GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #5

[Dogface]

Imo, the most interesting part of their charges are the abuse charges for Noah and mom's being a higher felony degree.

With his sister being alive they could visually see if she had been abused by her parents. Or they could have had her checked out by a doctor. Something valid sure made them remove her the day after Noah went missing.

So did the ME find abuse injuries on Noah at the time of autopsy and that is why they were both charged with abuse concerning Noah? That is what intrigues me. What forensic evidence did they find that supports the abuse charges for Noah since abuse is far different than neglect?

Been dealing with life outside of WS so Im likely behind and trying to catch up so if someone has stated this I apologize...IF parents were on drugs, and mom breastfeeding, could that account for her higher charges?

ETA: wait, I must be having a blonde moment, or seriously missed something way back...we know whic charges apply to each child? Like we know moms charge being worse than dads is because of Noah? What am I missing here? Feeling quite dense!

 

[EllieBee]

Do you notice how once a person dies, the people who know them have much more glowing reviews for the type of person they were than they had of them before they died? That Aunt that you only saw at Christmas that was the family busybody suddenly becomes the dearest woman ever after her death. Does that play a part in what you were explaining?

Michael Jackson comes to mind......:notgood:

 

[vasportsmom]

Michael Jackson comes to mind......:notgood:

I shouldn't laugh but I did. It really is amazing what dying did for his image.


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[wendybtn]

In my heart I would like to agree with this, but criminals do things they know they can get the death penalty for...all the time. I'm in Texas, everyone here knows you will get the death penalty for raping and murdering a child, killing your own child, etc...and it's a normal occurrence for these crimes to happen. I am not against the death penalty as a punishment, but I don't believe it will ever be an effective deterrent.

It is not a deterrent because we don't use it consistently and as frequently as we should.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

My number one question, like lilybell, is how did little Noah end up in the septic tank. I know this won't be answered until LE shares more results from the autopsy, or even later. Was Noah deceased before he ended up in there would be second?

I believe he was deceased before he went in the septic tank.

I think there was an accidental death due to parental negligence of some type, or possibly due to a parent administering a substance to him and accidentally overdosing him, and he was placed in the tank in an attempt to hide the wrongdoing.

 

[MzOpinion8d]

I don't have a problem with kids being taken to visit Noah's grave site. Kids are often overlooked in the grieving process and they should be included in all phases. People think shielding children is kind, but it really isn't. They need to grieve like everyone else and feel part of what is going on at the time. It helps them cope just like it does an adult. If we prevent them from going through the process, they grow to hide their feelings because it is what we taught them to do.

I know many people who observe birthdays and holidays after a death. Maybe they see it as being able to do something positive to remember their loved one or maybe it is their faith which leads them to believe there is an afterlife. We each have our own way of coping with death and there is no wrong way to do it...unless it is harmful to someone else.

My brother's kids are 17, 14 and 13, and have never been to a funeral or visitation (wake). He absolutely refuses to expose them to death and I think he's making a big mistake. When the first funeral they attend is of someone they are very close to, it's going to be even harder for them than if they at least understood some of rituals of death and funerals and knew what to expect.

 

[vasportsmom]

My brother's kids are 17, 14 and 13, and have never been to a funeral or visitation (wake). He absolutely refuses to expose them to death and I think he's making a big mistake. When the first funeral they attend is of someone they are very close to, it's going to be even harder for them than if they at least understood some of rituals of death and funerals and knew what to expect.

You're right. The first funeral my 14yo attended was my Dad's 7 years ago and I got a lot of side eyes from relatives for having him there. It was rough on him but when my Grandfather died B was less scared about what was happening because he knew what to expect. Him & my Grandfather were the best of buddies and I can't imagine how things would have turned out if his death & funeral was the first B had faced.


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[Strawberry Fields]

My brother's kids are 17, 14 and 13, and have never been to a funeral or visitation (wake). He absolutely refuses to expose them to death and I think he's making a big mistake. When the first funeral they attend is of someone they are very close to, it's going to be even harder for them than if they at least understood some of rituals of death and funerals and knew what to expect.

Yes you are so right. My sister didn't make her son, 11 and daughter, 10 go to their father's funeral when he died of a sudden heart attack. I remember telling their pastor my sister wasn't insisting they go. That pastor took me aside and said "unless it's a matter of kicking and screaming, you need to get them to this funeral". They ended up not going. My mother, (their grandmother) was taking the daughter to school one morning and she said "I think my daddy is buried somewhere along this road, but I am not sure. Both are grown with their own families now but they should have gone to that funeral. So sad.

My brother's kids are 17, 14 and 13, and have never been to a funeral or visitation (wake). He absolutely refuses to expose them to death and I think he's making a big mistake. When the first funeral they attend is of someone they are very close to, it's going to be even harder for them than if they at least understood some of rituals of death and funerals and knew what to expect.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Sorry for the double quote.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Slightly OT but my husband's family do take their young children to funerals. When my FIL died my SIL's husband was trying to explain to his three small boys on the way to funeral and said "that is just Grandpa's body that you will see in the casket and one of the little boys said "where is Grandpa's head if that is just his body". So it is really difficult to explain death when they are really small.

 

[Tallula.Belle]

May I join you at the table? I understand that people's hearts break for this child but I truly do not understand the pinwheels and bears and balloons, etc. I understand it is a kind gesture but I just don't get it.

Then again, I am super anti-balloon release as it is harmful to the environment and wildlife. I have never understood celebrating a life by littering.

I have a friend whose son overdosed last year at age 17. She leaves things at his grave frequently. She went to the extent of discussing it with the cemetery management company. They are very careful with the items left there. They do have to remove them for lawn maintenance but they never dispose of anything. They save it in a special place. They also prosecute people found stealing from grave sites. I try to be compassionate but I just look at all the stuff left there and I see the wind blowing debris around and I feel like it is a poor way to honor someone. Yep. I am a weirdo.

Move over as I raise my weirdo hand. I have also never understood people buying flowers and stuffed animals and such when celebrities die. Like when Michael Jackson died. I have certainly never felt that calling.

I have always loved true crime and if anyone searched my computer history boy would they be surprised. Ha.

 

[Tallula.Belle]

Do you notice how once a person dies, the people who know them have much more glowing reviews for the type of person they were than they had of them before they died? That Aunt that you only saw at Christmas that was the family busybody suddenly becomes the dearest woman ever after her death. Does that play a part in what you were explaining?

My mother always said that you had to die, before people would praise you and say how wonderful you are. lol

 

[Strawberry Fields]

Also along these lines there are people in my family that will go to the funeral of someone they haven't seen since childhood. It is embarrassing as it seems more like they want to find out what happened to the deceased. If you haven't kept in touch there is usually a reason.

 

[courtneyb]

Also along these lines there are people in my family that will go to the funeral of someone they haven't seen since childhood. It is embarrassing as it seems more like they want to find out what happened to the deceased. If you haven't kept in touch there is usually a reason.

I have a sister that I swear, if she knows someone that MIGHT be related to someone who died, she is at that funeral. I think it's a voyeur type thing with some people.


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[osu]

When my husband passed away in a trucking accident my children were very young. My son was 4 and my daughter just 3 weeks old. At first I was reluctant to take my son to the funeral home, thinking he would just be confused. I was glad that I did though, that after several days of not seeing his father, my son said, "Oh there's my daddy." Like he was so relieved just to know where he was.

I felt he was too young and antsy to sit through the entire funeral service the next day so he stayed home with relatives. I was glad that I decided to take him to the calling hours to be able to see his daddy one last time.

 

[Strawberry Fields]

So sorry for your loss. My own father died in an automobile accident when I was two and sister was 5 yrs. I have not a single memory of him. I think my sister was taken to visitation but not funeral. Hardest thing for me growing up without my father was things like being in Sunday school and teacher asking about my father. My mom taught me to say "my father is deceased". I was too young to understand but I was so extremely uncomfortable by the shock that would be expressed by teachers.

 

[osu]

So sorry for your loss. My own father died in an automobile accident when I was two and sister was 5 yrs. I have not a single memory of him. I think my sister was taken to visitation but not funeral. Hardest thing for me growing up without my father was things like being in Sunday school and teacher asking about my father. My mom taught me to say "my father is deceased". I was too young to understand but I was so extremely uncomfortable by the shock that would be expressed by teachers.

I'm so sorry for your loss. :heartbeat:
The loss of their father at such a young age was very hard on my kids too. They are grown now (in their early 30's), and I know that it still affects them to this day.

 

[Steleheart]

So sorry for your loss. My own father died in an automobile accident when I was two and sister was 5 yrs. I have not a single memory of him. I think my sister was taken to visitation but not funeral. Hardest thing for me growing up without my father was things like being in Sunday school and teacher asking about my father. My mom taught me to say "my father is deceased". I was too young to understand but I was so extremely uncomfortable by the shock that would be expressed by teachers.

I'm so sorry for your loss. :heartbeat:
The loss of their father at such a young age was very hard on my kids too. They are grown now (in their early 30's), and I know that it still affects them to this day.

I understand my friends, I really do. My Dad passed away when I was 10 - it was on my birthday. At that time the wake was 3 days all day and then the funeral. The suppers each night, the crowds in the house and then the huge gathering after the burial far into the night. It was a nightmare. I had been to my grandmother's wakes before that @ age 7 and 9 but only that short intro and brief discussions of relating life ending and beginning in relation to my younger siblings being born. Those went well. I felt a loss and we moved on. I never felt overwhelmed or misunderstood.

My Dad, however was different. In 1965, families were considered complete with a stay-at-home Mom and a working dad. Anything else was a 'broken" home. Without a Dad it was a tragedy. We were now the men, my older brothers and me.

"Stay strong" they told me. "stand up straight and be strong and make Dad proud." Us little men did the best we could. And we did. Children need responsibility and a sense of being needed. Unfortunately grieving, with regard to children was sorely lacking. "It's up to you guys, be good". Well sometime in my thirties I got some help with that. I finally was able to feel the loss, the confusion, the anger, the denial and finally the acceptance - all the stages of grief that every person needs to experience.

This, though, also feels wrong. Over the top - selfish and uninformed like the past only different. This total immersion makes me uncomfortable.

:cow:

 

[EllieBee]

You're right. The first funeral my 14yo attended was my Dad's 7 years ago and I got a lot of side eyes from relatives for having him there. It was rough on him but when my Grandfather died B was less scared about what was happening because he knew what to expect. Him & my Grandfather were the best of buddies and I can't imagine how things would have turned out if his death & funeral was the first B had faced.


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{{{hugs}}}

 

[EllieBee]

When my husband passed away in a trucking accident my children were very young. My son was 4 and my daughter just 3 weeks old. At first I was reluctant to take my son to the funeral home, thinking he would just be confused. I was glad that I did though, that after several days of not seeing his father, my son said, "Oh there's my daddy." Like he was so relieved just to know where he was.

I felt he was too young and antsy to sit through the entire funeral service the next day so he stayed home with relatives. I was glad that I decided to take him to the calling hours to be able to see his daddy one last time.

{{{hugs}}} to you. My sister lost her husband while pregnant with their first child.

I witnessed her grief, and I empathize with yours.