff's office will be forthcoming soon with some info to help set peoples minds to rest. With all the rumors and speculation, people hear it whether they want to or not, maybe there is info that could ease this up. Even if this turns out to not be an accidental death, it still doesn't make the rumors true. I feel like it's a possibility some terrible accident may have happened beforehand and someone tried to cover it up out of fear.

I am wondering the same thing. Due to the lack of information being disseminated, my mind has gone in many directions with this case.

Did mom take dad to work with just the baby, thinking Noah was out playing and at someone else's home that Sunday morning? And they didn't have time to look for him as dad would have been late for work?

Could a child who frequently plays with Noah have engaged him in a game of hide and seek? Or suggested that the "underground tunnel" would be a cool thing to explore?

Do we know for a fact that the septic cover was actually under grass or dirt? I would think that LE would have noticed a disturbed area right away.

In the movies or cartoons of Batman or Spider-Man, did any of these super heroes use a man hole cover for anything? That could have sparked the imagination of a 5 year old?

Could another child have wanted Noah's Pokemon cards and tin? I highly doubt a child could have lifted or placed Noah in the septic tank, but could have encouraged Noah it would be cool to investigate it, not knowing what it actually was.

Due to the sensitive ages of Noah's playmates, how does LE interview these children? Would a parent go far enough to ask their kids if they had any involvement or cover for their children, not wanting them to be arrested or whatever?

I am really puzzled, given the lack of information to the media and public regarding Noah. Wouldn't his disappearance cause be really important for the community to know? So parents could caution their children about septic tanks or strangers or being told to do something by an older child or playmate that was dangerous?
 
  • #252
https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+16.1-228

I know parents have been arrested for leaving their kids alone at home, also if they've went to sleep and the child leaves the home and wanders out. I've heard that on the scanner and in articles, they've been really young kids though. I'm trying to find an age, I thought it was under 12 years old kids left alone would be considered neglect. It seems to be county to county.
 
  • #253
this caught me by surprise. really interested in what they have to say now. seems like they might be leaning towards something other than an accident if they're asking for ongoing help.

This was before the autopsy results....which means perhaps they are covering all their bases. Perhaps clues thus far were inconclusive, and they needed autopsy results to know more and in the meantime they wanted the public's help. The fact that the results are known now and they are having a burial means it's conclusive post-autopsy. Which tells me there were no signs of trauma to the body to indicate homicide...but there are so many unanswered questions with this case. I think normally LE gives more information to the public, which makes this even more mysterious. Very anxious to hear more information.
 
  • #254
Public can still help Noah investigation

By MELINDA WILLIAMS

[email protected]



Just because Noah Thomas’ body has been found doesn’t mean the public’s assistance in the investigation is no longer needed.

Pulaski County Sheriff Jim Davis issued a statement Friday encouraging citizens to “continue to provide us with any information or tips that may be helpful to our ongoing investigation” into the 5-year-old boy’s death. This can be accomplished by calling 540-980-7800.

Written by: Editor on March 30, 2015.

http://www.southwesttimes.com/2015/03/public-can-still-help-noah-investigation/

U

Whoa. That really surprises me.

You know, the fact that there's still an investigation, asking for tips from the public, makes one think this is probably not an unquestionable accidental drowning. {snipped}

this caught me by surprise. really interested in what they have to say now. seems like they might be leaning towards something other than an accident if they're asking for ongoing help.

Do we know anything more about the credible tip that came in? Lots of speculation that there was something untoward in the timing of the tip coming in so soon after the reward was offered but the tip could have been anonymous. This might be LE's way of leaving that door open for the tipster to call with more info or for others who really do know and are keeping quiet to be encouraged to call in? Just some ideas.
 
  • #255
Zuri

I totally agree and all of your questions are pertinent. I've gone over all of this so much in my own head. I would think it would be important at this point, for the community to have answers, so they could talk to their children about what has happened. I'm sure this is so confusing for kids in the area and those that knew Noah.
 
  • #256
@CameronOAustin: A release will be sent around 5 with an update on the investigation, but all "major" news will be shared at press conferences. #NoahThomas


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  • #257
I'm so confused. Was it ever stated if the lid appeared to be back on? If this is the case,then I don't see how poor Noah accidentally fell inside. Even if he lifted the lid by himself,how would it magically go back on on? On the other hand, I can't fathom either parent doing this.
 
  • #258
https://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+16.1-228

I know parents have been arrested for leaving their kids alone at home, also if they've went to sleep and the child leaves the home and wanders out. I've heard that on the scanner and in articles, they've been really young kids though. I'm trying to find an age, I thought it was under 12 years old kids left alone would be considered neglect. It seems to be county to county.

Whatever age it is would have to come from Pulaski County specifically.
 
  • #259
@CameronOAustin: A release will be sent around 5 with an update on the investigation, but all "major" news will be shared at press conferences. #NoahThomas


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


glad we got a time for today's info!

it's unclear, does this mean they'll also be announcing an upcoming press conference??
 
  • #260
Because of the kid gloves, the extended time, the lack of any information being disseminated? Maybe. It was one of the first descriptions given out to MSM, "seen with a male child," right? Then it just went away. No reporters even asked about it at the first press conference which was really odd to me.

I really hope this turns out to be an accident, straight up, with no one else involved. A girl can wish.

Yes, this and the proximity (in time) of the reward announced and tip received that caused LE to rush to the house. Sounds like either an immature kid called in the tip thinking they could get the reward money, or relayed the info. to their parents to get the money.

I don't know...I hope I'm wrong.
 
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