GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #6

[atthelake]

In court Wednesday, a prosecutor said new medical examinations revealed the daughter was born on drugs and has a condition called Neonatal Abstinence Syndrome. The U. S. National Library of Medicine defines the condition as "a group of problems that occur in a newborn who was exposed to addictive opiate drugs while in the mother’s womb."

http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/new...oah-thomas-to-seek-bond-on-wednesday/32633726

That's new info to me! So the little one was born addicted. Poor baby.
I'm pleased that bond has been denied on both of them.

:gasp:

 

[mamame]

"The Guttmacher Institute reported that 4 states (Iowa, Kentucky, Minnesota, and North Dakota) require health care professionals to test for prenatal drug exposure when prenatal drug abuse is suspected, and 14 states (Alaska, Arizona, Illinois, Iowa, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, Utah, and Virginia) require reporting women to child protective services (CPS) for prenatal substance use. However, a recent federal law (No: 108-36) attempts to create a uniform state response to prenatal substance abuse. "

Interesting stuff at this link: http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/978763-differential

ETA: I wonder if the more severe charge on AW was actually related to the baby, and to using a substance while pregnant, and not sweet Noah after all?

 

[Aeronomy]

ETA: I wonder if the more severe charge on AW was actually related to the baby, and to using a substance while pregnant, and not sweet Noah after all?

Maybe, but I thought I'd seen it written somewhere that the prosecutor stated the more severe charge had to do with Noah.

ETA: Found the link that states "In court Wednesday, Fleenor said that White is charged with that section because “it is the commonwealth’s theory that neglect resulted in the death of a child.” http://www.roanoke.com/news/crime/p...cle_16355b8b-6e9d-5408-b5f5-52697738366e.html

 

[mamame]

Good memory! Thanks!

 

[AnnaGrace]

Maybe, but I thought I'd seen it written somewhere that the prosecutor stated the more severe charge had to do with Noah.

ETA: Found the link that states "In court Wednesday, Fleenor said that White is charged with that section because “it is the commonwealth’s theory that neglect resulted in the death of a child.” http://www.roanoke.com/news/crime/p...cle_16355b8b-6e9d-5408-b5f5-52697738366e.html

According to arrest warrants filed in Pulaski County Juvenile and Domestic Relations Court, Ashley White showed "reckless disregard for human life," and "caused serious injuries." In the report it also said "Incident ultimately led to Noah's death," and "Cause or permit to life or health of child by a willfull act, omission, or refusal to provide necessary care."

http://www.wsls.com/story/28706014/...ide-update-on-noah-thomas-death-investigation

 

[wvsoccermom]

http://m.pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/134/2/e547.abstract.
It says that morphine is commonly given to treat babies with this syndrome. If she managed to give birth without anyone knowing the baby was addicted...got home with a cranky baby...decided to treat the baby herself? That would explain the respiratory issues as well. This just helps confirm my suspicions from the beginning. Those kids were drugged and I bet Noah was accidentally overdosed. Just my opinion of course.

 

[AnnaGrace]

"In court Wednesday, a prosecutor said new medical examinations revealed the daughter was born on drugs and has a condition called Neonatal Abstinence Syndrome." http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/new...oah-thomas-to-seek-bond-on-wednesday/32633726

I'm not sure how old their baby is, but if the above statement is correct and the baby still has NAS, then I'm definitely under the impression their baby was exposed to the drug/s for quite an extended amount of time prenatally and had developed a high tolerance and dependency. I'm very curious if it's "has a condition" vs. "had a condition".

Also, while I 100% agree with the judge's decision in denying him bail, why would the information presented in court about the baby being born on drugs and having NAS have to do with whether or not he's allowed bond? I don't think it strengthens the stance that he'd be a flight risk, nor do I think it strengthens the stance that he'd be a threat to the public. (Personally, I think he's a flight risk and it has nothing to do with their daughter . . . as in, I don't even think she's reason enough for him to stick around)

In court on Wednesday, Pulaski County Commonwealth's Attorney Mike Fleenor, said that medical records show Abigail was born with neonatal abstinence syndrome, meaning she was born addicted to a narcotic or opiate. Fleenor also said she presently is still diagnosed with it.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/crime/p...cle_aaa281f8-adc0-533d-b1db-e420fa5455da.html

 

[Aeronomy]

In court on Wednesday, Pulaski County Commonwealth's Attorney Mike Fleenor, said that medical records show Abigail was born with neonatal abstinence syndrome, meaning she was born addicted to a narcotic or opiate. Fleenor also said she presently is still diagnosed with it.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/crime/p...cle_aaa281f8-adc0-533d-b1db-e420fa5455da.html

Thank you!

http://m.pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/134/2/e547.abstract.
It says that morphine is commonly given to treat babies with this syndrome. If she managed to give birth without anyone knowing the baby was addicted...got home with a cranky baby...decided to treat the baby herself? That would explain the respiratory issues as well. This just helps confirm my suspicions from the beginning. Those kids were drugged and I bet Noah was accidentally overdosed. Just my opinion of course.

The BBM above is interesting because WDBJ7's report states "new medical examinations revealed the daughter was born on drugs". http://www.wdbj7.com/news/local/new...oah-thomas-to-seek-bond-on-wednesday/32633726 Their report seems to suggest this was not something previously realized when the baby was born. Your theory makes a lot of sense.

 

[NSS]

The withdrawal that these babies go through is torture, and every health professional or foster carers that I have discussed this with have shared the heartbreak one feels whilst witnessing it.

The parents should face child abuse charges for this alone.

Not hard to make the leap that either or both parents hid Noah in the septic tank now.

Substance abuse isn't a bad choice, it is a choice one has to make over and over again, it isn't an isolated event, it is an ongoing lifestyle.
It is an emotionally damaging and dangerous lifestyle, and one that children are forever injured by.
Poor Noah and his baby sister paid a high price for their parents choices. I have yet to muster any sympathy for either parent.


*edited to add an 's'*

 

[ANonyMs]

The withdrawal that these babies go through is torture, and every health professional or foster carers that I have discussed this with have shared the heartbreak one feels whilst witnessing it.

The parents should face child abuse charges for this alone.

Not hard to make the leap that either or both parents hid Noah in the septic tank now.

Substance abuse isn't a bad choice, it is a choice one has to make over and over again, it isn't an isolated event, it is an ongoing lifestyle.
It is an emotionally damaging and dangerous lifestyle, and one that children are forever injured by.
Poor Noah and his baby sister paid a high price for their parents choices. I have yet to muster any sympathy for either parent.


*edited to add an 's'*

I know it was stated here by someone familiar with the family that the Aunt is caring for Baby A but this new information makes me wonder if that is accurate. How could an untrained caregiver deal with that type of medical need? How could the state place her with a family member knowing what we know now?

 

[CatsInTheCradle]

http://m.pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/134/2/e547.abstract.
It says that morphine is commonly given to treat babies with this syndrome. If she managed to give birth without anyone knowing the baby was addicted...got home with a cranky baby...decided to treat the baby herself? That would explain the respiratory issues as well. This just helps confirm my suspicions from the beginning. Those kids were drugged and I bet Noah was accidentally overdosed. Just my opinion of course.

BBM - you know the really scary part about this - is that initial rumors are appearing to be correct as tidbits of information come out. I may have to read the updates as they are available with one eye shut because I'm worried it is going to be very bad. Parents continue to be denied bond and every update we get just gets worse and worse. Poor sweet Noah and God bless that baby girl please with a decent life now.

 

[AnnaGrace]

I've had a feeling that this story will only get worse as more is revealed. Today, I've read some and then went and cried some for Noah and his little sister. It's so heartbreaking to even think about what their little lives were like. So, so sad.

 

[Hoosgirl]

If AW continued to use, and was breastfeeding, could that have continued the syndrome so long past birth?

 

[AnnaGrace]

If AW continued to use, and was breastfeeding, could that have continued the syndrome so long past birth?

I don't know for a fact, but, I would think yes.

 

[ANonyMs]

I have a dear friend whose son died of a heroin overdose. She has since become a very vocal and active advocate for better access to treatment, more aggressive pursuit of dealers, and tighter restrictions on pain med Rx's to help prevent one common source of addiction. There has been evidence in the last year that pain meds prescribed for common procedures like dental work or injuries such as resetting a shoulder triggers the addiction mechanism in many people, especially in teens and young adults.

I am not in any way defending either parent, so please do not misunderstand my post. I absolutely find no excuse for what has happened to Noah nor to Baby A. But there IS a science behind addiction. It is not as simple as a choice.

We have no way of knowing at this point what their back story is. This could have been a situation where AW was prescribed meds legally and became addicted. Or, frankly, she could have made the choice to just try it...and then try it again a few more times and became addicted. And again, not to defend this woman in any way, but just to speak to the "how does this happen"...AW has not had a typical family life. Her father was murdered. Her best friend was murdered. Her mother died. I think there must have been a lot of sadness and strife in her life. Opiate users often report that they use to feel numb, to escape.

Heroin use is one the rise nationwide but there are pockets of areas where it is increasing sharply and SW Virginia is unfortunately one of them. Opiate use/abuse, in general, is almost at the point of an epidemic in our country.

There are so many things about PT's bond appeal hearing that make me realize how tangled this case really is. If AW was using while pregnant with Baby A, did PT know? What did he know and when did he know it? Do we still believe a family member is now caring for Baby A?

 

[Mountaingazer]

I know it was stated here by someone familiar with the family that the Aunt is caring for Baby A but this new information makes me wonder if that is accurate. How could an untrained caregiver deal with that type of medical need? How could the state place her with a family member knowing what we know now?

The sister is a nurse I believe and had distanced herself from her sister well before this took place. So she is actually probably a wonderful placement for the baby. Familial love, no drug use, and has specialized medical training.

 

[Hoosgirl]

This article says that heroin and other opiates, including methadone, can result in symptoms lasting 4-6 months. Wonder if the prescription rx was methadone?

http://www.stanfordchildrens.org/en/topic/default?id=neonatal-abstinence-syndrome-90-P02387

 

[Queen Bee]

oh sweet jesus.....just scanning here to catch up.....i've been on the james holmes thread posting court tweets all the while my head was wandering to noah and here and what happened in court today.......

omg......i'll come back and read in-depth later.....thank you for the links.........back in session over in colorado

:rose: noah, oh sweetheart how unfair was your short life :heartbeat:

eta..........:rose: baby abigail.......:heartbeat: bless her

 

[Luvrosco]

I think nobody here is probably that surprised to hear about the mom. What a shame. Poor sweet Noah.

 

[ANonyMs]

I think nobody here is probably that surprised to hear about the mom. What a shame. Poor sweet Noah.

I am not surprised she was using but I am surprised she was using while pregnant. I seldom say what I actually think here. I sort of ride the fence and play both sides for the sake of discussion. I thought they were both using. I thought she had been using longer than him but I thought it was a fairly new thing for both of them based on Baby A's age. I somehow assumed AW's drug use would have been detected during pregnancy and/or giving birth. I somehow hoped that PT's place of work being an industrial plant had a zero tolerance policy for drugs due to safety concerns. I hoped that b/c what most people saw of Noah was a happy and well adjusted child, that their drug use was new.

I was pretty disappointed when I read this news today. I felt sick. I wasn't sure if I would vomit or cry first. I read the news while I sat in the car as my 3 year old was napping and I did not have the heart to wake her. We sat with the A/C on for white noise and classical music playing softly. I thought about when I was pregnant with her and I became very ill. I was taken to to ER and given meds for asthma and a chest cold bordering on pneumonia and how terrified I was that it would harm her. And I remembered feeling this overwhelming connection to both of my babies from the moment I knew I was pregnant. I felt truly sad for Baby A that she did not have that kind of nurturing - even in the womb - which should be the one place all humans are safe.

So, yeah...I was surprised.