GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #5

[lonetraveler]

I don't see how the autopsy will determine whether or not he fell into the tank...that part should have been obvious by whatever the position of the lid was when he was finally found. Yes, they can determine if he was already deceased, etc...but still,they should know by now whether he was placed in there or not. Jmo

I suspect they do know whether he was placed there or not, living or dead. They are waiting for the tox screen to confirm if COD is from an overdose or not prior to him entering the septic tank (by whatever means). JMO

 

[iamnotagolem]

I don't know as I don't have access to all the facts.

I was asking what your opinion was....clearly we don't have all the facts or there would be no discussion, we'd know what happened and wouldn't have to wonder.

 

[KristiA]

And in that time frame, the baby development a respiratory illness.

And a "serious" one.

 

[courtneyb]

Edited to not give myself a headache. [emoji57]

 

[ANonyMs]

IMO ,an accidental dose of heroin would have been better for Noah then dying in that septic tank but as far as "IF" the parents had gave him heroin and he died from that then throw the book at those two parents and charge them to H E double toothpicks.

I guess I am just not making the connection. You stated,"I'm thinking that the rumor that Noah died from an accidental heroin overdose was probably true.I know this sounds bad,but for Noahs sake I'd rather he had died that way,then to think he had fell in that septic tank and drowned in that dark,stinky sewage.
The parents were pretty stupid thinking that they would get away with hiding him in the septic tank.They just created more problems for themselves."

So, that was actually your opinion as to what happened. So, if I snip the emotional part...the part about what you hope happened, and just leave what you state as your opinion, it would read like this:

"I'm thinking that the rumor that Noah died from an accidental heroin overdose was probably true.{respectfully snipped}
The parents were pretty stupid thinking that they would get away with hiding him in the septic tank.They just created more problems for themselves."

I hope that is a fair "snip"...I don't want to take your words out of context.

But in this thread, yesterday and today, you've said,

So far I do not see 2 dangerous criminals here.I see 2 young parents who made some bad parenting choices that they will have to live with the rest of their lives.We still don't know the whole story.
For all we know maybe the kids were sleeping and they didn't want to wake them up and thought it would be safe to leave them in the few minutes they'd be gone.Maybe they only smoked their pot late at night in the bedroom.Maybe mom just didn't realize how bad of a cold the baby had.
This is so sad for all involved.

Neglect that led to his death could be that they left him home unattended which caused his death.
Nobody still knows how he ended up in the septic tank.It has not been confirmed that it wasn't an accident.

But if they didn't know Noah was in the septic tank then theres nothing more that could be done other than calling and reporting him missing which is what they did.

IMO, neither parent looked like heavy drug users in their pictures.They did look like they were mentally exhausted,and tired though.

So, I am just wondering where your change of heart came from? Because these seem like two very disparate opinions or frames of mind. Just wondering if maybe there was some specific piece of evidence that came out between then and now that led you to change your opinion. Maybe knowing what led you to change your mind might help me understand your perspective.

 

[Mollyandme]

I just got caught up and am shocked at some of the stuff I am reading. You do NOT leave an infant and a 5 year old home alone. It is neglect. Yes I understand there's no set age in the law, you can argue that until you are blue in the face but it doesn't replace good old fashioned common sense. I once had a case where a parent left their ten year old deaf and blind child home alone. She was prosecuted. Yes the child was ten which some might think is ok based only on age, but due to the fact that she was blind and deaf it was not ok. This is where common sense prevails. Are we really lacking so much common sense that we need everything written in the form of a law down to the very last detail? I am disgusted. There is a time and place for people to play devils advocate but really some of this is bordering on ridiculous. Noah did not put the lid of the septic Tank back on, to suggest this, especially since we now know what type of lid it was, is really insulting. There is a reason the judge said in court that it would not be okay for Ashley to be in a home with an 11 year old child when her bond was denied.


And one last thing...I had my appendix out last week which is why I have been MIA. We are currently in a city with no family members due to my husbands job but thankfully will be moving back to the east coast in a few months. I woke up at 2 am in excruciating pain and knew it was my appendix. The hospital is five minutes away. We didn't leave three kids all under age 3 home alone. My husband got them all up, put them in their car seats , and they all dropped me off at the hospital. This is what a typical parent does, it should not even be a second thought. And believe me, I am not super mom, just a mom like all of us on here who loves her kids and figuring it out as i go with their health and safety being most important.

Oh and in terms of the baby's respiratory illness, I'm not going to speculate on what it was but when a child is removed from the home, they are always taken for a doctors visit by CPS if going into foster care, at least in the state i used to work in. It's also not difficult for a person to tell if a baby or child is ill, you don't need to be a doctor or nurse to know a sick baby or child when you see one. Hopefully the doctor or hospital visit (not sure where she was take ) shed more light into what she was suffering from.

Thank you to all the wonderful posters on here for keeping those of us who haven't posted in awhile up to date. It is much appreciated!

 

[tresptip]

I guess I am just not making the connection. You stated,"I'm thinking that the rumor that Noah died from an accidental heroin overdose was probably true.I know this sounds bad,but for Noahs sake I'd rather he had died that way,then to think he had fell in that septic tank and drowned in that dark,stinky sewage.
The parents were pretty stupid thinking that they would get away with hiding him in the septic tank.They just created more problems for themselves."

So, that was actually your opinion as to what happened. So, if I snip the emotional part...the part about what you hope happened, and just leave what you state as your opinion, it would read like this:

"I'm thinking that the rumor that Noah died from an accidental heroin overdose was probably true.{respectfully snipped}
The parents were pretty stupid thinking that they would get away with hiding him in the septic tank.They just created more problems for themselves."

I hope that is a fair "snip"...I don't want to take your words out of context.

But in this thread, yesterday and today, you've said,








So, I am just wondering where your change of heart came from? Because these seem like two very disparate opinions or frames of mind. Just wondering if maybe there was some specific piece of evidence that came out between then and now that led you to change your opinion. Maybe knowing what led you to change your mind might help me understand your perspective.

Just having doubts about Noah having died from a drug overdose,no evidence.Its really hard to form an opinion without being a detective on the case and having access to all the info.

 

[courtneyb]

I just got caught up and am shocked at some of the stuff I am reading. You do NOT leave an infant and a 5 year old home alone. It is neglect. Yes I understand there's no set age in the law, you can argue that until you are blue in the face but it doesn't replace good old fashioned common sense. I once had a case where a parent left their ten year old deaf and blind child home alone. She was prosecuted. Yes the child was ten which some might think is ok based only on age, but due to the fact that she was blind and deaf it was not ok. This is where common sense prevails. Are we really lacking so much common sense that we need everything written in the form of a law down to the very last detail? I am disgusted. There is a time and place for people to play devils advocate but really some of this is bordering on ridiculous. Noah did not put the lid of the septic Tank back on, to suggest this, especially since we now know what type of lid it was, is really insulting. There is a reason the judge said in court that it would not be okay for Ashley to be in a home with an 11 year old child when her bond was denied.


And one last thing...I had my appendix out last week which is why I have been MIA. We are currently in a city with no family members due to my husbands job but thankfully will be moving back to the east coast in a few months. I woke up at 2 am in excruciating pain and knew it was my appendix. The hospital is five minutes away. We didn't leave three kids all under age 3 home alone. My husband got them all up, put them in their car seats , and they all dropped me off at the hospital. This is what a typical parent does, it should not even be a second thought. And believe me, I am not super mom, just a mom like all of us on here who loves her kids and figuring it out as i go with their health and safety being most important.

Oh and in terms of the baby's respiratory illness, I'm not going to speculate on what it was but when a child is removed from the home, they are always taken for a doctors visit by CPS if going into foster care, at least in the state i used to work in. It's also not difficult for a person to tell if a baby or child is ill, you don't need to be a doctor or nurse to know a sick baby or child when you see one. Hopefully the doctor or hospital visit (not sure where she was take ) shed more light into what she was suffering from.

Thank you to all the wonderful posters on here for keeping those of us who haven't posted in awhile up to date. It is much appreciated!

Hope you are feeling better!

 

[ANonyMs]

What are you talking about?She did call and reported him missing.Again you are making things up that haven't even been proven.

I am making things up that haven't been proven? She failed to do the bare minimum when she LIED TO LE. Period. Any other falsehoods you care to attribute to me?

 

[ANonyMs]

Just having doubts about Noah having died from a drug overdose,no evidence.Its really hard to form an opinion without being a detective on the case and having access to all the info.

That's fair. You are entitled to change your opinion. And I agree that it is hard to form an opinion without being a detective on the case and not having all of the info. But I hope you would make the same allowances for everyone else posting here, as well.

 

[tresptip]

I'm done stating my opinion.

 

[Mollyandme]

I am making things up that haven't been proven? She failed to do the bare minimum when she LIED TO LE. Period. Any other falsehoods you care to attribute to me?

Anonyms, i just wanted to say I appreciate all of your thoughtful posts and agree with all you have said. These parents lied and obviously the judge who I'm sure has seen all the evidence so far, agrees with your viewpoint and that of many on here. Thank you for your contributions

 

[courtneyb]

That's fair. You are entitled to change your opinion. And I agree that it is hard to form an opinion without being a detective on the case and not having all of the info. But I hope you would make the same allowances for everyone else posting here, as well.

Agreed! Differences in opinions are encouraged! But, also respectfulness and allowing each other to express thoughts and opinions without scorn and inciting scorn is necessary for a productive discussion. Thank you for this.

 

[tresptip]

That's fair. You are entitled to change your opinion. And I agree that it is hard to form an opinion without being a detective on the case and not having all of the info. But I hope you would make the same allowances for everyone else posting here, as well.

I don't own the forum,nor control what they allow or what the mods do.

 

[Mollyandme]

That's fair. You are entitled to change your opinion. And I agree that it is hard to form an opinion without being a detective on the case and not having all of the info. But I hope you would make the same allowances for everyone else posting here, as well.

This exactly. None of us know all the facts so far or the evidence but the judge does and for her to deny bond and make that statement that it wouldn't be appropriate for Ashley to be in the home with an 11 year old child speaks volumes.

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

Anonyms, i just wanted to say I appreciate all of your thoughtful posts and agree with all you have said. These parents lied and obviously the judge who I'm sure has seen all the evidence so far, agrees with your viewpoint and that of many on here. Thank you for your contributions

Yes...very much appreciated. A five year old is dead and the parents did something so bad the Judge denied bond. Not a mere oops case. Jmo

 

[ANonyMs]

I just got caught up and am shocked at some of the stuff I am reading. You do NOT leave an infant and a 5 year old home alone. It is neglect.

{snipped for brevity}

Thank you to all the wonderful posters on here for keeping those of us who haven't posted in awhile up to date. It is much appreciated!

Hope you are on the mend!!!! I agree that there must have been an actual doctors exam at some point. CPS doesn't usually wing it. (Or at least I hope not!!!!!!!)

 

[Mollyandme]

Just having doubts about Noah having died from a drug overdose,no evidence.Its really hard to form an opinion without being a detective on the case and having access to all the info.

It might not have been a drug overdose, but whatever it was he didn't close the lid of that septic tank by himself

 

[iamnotagolem]

There's potluck too.. Lots of casseroles!

Personally delivered I'll assume.

 

[courtneyb]

It might not have been a drug overdose, but whatever it was he didn't close the lid of that septic tank by himself

I think we can all agree that it has been stated repeatedly that the lid was on.

I'd like to know if anything happened after November 2014 as far as maintenance to the septic tank or something, that would have made removing the layer of sod necessary, exposing the lid. Because until that point, the lid would have had to been accessed by using a shovel to cut through the layer of sod/grass on top of it.

Has anyone heard of any such maintenance having been done between November 2014 and March of this year?