GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #5

[ANonyMs]

Do they not have a COD yet? I wish we knew the details of the charges against the parents. This case seems so confusing and murky. Hopefully justice will be served for little Noah soon.
Poor child deserved so much more.

Nope - unfortunately, no COD has bee released yet. The Final Autopsy Report with COD, MOD, etc has not been released. At the press conference on April 2 when the Sherrif and Commonwealth Attorney announced the arrests, Mike Fleenor, the CA, stated it could be weeks or even months until the scientific tests are completed.

 

[wendybtn]

And why state that your fingerprints are all over the lid and poles?? That's all I'm going to say about that. Zipping my lips.

Except, haha, is did they also tell LE what other items they touched while searching had their prints on it?


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Because they thought if LE found Noah in the septic tank, and found their fingerprints on the lid or those poles, they could be suspects, perhaps?

 

[ANonyMs]

Video of sanitation worker interview, I believe he talks about bolts attached to lid.

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http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/sanitation-technician-describes-discovery-of-noah-thomas/32052894

Sorry forgot link


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I re-watched the video you linked to. The bolts are never mentioned in the video, nor in the actual interview portion with the septic worker. He mentions that agents removed the lid before he got there, saw sludge, and put the lid back on. The sanitation workers says he "pulled the lid off".

However, it does touch upon some of the very points Orlando Salinas shared again in his Facebook post AND they show an image of a lid (similar lid?). It is easy to see that it is plastic, not very technically engineered, and has spaces (loops or holes) along the outside for screws or bolts to attach. Not large, heavy duty ones, just the same size you might use in assembling something inside your own home.

For people wondering about how the lid bolts down, this video is worth a quick look.

I will go find the link but I am all but certain they actually said they already looked in the tank once before, saw nothing of note, replaced the lid and moved on.

I agree that is seems unreasonable they would have left him in there. I should have phrased my post differently. It seemed to me that was something the reporter was questioning. If the fact is that sludge build up could be mistaken for something has hard and large as a body, then the LEO who checked the tank in that manner wasn't really doing an effective job of it.

No way LE would have left Noah in there one hour longer than necessary...if not just for humane reasons, but for evidence purposes. The sooner a body is found, the better chance to find evidence.

I don't know if I am convinced by this latest report...but I have always wondered if LE could be covering up the fact that they had opened the tank earlier in the search and just had not drained it until much later in the week. They seem to have avoided answering that question, straight out, Imo.

In the above linked video, Orlando Salinas specifically says that he asked if they had searched the tank previously and the response he got back was that info was not conveyed to their Public Information Officer and it is part of the ongoing investigation.

Here is another report that says the area was searched several times, but does not specifically address the septic tank. I stand corrected.
http://www.wset.com/story/28630975/...ases-statement-regarding-death-of-noah-thomas

 

[ANonyMs]

Because they thought if LE found Noah in the septic tank, and found their fingerprints on the lid or those poles, they could be suspects, perhaps?

Yeah, but when everyone thinks they are looking for a lost child who *just* disappeared, why are fingerprints one of the first things that come to mind?

My guess might be that as they are explaining it to LE, someone in LE may have asked them what they touched just so they can have a frame of reference b/c at that point, two randoms have just run unfettered in to an active search area and started touching things and moving things. I really want to believe that these two men are truly just good folks trying to help and that the strange comment about fingers prints is just due to the manner in which the story is told.

 

[Ms Suzanne]

Because they thought if LE found Noah in the septic tank, and found their fingerprints on the lid or those poles, they could be suspects, perhaps?

Well,if they knew this after the fact.Why did they even touch them in the first place? I am very interested more in their story and who they are.

 

[arkansasmimi]

I believe that the layout of the property has 3 houses on it, or 2 houses and a mobile home, kind of in a loose triangular fashion. I wonder if they collectively referred to the space where the kids played in between all the houses, the "backyard"?


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That's what I am thinking... also, the way the mobile home is pulled in, the "front" door may be on the side opposite the road, making the "back yard" the area between it and the white house. Either way I think your right.

 

[arkansasmimi]

I found it interesting in the orly FB post, sanitation worker said there was 3 feet of sludge in bottom and he said the tanks usually get 1 foot per 5 yrs. sounds like this tank hasn't been cleaned 15 yrs...odd imo

So if tank is 5 1/2 feet deep, 3 feet of sludge, that leaves 2 1/2 feet that lil Noah was in. The tank was 8'x?x5 1/2' deep.

I guess his lil body moved to other end of tank, the 2 men were searching with the rods close in time to his disappearance though.

I don't know guess we have to wait....


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JMO>>> But I think that would be for a normal 1 house hold septic tank. This Septic tank per Courtney cousin April, at least Noah home and the white house were attached to the same septic tank 1000 gal. This make me think even more that with the moving around with the poles maybe it cause his clothing to get the pipe clogged up and the tank unable to drain. But the system still having waste inter in.

And as far as the men telling LEO or whomever that their finger prints were on the lid and rods. My neighbors home and I all look out for one another. Last fall one of them was out of town and few days after gone their home was broken into and I had to call them and then the police. But prior to the break in, I checked the doors daily making sure the home was secure. I did tell them that my finger prints would be on there because of that. That's why even though it may seem odd to others reading that from the fb article, it made sense to me in an honest way. I wanted LEO to know that my prints would be on the door handles. These men, possibly did for same reason. I don't know who they are and if their prints would be on there for any other reason but can see them alerting and wanting to known. Especially in hindsight.

 

[arkansasmimi]

The tank was installed in 2002, so it has not even been operational for 15 years. Tank size is usually rated on the number of bedrooms and they count 2 occupants to a bedroom. Maybe Courtney could ask Angel how many bedrooms are in the white house? My point is, that size tank is typically rated for 2-3 bedrooms 4-6 occupants, 1-2 bathrooms. So if more occupants were using it, then it would fill much faster.

That's what I have been saying too. Courtney said early in thread 2 that the 2 homes shared septic tank. 1000 gal, from what I saw when I tried to find info said mostly a 3 bdroom home. According to Finding Noah fb, March 24th comment from Landlord dtr, one of the Admins on that fb page, Noah had live there since a newborn. And evidently many people from area had rented from the landlord. He lived next to the white house and the drive to Noah home had long drive between the homes. Think of how much 1 family uses water.. toilets, sinks, washing machine, shower... all that drains into the septic, unless you have washer diverted to other pipes to drain (neighbor in my parents area has theirs set up like that so doesn't fill up the tank as fast) But with 2 homes going into 1 tank that is orig for 1 home, it would build up faster. That's why I also wonder if there had been issues with the tank prior to Noah missing. Could the lid not have been properly closed and he actually did fall in? If he did fall in, and drown as has been prev stated multi times, his lungs would show that.

"In a face to face interview, I was told the time was around 11:20 AM when these two people arrived on Highland Road in Dublin. I'm told initially the concern was that possibly the Thomas' landlord had suffered a heart attack. The landlord I'm told, quickly conveyed that he was fine but that #NoahThomas was missing and could not be found.

I'm told that just after 11:20 AM, March 22nd after learning the search was on for a 5 year old little boy, these two people raced into the backyard. They told me they knew that every yard in that area of Highland Road had a septic tank and if left uncovered, a child could fall into it."

"While officers were inside the home, the two adults were outside, saw the septic tank and ran to it.

I asked "Was the lid on or off?"

"The lid was on, but it popped off like a Tupperware lid Orly. It popped right off."

I'm told the men looked inside the 1000 gallon tank and saw it was full. The stench was overpowering. They looked around and saw what appeared to be two metal poles nearby. They grabbed those poles and put them inside the eight- by four- by five and a half foot septic tank. They began probing vigorously yet tenderly, knowing a little boys body could be inside the dark water."

**side note, one of the comments under the reporters posts, says that "There are cameras where he was dropped off for work. All over the place " I remember seeing and asking about video that was suppose to have been from Sunday morning... then we heard of Video from Saturday night. It was confusing. Maybe the Sunday video would be from the workplace of Dad? So it possible that they could tell if Noah was or wasn't in the car that morning. Which could possibly reflect on the charges since Dad was charged on the day of disappearance for both kiddos. ** still bugs me that the Grade for both his charges are diff.

 

[arkansasmimi]

Just assuming here but I would say LE brought him home or a co-worker was allowed to leave and drive him home under the circumstances. No big mystery, IMO.

I thinking LEO wouldn't have had time to go get the dad since they got there quickly and was trying to figure out what was going on. BUT, with the mom getting ahold of the Landlord and the Landlord being there (per landlord dtr) when mom called police, very possible that the Landlord sent someone to pick him up. Thinking to myself this would be the time that Dad was informed at work. Just I had never seen it posted when the Dad arrived back home, as far as timeline of sorts goes.

 

[arkansasmimi]

I went back and reread the Landlord dtr comment on the Finding Noah page, states that "because of him (her Dad), and many friends that are officers (even sheriff) had many cops including dogs, searching within an hour" She states that her dad walks with a cane most days due to back problems, but had been searching for Noah nonstop, since Noahs mom called realizing he was missing.

I curious too who the men were, mostly because of that post... maybe off duty LEO? Jmo thinking out loud...

 

[Tallula.Belle]

JMO>>> But I think that would be for a normal 1 house hold septic tank. This Septic tank per Courtney cousin April, at least Noah home and the white house were attached to the same septic tank 1000 gal. This make me think even more that with the moving around with the poles maybe it cause his clothing to get the pipe clogged up and the tank unable to drain. But the system still having waste inter in.

And as far as the men telling LEO or whomever that their finger prints were on the lid and rods. My neighbors home and I all look out for one another. Last fall one of them was out of town and few days after gone their home was broken into and I had to call them and then the police. But prior to the break in, I checked the doors daily making sure the home was secure. I did tell them that my finger prints would be on there because of that. That's why even though it may seem odd to others reading that from the fb article, it made sense to me in an honest way. I wanted LEO to know that my prints would be on the door handles. These men, possibly did for same reason. I don't know who they are and if their prints would be on there for any other reason but can see them alerting and wanting to known. Especially in hindsight.

I can't understand why these two men are being looked at in a negative manner. In any investigation I would want it known my prints were there.

 

[Tallula.Belle]

I went back and reread the Landlord dtr comment on the Finding Noah page, states that "because of him (her Dad), and many friends that are officers (even sheriff) had many cops including dogs, searching within an hour" She states that her dad walks with a cane most days due to back problems, but had been searching for Noah nonstop, since Noahs mom called realizing he was missing.

I curious too who the men were, mostly because of that post... maybe off duty LEO? Jmo thinking out loud...

I think that or either volunteer firefighters. When my grandma was alive I had to call 911 a couple of times and each time one of the volunteers showed up first. They usually have scanners in their home and cars. Especially since it said they were afraid the landlord was ill.

 

[mpnola]

I dont want to say this. I dont want to say this. I dont want to say this. Ok, I'm going to say it---

my first thought about the poles is that they were initially used to push him down.

Ugh. Ok. I said it.

 

[bellesnwhistles]

I dont want to say this. I dont want to say this. I dont want to say this. Ok, I'm going to say it---

my first thought about the poles is that they were initially used to push him down.

Ugh. Ok. I said it.

But if that's the case would they have just left them laying there? I'm not sure. That would be really careless.

 

[BrownRice]

But if that's the case would they have just left them laying there? I'm not sure. That would be really careless.

IMO only- I believe the parents put him there and were high on drugs. My thought is this was an accident and they were scrambling to cover the evidence. Due to the drugs, they wouldn't have been working on highly functioning brains at the time. Probably freaking out somebody may see them at any time and were just trying to get it done ASAP. And after the fact, they wouldn't want to be seen over there, so they would have had to leave the metal poles there.

 

[BrownRice]

Regarding all the comments about people going to the grave and placing mementos, etc and taking pictures. I think it's a little weird for strangers to bring their kids and then take pictures and post on Facebook. But, they probably mean well. Since it doesn't appear Noah's family is looking out for him (I would have thought somebody would have intervened if he was living in a neglectful environment with drugs - my opinion only), I think it's nice Tabitha and Dawn (the admins from the FB pages) have kind of adopted his gravesite. But it does appear to be getting a little weird.

With that said, I wish people would take the stance of "paying it forward" instead of buying flowers and trinkets for strangers' graves/memorial sites when they die. My oldest son's birthday is close to Christmas. When he died as a young child, every year at Christmas I take a tag off an "Angel Tree" at the local mall and buy a toy for a boy his age (the age he would have been at that time). But paying it forward doesn't have to be monetary either - just doing a random act of kindness in the person's honor. And with Social Media, if people see the need to have it publicized, honor the person that way (i.e. "I shoveled Mrs. Davis' walkway #neverforgetNoah"). I think that has a more meaningful effect than a cluttered gravesite.

 

[skinnycat]

The discovery of Noah in the septic tank makes me so sad, and very angry, how could a parent place a child whether alive or not in a septic tank,

Far to often we hear of parents whom have killed their children, once the poor children are deceased is when all the stories start to come out about the neglect and abuse that the child had suffered before they were murdered. I don't understand why people don't come forward and report the abuse and neglect before it comes to murder. People seem to be afraid to talk until after the tragedy just like the case of the 2 poor kids found in the freezer, people knew the mother was unstable yet no one checked on the children for 2 years. Some innocent children are forced to live horrendous lives,

There are so many unanswered questions in this case, the biggest one I have is how well was that septic checked on day 1 and why wasn't it pumped then if it was so full and you couldn't see to the bottom. When a child is reported missing a full search of where they went missing from should be mandatory, if they can't see to the bottom of the septic tank then it should be pumped. It makes me so mad that he was in there so long.

I sure hope that Noah's autopsy shows that he was passed before he was put in the septic tank,

 

[cvillemegan]

When I was 5 years old, I knew, logically, that stuffed animals and dolls didn't have feelings...but some part of me wondered if maybe they did. So I was very diligent about, for example, if my doll fell off my bed, I would pick her up and give her a hug and tell her I was sorry. The idea of stuffed animals sitting on a grave not being loved and being exposed to the elements would have made me sad. I would have wanted them to have gone to other kids instead so they could be loved.

April is Child Abuse Prevention Month. If people want to make a difference in Noah's name, they could donate to causes that focus on child abuse prevention and work with abused kids and make sure they know what signs to look for in other kids. JMO.

About the septic tank...what I don't understand is, the average American home uses 400 gallons of water per day (source: http://www.epa.gov/WaterSense/pubs/indoor.html). So is there a drain in the tank that keeps the solid stuff in but the liquid goes back into the ground? Wouldn't that contaminate the ground and groundwater with all kinds of bacteria?

 

[vasportsmom]

Regarding all the comments about people going to the grave and placing mementos, etc and taking pictures. I think it's a little weird for strangers to bring their kids and then take pictures and post on Facebook. But, they probably mean well. Since it doesn't appear Noah's family is looking out for him (I would have thought somebody would have intervened if he was living in a neglectful environment with drugs - my opinion only), I think it's nice Tabitha and Dawn (the admins from the FB pages) have kind of adopted his gravesite. But it does appear to be getting a little weird.

With that said, I wish people would take the stance of "paying it forward" instead of buying flowers and trinkets for strangers' graves/memorial sites when they die. My oldest son's birthday is close to Christmas. When he died as a young child, every year at Christmas I take a tag off an "Angel Tree" at the local mall and buy a toy for a boy his age (the age he would have been at that time). But paying it forward doesn't have to be monetary either - just doing a random act of kindness in the person's honor. And with Social Media, if people see the need to have it publicized, honor the person that way (i.e. "I shoveled Mrs. Davis' walkway #neverforgetNoah"). I think that has a more meaningful effect than a cluttered gravesite.

I am so sorry about your son. I absolutely love your way of honoring him by paying it forward though. Blessing another child in Noah's memory is so much lovelier than leaving trinkets on his grave for the weather to destroy.


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[vasportsmom]

I can't understand why these two men are being looked at in a negative manner. In any investigation I would want it known my prints were there.

On first reading it seemed hinky to me because, at that point, it was assumed that Noah had wandered off so concern over clearing oneself was odd. However, by the time LE was directed to the septic tank these men thought they had felt something unusual during their poke-a-thon so it makes more sense, in that context, to have concerns over contaminated evidence.
Knowing who the men are is going to make a huge difference in my mind though. I want to know if they have a connection to P&A.


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