GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #3

[deugirtni]

I don't recall ever seeing anything about the family having been seen on Sunday. I only saw that the family was seen on videotape while out in the community on the Saturday evening. Is there a link to any of those original articles where it said 'Sunday' they were confirmed to be seen?

Originally they were clear about Sunday morning surveillance. But the more recent articles have said only surveillance was on Saturday. Here's one source: http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/p...cle_fb880b36-441c-5918-b9e1-6043ec810c94.html

 

[MamaJoJo]

I think if a new mom killed her firstborn child in a fit of unintentional exhausted rage or something, she wouldn't also have the capacity to think and plan devise theories and go find the shovel, and dig up the sod, and (presumably) unscrew the lid, and carry her beloved dead child to the sewage hole and drop him in there. It's just not a 'mom' thing to do! I would think she would more likely panic and call the husband, tell him what happened, and decide what to do from there.. or.. she could have been a part of a rather elaborate plan from the night before. MOO

Another thing that isn't fitting for me.. is that the mom was so willing to state that she went to sleep in another room for that long while leaving her 5 year old to fend for himself without supervision. Surely she would know that wouldn't be looked upon in a favorable light, and that even if nothing ended up happening to Noah, she was putting both of her children at risk of being taken from her.

It seems to me like people who make mistakes in judgement, might at least attempt to lessen their guilt by saying something like.. 'at 10am, I was feeding the baby and was so exhausted that I inadvertently fell asleep, and when I woke 30 minutes later, at 10;30 he was gone. Her willingness to state that she was not available as a caregiver to her young son for 2 or more hours, makes me wonder if saying *that* was the lesser of two evils. ie.. easier to take the punches that would come from an exhausted mom napping for 2+hours in another room while her 5 y/o happens upon the septic and ends up in a freak accdent.. than it is to say whatever the truth may be, like perhaps that she may be part of a coverup plan to absolve someone else from having lost his cool the night before. JMO

I have been mulling this over and over in my mind, too, though I come up with a different rational than you. Why would she fess up to a possible 3 hour window if something happened to Noah the night before? It wouldn't make sense. It only makes sense if it's the truth, IMO. If she knew that Noah wasn't outside Sunday morning, she could have, as you stated above, just said there was a 30 minute window. But, if Noah went missing that morning, anyone could have seen him in the yard (through a window, by a passing car, someone walking their dog, etc) and being truthful is the only way to cover that possibility.

A lesser of two evils wouldn't require her to set herself up for a neglect charge, IMO. The story is that Noah went missing on his own accord (I understand that whatever happened to him after he left the trailer is up for debate). If not true, why take the fall for something when the timeline could have been minimized to 15-30 minutes?

 

[courtneyb]

I have been mulling this over and over in my mind, too., though I come up with a different rational than you. Why would she fess up to a possible 3 hour window if something happened to Noah the night before? It wouldn't make sense. It only makes sense if it's the truth, IMO. If she knew that Noah wasn't outside Sunday morning, she could have, as you stated above, just said there was a 30 minute window. But, if Noah went missing that morning, anyone could have seen him in the yard (through a window, by a passing car, someone walking their dog, etc) and being truthful is the only way to cover that possibility.

Aaagghhh!...that makes sense too. Though My first go round with the nap scenario I couldn't shake the idea that if I didn't want anyone to know what I had been doing for a certain 2-3 hour time frame when something happened, whether it be during an accident or while trying to cover up an accident, (because I can't yet get to where the death was intentional..just not yet) what would I say I had been doing during that time? I'd probably say sleeping with the baby.

 

[deugirtni]

Had the septic lid area already been released by Friday morning?

After they get their photos, measurements, and release the scene so random reporters can roam it, they don't care where things are left. Perhaps to keep another curious child from seeing it, they secured it and put some sod over it as a temporary thing until the landlord makes it a more permanent fix. Or maybe the landlord placed it there. Also it couldn't be considered "tampering" if it was after the scene was released.

 

[mpnola]

Aaagghhh!...that makes sense too. Though My first go round with the nap scenario I couldn't shake the idea that if I didn't want anyone to know what I had been doing for a certain 2-3 hour time frame when something happened, whether it be during an accident or while trying to cover up an accident, (because I can't yet get to where the death was intentional..just not yet) what would I say I had been doing during that time? I'd probably say sleeping with the baby.

Well, and there is still that changing of the timeline thing! First, she reported one time and then it was changed to an earlier time.

 

[courtneyb]

Well, and there is still that changing of the timeline thing! First, she reported one time and then it was changed to an earlier time.

I just know that sleeping is the one way I could claim that I have zero knowledge of anything that happened. I have 4 kids, my youngest is 6 months old. I know that he, nor none of mine, did I feel comfortable lying down to nap with for that period of time... Mine just never napped that long at that age regularly. Not after a full night's sleep, and after only being up for an hour or so.

 

[Meemaw12]

https://www.google.com/search?q=sep...Fseptic-tank-plumbing-diagram-vent%2F;670;317

Not really important but I googled Septic Tank jpg Lots of pics

https://www.google.com/search?q=sep...&ei=RPQZVfCNDYLUgwT0_oKoBg&ved=0CCgQ7Ak&dpr=1


This one shows (among others) that there are 3 layers within a septic tank.

Top layer is scum
Middle layer is water waste
Bottom layer is solid waste

Just thought I would share.

 

[courtneyb]

I just know that sleeping is the one way I could claim that I have zero knowledge of anything that happened. I have 4 kids, my youngest is 6 months old. I know that he, nor none of mine, did I feel comfortable lying down to nap with for that period of time... Mine just never napped that long at that age regularly. Not after a full night's sleep, and after only being up for an hour or so.

Not to mention, I'm scared of what my other kids are doing while I'm sleeping..I once dozed off on the sofa, to be woken up by my 4 year old, who, when my eyes popped open had a kitchen knife ohhh, about 2 inches being brandished from my right eye, chastising me because, "just wook what I found in the dishwasher macheen! Don't you KNOW knifuses are DANGEROUS for wittle kids, Mommy?!" Yep.. Last time I sat down while tired in my house.

 

[deugirtni]

I had to stick in the other part that is disturbing to me about the mom saying how long she'd been sleeping in another room. It just doesn't make sense to me. So many times, we will hear a story here or in the media, about how long a person had turned their back, went to the washroom, loaded something in a trunk, whatever.. and some horrible thing happens.. and most times, I think people suspect, and probably for good reason, that the time line given was likely longer than stated. It's got to be tough to admit that something gruesome happened on your own watch, and I think human denial tries to protect by telling a timeline lie. I just feel like it's human nature. MOO. We know that mom called police around..... seems like as soon as she woke up and noticed him missing, according to the link below, around 10;30am. (Link below also says the Information Officer clarified in a news conference last Wednesday, that mom last saw noah at 7am, so that would make it a 3.5 hour nap! and she readily admits this? It's just off to me. MOO).

Another thing that isn't cutting it for me, is that..... with Noah being almost 6 years old.. he's already in school.. he has friends.. he plays basketball.. mom says the coat and boots are missing.. obviously since he's not in the house, he's outside.. why not go out and look around for him? Why not go to neighbouring homes, knocking on doors, 'have you seen him'.. why call police, 911 emergency, as soon as you notice a child of that age not in the house after you've been sleeping for 3.5 hours? I could see it if he was a toddler, God forbid, but he was almost 6. Seems a little quick to me. MOO.

BBM:

It was initially reported that Noah was last seen between 9 and 9:30 a.m. Sunday. However, at a news conference Wednesday, Assistant Pulaski County Administrator Anthony Akers clarified that Noah was actually last seen by his mother at 7 a.m. watching cartoons. His mother then went and took a nap, and woke up about 10:30 a.m. and noticed Noah was missing.

Akers said the mother did a search of the residence then immediately called 911, and the search began shortly after 11 a.m. That 911 call is not being released at this time since it is still a part of the investigation.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/pulaski_county/search-for-noah-thomas-baffles-officials/article_86971938-fb24-5957-9562-89fb1f087864.html

I have been mulling this over and over in my mind, too, though I come up with a different rational than you. Why would she fess up to a possible 3 hour window if something happened to Noah the night before? It wouldn't make sense. It only makes sense if it's the truth, IMO. If she knew that Noah wasn't outside Sunday morning, she could have, as you stated above, just said there was a 30 minute window. But, if Noah went missing that morning, anyone could have seen him in the yard (through a window, by a passing car, someone walking their dog, etc) and being truthful is the only way to cover that possibility.

A lesser of two evils wouldn't require her to set herself up for a neglect charge, IMO. The story is that Noah went missing on his own accord (I understand that whatever happened to him after he left the trailer is up for debate). If not true, why take the fall for something when the timeline could have been minimized to 15-30 minutes?

 

[deugirtni]

I have a feeling that the timeline thing is going to be a very vital piece of information somehow. I'm not sure where the changing times came from, whether from Mom changing it, or LE misreporting it initially, or MSM reporting incorrectly. Does anyone know?

Well, and there is still that changing of the timeline thing! First, she reported one time and then it was changed to an earlier time.

 

[MamaJoJo]

I had to stick in the other part that is disturbing to me about the mom saying how long she'd been sleeping in another room. It just doesn't make sense to me. So many times, we will hear a story here or in the media, about how long a person had turned their back, went to the washroom, loaded something in a trunk, whatever.. and some horrible thing happens.. and most times, I think people suspect, and probably for good reason, that the time line given was likely longer than stated. It's got to be tough to admit that something gruesome happened on your own watch, and I think human denial tries to protect by telling a timeline lie. I just feel like it's human nature. MOO. We know that mom called police around..... seems like as soon as she woke up and noticed him missing, according to the link below, around 10;30am. (Link below also says the Information Officer clarified in a news conference last Wednesday, that mom last saw noah at 7am, so that would make it a 3.5 hour nap! and she readily admits this? It's just off to me. MOO).

Another thing that isn't cutting it for me, is that..... with Noah being almost 6 years old.. he's already in school.. he has friends.. he plays basketball.. mom says the coat and boots are missing.. obviously since he's not in the house, he's outside.. why not go out and look around for him? Why not go to neighbouring homes, knocking on doors, 'have you seen him'.. why call police, 911 emergency, as soon as you notice a child of that age not in the house after you've been sleeping for 3.5 hours? I could see it if he was a toddler, God forbid, but he was almost 6. Seems a little quick to me. MOO.

BBM:

But she did search for him...for 30 minutes or so...10:35am to just after 11:00am. We don't know if she knocked on doors. She very well could have.

We don't know yet if the parents are involved. God, it's going to be AWFUL if it comes to fruition. But, there is a chance, too, that it was an accident or that Noah died at the hands of another. I feel we can speculate ourselves into believing any scenario we want to. It's a slippery slope.

 

[MamaJoJo]

One thing I was trying to get at in my post up thread is how does the mom benefit from "readily admitting" to a 3.5 hour nap (or however long her nap/sleep was)? What's in it for her?

To cover for herself?
To cover for someone else?
To cover for the possibility of Noah being seen unattended outside that morning?
Because it's the truth and some people tell it?

There is a reason she would put herself in a possibly difficult position regarding neglect.

 

[Meemaw12]

Not sure where I am going with this but have been thinking about it so I will put it out there

We use to have rentals, many rentals. Anytime ANYTHING happened, be it a stopped up commode (no septic tanks), a light that wouldn't turn on, even if the dang light bulb was burnt out, lots of silly things, renters would call us. We would go and fix whatever.

So I am thinking what would the renters do in the white house and Noah's parents do if their commodes stopped up? Would they go to the septic tank to see what was wrong or call the Landlord? I believe they would call the landlord as it would be his responsibility to fix it. I believe the landlord would call a Sanitation co to come and clean the septic tank out. Really no reason to explore the tank without calling them, since the most you would see is scum or maybe toilet paper was clogging the intake pipe, but who would want to clean that out, horrible smell.

I think my point is (I am very tired and sickened by what has happened.) I believe the lid was secure ( I can't imagine a landlord not making sure of that because of liability) it had at least 8 screws that someone had to remove(no sanitation worker would walk away leaving the screws off the lid- another liability.) I can't imagine a renter unscrewing the lid and walking away-for what purpose?

If a tank it cleaned out every yr or so, IMO the screws would be tight if sanitation worker used an electric screwdriver, I can't imagine them using a manual one, who wants to hang around a septic tank putting screws in.

If all the above is true how could a little 5 yr old get the screws out, open the lid and fall in?

I had originally thought maybe on Sat, he saw someone working on the tank, they left the screws out by accident and he went to the lid, opened it and fell in. But now I honestly can't see that happening because of who would be working on the tank.

So that leaves me with someone (and I am not blaming parents because I don't know who) had to remove the screws, open the lid and put that child down the tank.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on the septic tank, lid, screws...

JMO

 

[hockeymom4]

My cousin has a 4 1/2 and 2 1/2 yr old. She randomly was telling me yesterday how last week she needed a nap so badly and she didn't know what to do bc her older one doesn't nap. I told her, call me, I will give you a break. She said she told them both to lay down and she prayed to everyone she knew that they would both sleep. Thirty minutes later they were both down and she got her nap. I was going to ask her about naps bc of this.

Now my other cousin has three...4 1/2, 2 1/2 and 2 months. The baby always sleeps and the middle does on most days. The oldest goes to school in the afternoon, so she can nap when he is gone and the younger two are sleeping. I do know her very very well and know she would never sleep with any children awake in her home. On purpose anyway. She is very sleep deprived bc she works, husband is gone for work, etc. I do know she is of the mindset like me, to not bash others for their choices, to an extent. I think there is a big difference in posters who have said, I am sleep deprived, so I set my son up to watch tv while I slept on the couch with a fully locked and secure house. Upon waking, everyone is happy and healthy. While, I wouldn't do that, I pass no judgement. Their life, their choice and no one was harmed. In the situation with Noah, if the nap occurred and occurred as stated a beautiful child died. Just with the details I have read, it makes me very upset. If this was an accident, it was preventable, obviously. Although, not so sure about accident and much more.

 

[deugirtni]

We don't know.. except that the police said 'she did a search of the 'residence' and then 'immediately' called police. Wake up from a dead sleep (MOO that it would pretty much be a dead sleep if sleeping for 3.5 hours), with baby, go to the bathroom, plug in the kettle.. walk out into the main living area.. notice someone missing.. put baby somewhere safe, hopefully, call out, search all the rooms.. all the nooks an crannies.. maybe look out the windows.. call police? Police statement says 'woke up at 10;30, search residence, immediately call police'... police search begins shortly after 11am. Doesn't say, 'woke up at 10;30, search until 11, and then call police'.

Definitely don't know if the parents are involved yet. Hope not. There is much police aren't sharing.

It was initially reported that Noah was last seen between 9 and 9:30 a.m. Sunday. However, at a news conference Wednesday, Assistant Pulaski County Administrator Anthony Akers clarified that Noah was actually last seen by his mother at 7 a.m. watching cartoons. His mother then went and took a nap, and woke up about 10:30 a.m. and noticed Noah was missing.

Akers said the mother did a search of the residence then immediately called 911, and the search began shortly after 11 a.m. That 911 call is not being released at this time since it is still a part of the investigation.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/pu...b1f087864.html

But she did search for him...for 30 minutes or so...10:35am to just after 11:00am. We don't know if she knocked on doors. She very well could have.

We don't know yet if the parents are involved. God, it's going to be AWFUL if it comes to fruition. But, there is a chance, too, that it was an accident or that Noah died at the hands of another. I feel we can speculate ourselves into believing any scenario we want to. It's a slippery slope.

 

[mpnola]

One thing I was trying to get at in my post up thread is how does the mom benefit from "readily admitting" to a 3.5 hour nap (or however long her nap/sleep was)? What's in it for her?

To cover for herself?
To cover for someone else?
To cover for the possibility of Noah being seen unattended outside that morning?
Because it's the truth and some people tell it?

There is a reason she would put herself in a possibly difficult position regarding neglect.

Well, one big reason I can think of is to give law enforcement a larger radius to have to search. A child you saw 10 minutes ago, you are seeeeriously searching everything within a few blocks. 3 hours for him to roam- that leaves miles of searching. It could be to deflect further from home. Just an idea!

 

[hockeymom4]

We don't know.. except that the police said 'she did a search of the 'residence' and then 'immediately' called police. Wake up from a dead sleep (MOO that it would pretty much be a dead sleep if sleeping for 3.5 hours), with baby, go to the bathroom, plug in the kettle.. walk out into the main living area.. notice someone missing.. put baby somewhere safe, hopefully, call out, search all the rooms.. all the nooks an crannies.. maybe look out the windows.. call police? Police statement says 'woke up at 10;30, search residence, immediately call police'... police search begins shortly after 11am. Doesn't say, 'woke up at 10;30, search until 11, and then call police'.

Definitely don't know if the parents are involved yet. Hope not. There is much police aren't sharing.

When I hear sleeping and/or delays I think of Myra Lewis and Malik Drummond.

Myra Lewis went missing when her mom went to the store and her dad was sleeping. Mom thought he was watching them. Dad woke up and thought she was with mom so didn't know she was missing until mom came home hours later. They searched a bit on their own then called the police. This is according to them. She has been missing over a year. Myra is one that will forever be with me.

Malik Drummond went missing in November. Dad was sleeping and stepmom took a bath and the 2 yr old was gone when she got out. They looked around and then if I recall a neighbor was the one to call 911 with them standing by.

Point being...sleeping is heard often on WS. As well as not calling right away, it does cause an alert to many people because of what has happened in the past, but maybe this time is different.

 

[deugirtni]

By lesser of 2 evils, I had meant.. admit you left your child unattended for THREE AND A HALF HOURS (I had been thinking it was 2 previously!) instead of shortening that timespan to protect oneself from the backlash (and the guilt and self blaming).. is perhaps a lesser evil than telling perhaps what really may or may not have occurred, possibly the night before.

Why? Perhaps large window - really anything could have happened in that long duration of time - NT could have been picked up in a vehicle and travelled 200 miles away by then, and that is *just* counting the sleep time, not even counting that he could still be travelling while the minutes are ticking away while police are called and searching is beginning. Large large window. Imagine a 200 mile radius spanning out from the home address. How would police even know where to begin their search in such a potentially vast area? And if no subsequent tips or leads because no sightings? That really long nap gives a believable excuse for how she didn't notice him potentially missing for 3.5 hours, even though it would at the same time be setting herself up for all of the awful comments and etc. Lesser of 2 evils, with the other evil being to tell what could have potentially happened during the night before.

This is just MOO, but I'm personally having difficulty accepting someone readily admitting to that kind of mistake (very publicly even), and knowing the possible, and many, serious ramifications, without even trying to shorten it somewhat, when there really was nothing to verify the length of tiime in the first place.. I feel like most people would feel so terrible that they would shorten that timeframe, out of denial if nothing else. If it turned out later that a neighbour said, oh yes, I saw him, but hey, it was way before he went missing, it was at 8am.. then take your punches, eat your hat, at that time, 'oh I must have been off wth my time'. I realize that most people are honest, but many people also exaggerate one way or another, or tell white lies, or lies of omission, (the size of fish that got away, how fast one was driving, how much money one spent, how long one left their child unattended, how old one is, how many drinks one had, openly admitting an error that one doesn't really have to admit to since nobody knows the exact specifics about it, etc?)

One thing I was trying to get at in my post up thread is how does the mom benefit from "readily admitting" to a 3.5 hour nap (or however long her nap/sleep was)? What's in it for her?

To cover for herself?
To cover for someone else?
To cover for the possibility of Noah being seen unattended outside that morning?
Because it's the truth and some people tell it?

There is a reason she would put herself in a possibly difficult position regarding neglect.

 

[deugirtni]

Did you read something somewhere about drugs entering the picture? Or just theorizing possibilities?

something is very wrong with these parents
IF. My child was found in a sewer, I would be out of my mind.

Period.
I pray for those who did this to Noah to get the absolute maximum that our laws allow.
DRUGS?

STUPID PEOPLE ON DRUGS?

Killing their children?
THROWING THEM INTO A SEPTIC TANK.....?

I hope not.

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

Who's asking for the specific location? - people are just wondering if the baby remains in the care of the parents, which is an understandable thing to wonder given the situation, IMO.

I'm glad they won't comment on it. Frankly, the location of that infant is not something the public should ever be privy to. It's not information that anyone has the right to know. People should understand that and support children's whereabouts being private. If someone is petty enough to start a rumor about that, then so be it.