GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #3

[deugirtni]

I'm sorry, I have missed some pages due to just sheer volume of posts and not enough time to catch up on all that I miss everytime I have to leave.. I have no idea what this post below is referring to in regrd to the family being related to someone convicted of a horrible crime in the area.. is there a link or something I could look at to catch up? TY!

I agree. This family was also related to someone who was convicted of a horrible crime in the area. In the beginning, there was a lot of concern based the family relationship. This is a small town---people "know" or think they know a lot about each other. Some things may be true and some may be false.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I have read a couple of messages sent from the family: From Paul's sister and from the man at the vigil who said he was a friend of the family. People seem to be overlooking these. Is the delivery of the people meant to speak for the family or is the family not saying what people feel they should say?

Nowadays with social media being like it is I understand more and more why parents or family members are reluctant to speak out in the media when they find themselves in this type of situation. There just seems to be no way to please the masses.

I have seen it time and time again when they did speak out. They were always accused of things by many. Such as saying: 1.fake tears. 2. no tears. 3.Didn't dress appropriately. 4. looked to the right, looked down or looked to the right thinking that showed guilt. 3. Critiqued the way they said something and also thought it showed guilt. 4. showed no real emotion.

Even Jessica Ridgeways' mom didn't speak out for 5 days and before she did she was heckled for not doing so and when she finally did then some felt she was crying crocodile tears. I really think there is no way for parents to win today even if they are innocent.

I don't know if Noah's parents are innocent in all of this but I am more than willing to wait until the Sheriff tells us what the evidence shows him.

I don't think speaking out will help the situation and may make it worse.

 

[kaen]

I have read a couple of messages sent from the family: From Paul's sister and from the man at the vigil who said he was a friend of the family. People seem to be overlooking these. Is the delivery of the people meant to speak for the family or is the family not saying what people feel they should say?

I didn't hear the friend of the family speak. I did hear the aunt and uncle (as I wrote) after the press conference. The aunt and uncle referred to the justice aspect. As I wrote, I find it odd that we don't have family (grandparents, aunts, uncles) speaking about him, about who he was. If this were my nephew or grandson, I would want people to know what he loved, what he did and how he brought light into my life. In many cases, there are these kinds of statements.

Not a requirement for innocence or guilt in my book.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Slightly off topic, but I think the Sheriff's constant warnings about not listening to local gossip, probably alludes to things that we don't know about regarding the home life of Noah.

And that is exactly how gossip begins...as innuendo.

The Sheriff has been putting up with a ton of BS from not only locals, but from internet trolls and his warnings to stop come with just cause. It probably has nothing at all to do with the home life of Noah.

 

[ANonyMs]

Can anyone help with actual links or sources to the following?

1) Last confirmed public sighting: Was it Saturday night, or Sunday morning? Where they seen on a surveillance video at a store or something IIRC?

2) When was the "hard and credible tip" sent in?

 

[deugirtni]

I am confused in regard to that video clip by Orlando.. he states it at the end, but in the same breath as when speaking about the funeral service. I wondered.. surely LE wouldn't make a statement at the service!! So are people thinking they're waiting for the service to end before the findings are released? If so.. that doesn't make sense, does it? Normally, if a parent kills its own child, police don't care if that parent doesn't get to lay his child to rest.. and if a parent is not suspected in this case, then why wait until after the service, why not reassure the public that the parents have been cleared *before* they endure the service with suspicious eyes glaring them down?

Ugh. If true, that leads me to believe a parent is involved and made a deal to not be taken into custody until after the funeral.

 

[toevlugsoord]

Can anyone help with actual links or sources to the following?

1) Last confirmed public sighting: Was it Saturday night, or Sunday morning? Where they seen on a surveillance video at a store or something IIRC?

2) When was the "hard and credible tip" sent in?

Originally they were clear about Sunday morning surveillance. But the more recent articles have said only surveillance was on Saturday. Here's one source: http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/p...cle_fb880b36-441c-5918-b9e1-6043ec810c94.html

 

[ANonyMs]

This is heartbreaking and insightful. A blogger who was a neighbor of Noah's.

http://insanisea.com/2015/03/28/on-laps-and-loss-of-innocence/

 

[SeriouslySearching]

So then, here in WS I can only conclude that someone harmed the child and tried to hide him in the septic tank. A mother awoken perhaps, who lost her temper and made a stupid mistake in the heat of the moment.

Where are the facts you have put together to come to such a conclusion? So far, I have seen nothing which indicates any of the things you mentioned. In order to come to that conclusion, Noah's lungs would be free of liquid (and we have not been given results of any kind on the autopsy). We would need a witness to suggest the mother did something to him in a fit of anger and no one has ever said they heard her even raise her voice to Noah. The closest neighbors never said a word about his mother being anything except quiet. We do try to stick with facts when we get them.

 

[deugirtni]

Here is one of the links to that article (she talks about it at approx 2:19, but the whole video is worth watching):

http://www.wset.com/clip/11286692/in...-noah-was-fond

Hadn't heard that about the sod. Thanks for bringing that back up. Very great point.

Quote Originally Posted by deugirtni View Post
Even if the lid somehow managed to go perfectly back in place.. apparently there is a square of sod that was over the lid as well, as seen and reported on by a news reporter.. if that piece of sod had been somewhere other than covering the septic-lid when police first arrived, then LE would have noticed right away at first inspection of the yard.. and that would have been a large clue that something could have happened, and I'm sure they would have made a decision to pump it right away. Somehow, LE, although it is stated they checked the septic a few times, decided it did not warrant pumping until day 5. Although a lid could potentially flip back into place after devouring a human by accident, the sod has no such tricks up its sleeve.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

Just to get into the mind of a 5 y/o we are walking to the sports shop for a fishing license we walked by a septic cover my 5 y/o ran and jumped on it, it's plastic, it's broken. I gasped in shock and screamed "nooo".

Eta: just walked by another one that was unscrewed and laying askew.

Is there anyone you can report it to?

 

[deugirtni]

Somehow I doublt if LE would be tampering around like that, cutting out a sod patch from elsewhere and then laying it onto the septic lid after the fact.. that kind of behavior could potentially put themselves into a position of having to explain why, and prove that it wasn't there before, etc. I just can't see it, but MOO.

We only have confirmation of the sod patch being on the lid after LE and the worker pumped the tank. We can't assume it was there before. LE could have done some digging around the area and the patch came from another area.

 

[Ransom]

I'm going to search for the story about this little boy who fell in to a septic tank when his dad was busy loading his baby sister and her carseat into a car after a party he and the kids attended. That child was gone in the blink of an eye, no evidence, no one saw it, and he had been seen about 5 minutes before he was suddenly missing. Evidence showed he lifted the lid, squatted on the side of the tank to look in, fell in, and the lid closed behind him. I think this is what happened to Noah. But there is a lot of information still missing in Noah's case.

Updated to add: I can't find it with a google search. The dad was alone with his two kids, it was a party at night, suddenly the boy was gone and the search lasted for days and the boy was found in the septic tank in the front yard days later. I'm sure I followed that case on this website.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...BER-ALERT-Loic-Rogers-3-Kalispell-25-Jan-2007

 

[courtneyb]

I think we would all do a great service to each other if we would realize that we are all JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND. I don't think that anyone speculating on what could have happened is doing it from a place of hoping for the worst. The fact is, the worst has already happened; this sweet boy is gone. The only other fact that we have is that we do not have many facts. If we did, there would be nothing to try to help us figure out the why and the how; to try to wrap our heads around this tragedy and none of us would be here. Let's try to be mindful of why I think most, if not all of us, are here. Wishing all of you and all who loved Noah, or came to love him, comfort.

 

[Tillicum]

If the shovel was sharp it really wouldn't be a problem I don't think. I weigh 122 pounds and I do dig up sodded grass at times and move it to other areas without any problem. I just use my leg and foot as leverage on the shovel as I push it into the ground. And we have very thick St. Augustine grass.

Sounds like I need my shovel sharpened

 

[Tillicum]

I commend the neighbors, landlord, searchers etc. I'm sure there are those who know if there was sod on the lid or if the lid was bolted down just before the tip was received, but they haven't come forward and made the information public. I think they're probably following requests from LE and don't want to do anything to jeopardize the investigation and possible prosecution. It would be very hard to know the answers to the questions of so many and keep it to yourself.

 

[courtneyb]

I think that's what bothers me about LE in this case... They say one thing about rumors and such about the parents, then perpetuate it with their handling of information. If the parents do not have any involvement in this, what a great disservice LE has done to them, in their holding onto the information that could make all of the pointed speculation go away at a time when they just need to grieve. I know that LE does not owe US anything, but if these parents are not culpable in any way, they certainly do owe it to them to not make their impossible situation even harder.

 

[deugirtni]

I think if a new mom killed her firstborn child in a fit of unintentional exhausted rage or something, she wouldn't also have the capacity to think and plan devise theories and go find the shovel, and dig up the sod, and (presumably) unscrew the lid, and carry her beloved dead child to the sewage hole and drop him in there. It's just not a 'mom' thing to do! I would think she would more likely panic and call the husband, tell him what happened, and decide what to do from there.. or.. she could have been a part of a rather elaborate plan from the night before. MOO

Another thing that isn't fitting for me.. is that the mom was so willing to state that she went to sleep in another room for that long while leaving her 5 year old to fend for himself without supervision. Surely she would know that wouldn't be looked upon in a favorable light, and that even if nothing ended up happening to Noah, she was putting both of her children at risk of being taken from her.

It seems to me like people who make mistakes in judgement, might at least attempt to lessen their guilt by saying something like.. 'at 10am, I was feeding the baby and was so exhausted that I inadvertently fell asleep, and when I woke 30 minutes later, at 10;30 he was gone. Her willingness to state that she was not available as a caregiver to her young son for 2 or more hours, makes me wonder if saying *that* was the lesser of two evils. ie.. easier to take the punches that would come from an exhausted mom napping for 2+hours in another room while her 5 y/o happens upon the septic and ends up in a freak accdent.. than it is to say whatever the truth may be, like perhaps that she may be part of a coverup plan to absolve someone else from having lost his cool the night before. JMO

I think it would be difficult but not impossible for a woman to dig up the sod very quickly. I also can't see anyone doing it in broad daylight for fear of the neighbors seeing them.

 

[deugirtni]

From the obit, it doesn't look like there is a lot of family, ie it seems both paternal grandparents are deceased, as well as the maternal grandfather. There is a note about many aunts, uncles, etc., but perhaps they aren't that close with them. Perhaps those people are also uncomfortable with speaking publicly.

I agree with oceanblueeyes' post above when she says that no matter what the parents do, or don't do, or say, or don't say, it's going to get picked apart to become negative. Words are picked out individually, out of context, and pulled apart, and things can be inferred or not inferred from them, to convey guilt for some, innocence for others. I would sure hate to be in their shoes, that is all I know. Some people are intensely private, while some seem to like to entertain the media on a daily basis. Both of those 'types' of parents of missing children get attacked. They really and truly cannot win.

I didn't hear the friend of the family speak. I did hear the aunt and uncle (as I wrote) after the press conference. The aunt and uncle referred to the justice aspect. As I wrote, I find it odd that we don't have family (grandparents, aunts, uncles) speaking about him, about who he was. If this were my nephew or grandson, I would want people to know what he loved, what he did and how he brought light into my life. In many cases, there are these kinds of statements.

Not a requirement for innocence or guilt in my book.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Somehow I doublt if LE would be tampering around like that, cutting out a sod patch from elsewhere and then laying it onto the septic lid after the fact.. that kind of behavior could potentially put themselves into a position of having to explain why, and prove that it wasn't there before, etc. I just can't see it, but MOO.

After they get their photos, measurements, and release the scene so random reporters can roam it, they don't care where things are left. Perhaps to keep another curious child from seeing it, they secured it and put some sod over it as a temporary thing until the landlord makes it a more permanent fix. Or maybe the landlord placed it there. Also it couldn't be considered "tampering" if it was after the scene was released.