Va. school board fires ‘butt-printing’ art teacher

[txsvicki]

Okay, we're even!

reb, I have no problem with stars teaching children as long as they don't bring their work into the classroom. The fact that some enterprising child finds the teacher's videotape somewhere else doesn't much bother me.

Yes, but it's double standard. If you or I were a star and our kids were acting up and not on ADD medication or you were demanding help, they wouldn't think twice of having you investigated. I wouldn't want a star teaching my kids because of all they are exposed to and other people they might be associated with. That could possibly be a danger to children.

 

[Nova]

Yes, but it's double standard. If you or I were a star and our kids were acting up and not on ADD medication or you were demanding help, they wouldn't think twice of having you investigated. I wouldn't want a star teaching my kids because of all they are exposed to and other people they might be associated with. That could possibly be a danger to children.

vicki, I don't understand what performers are exposed to that will transfer to students in a classroom.

But it was a hypothetical example. Although I have heard of a couple of teachers who were fired for having made videos, I doubt it's common.

 

[sariebell]

I am an artist and an art teacher and I find this teacher's dismissal disturbing. I can't believe this is happening in our (free?) country. It rocks me to my foundation. I can't even express how ridiculous I find all of this. What an invasion of personal/individual rights. It disgusts and irritates me.

I have an art degree. I haven't seen his work, nor have I heard it discussed. I daresay, however, that most laymen have very little understanding of any if not all contemporary art. I don't know if his art offers up much in the way of meaning or not. I doubt that the administrators who chose to dismiss him have any understanding of his visual statements, however.

I would hate to think that I someday will have to censor my life work (my art) in order to keep my day job (teaching). Hopefully, I will have moved on to a different career by that point, for I find the situation scary and terribly insulting.

 

[reb]

right.. but school boards are apparently making some attempt to hold onto some ethics here (as everything else goes to pot).. where do you draw the line? is it OK to have a meth-head teacher, as long as s/he keeps it out of the classroom? or s child molester? a prostitute? OK, so those things are illegal. but what about a dominitrix? a stripper? a heroin addict? what about a member of NAMBLA? does anyone not think that the character of these people, the star, etc.. might spill over into the classroom, or maybe they shouldn't be teaching children?
hey, it's their private life, right??

you know a lot of this is only because if the parents find out about a butt & genital-printing teacher, or star or whatever.. they are going to be livid and will demand to know why such a person has been chosen to teach their child, and demand that they be fired. (at least, until the day we really do degrade to the point where "anything goes".)

hi czechmate & sorry to shock you... but call me old-fashioned on this one.

 

[reb]

<vicki, I don't understand what performers are exposed to that will transfer to students in a classroom.>

geez.. do we really need to spell all the possible examples out for you? i would but this is not an X-rated forum!

how do we know the poren star-teacher will not start teaching that 'anything is art'.. like photos of sex acts (i won't go into detail, but just watch a movie if you need to know- lol).. and how do we know that the butt/genital-printing teacher won't start showing his prints in class, or even encouraging his students to try the same thing? but you know what? even if that did happen, you can bet people will still stand up for them in honor of "free expression". but some kind of boundaries have to be drawn somewhere. the school board just swanted to nip it in the bud so it wouldn't even be an issue or a possibility.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I am an artist and an art teacher and I find this teacher's dismissal disturbing. I can't believe this is happening in our (free?) country. It rocks me to my foundation. I can't even express how ridiculous I find all of this. What an invasion of personal/individual rights. It disgusts and irritates me.

I have an art degree. I haven't seen his work, nor have I heard it discussed. I daresay, however, that most laymen have very little understanding of any if not all contemporary art. I don't know if his art offers up much in the way of meaning or not. I doubt that the administrators who chose to dismiss him have any understanding of his visual statements, however.

I would hate to think that I someday will have to censor my life work (my art) in order to keep my day job (teaching). Hopefully, I will have moved on to a different career by that point, for I find the situation scary and terribly insulting.

I'll admit, I'm a "layperson" when it comes to what is "art," and I suppose that if this guy wants to rub paint on his and wipe it on a piece of canvass, and call it "art," that's up to him. However, I don't think that's the real issue here.

 

[Nova]

<vicki, I don't understand what performers are exposed to that will transfer to students in a classroom.>

geez.. do we really need to spell all the possible examples out for you? i would but this is not an X-rated forum!

how do we know the poren star-teacher will not start teaching that 'anything is art'.. like photos of sex acts (i won't go into detail, but just watch a movie if you need to know- lol).. and how do we know that the butt/genital-printing teacher won't start showing his prints in class, or even encouraging his students to try the same thing? but you know what? even if that did happen, you can bet people will still stand up for them in honor of "free expression". but some kind of boundaries have to be drawn somewhere. the school board just swanted to nip it in the bud so it wouldn't even be an issue or a possibility.

reb, "some kind of boundaries have to be drawn somewhere" could be used to defend ANYthing, from torture to slavery. Boundaries, yes, but WHERE they should be drawn is the question we are discussing.

We can start by using actual in-class actions as our guide, not hypothetical actions you imagine might occur in the future.

 

[reb]

hey... i know how artists and would-be artists are.. and believe me, the things i mentioned are NOT that hypothetical... it's not that a far line to cross!

 

[julianne]

reb....

So, consider just for a moment....(I mentioned this in my other post) What if this guy was a PHENOMENAL teacher? What if the learning environment in his classroom was such that the kids were excited about learning? What if his teaching skills were such that his students actually enjoyed learning? What if he had the proven ability to turn uninterested, failing students into students who were interested and exceling in his class?

Does he still deserve to get fired because he puts paint on his butt and sits on a canvas in an expression of art???

Your comment: "hey... i know how artists and would-be artists are.. and believe me, the things i mentioned are NOT that hypothetical... it's not that a far line to cross!"

Photos of sex acts being displayed to a high school classroom??? Uh.....yeah, it is a far line to cross---
A teacher showing photos of sex acts to a classroom of kids is committing a crime....NOT being an artist.

 

[LisainWV]

The thing that gets me about these cases is: Everyone has a personal life beyond work and everyone should have the freedom to live their lifestyle (regardless of what it is, legal, of course) and not be punished for it. They have to be tactful enough to draw the line between personal and professional. I don't think this guy crossed that line.


What about the teacher who is an alcoholic? Not gonna get fired unless they show up for work drunk...


Bottom line is, I just don't care if this guy puts paint on himself - wherever he puts it - in his home. He's not doing it in school.


Furthermore, any high school kid with access to a computer and the internet has seen way more graphic stuff than a print of some guys balls and on canvas. Let's be reasonable here.

 

[reb]

right, but as i said before.. can you imagine how the parents would feel if they found out, before the school board did (or the students), what this guy was doing in his private life (his fairly PUBLIC private life- since he did put himself on the internet, with that silly mask on... (of COURSE people are going to wonder who he is and be even more curious!)..? they are going to be livid.. with most of them saying, what is this guy doing teaching our children?? and now the students are all titillated watching him online, with , genitals and balls all hanging out... HEY! there's my teacher,, and he's naked!! tee hee!! when they could be doing something more productive like schoolwork. this is what i mean by "where do you draw the line". if their teacher is secretly a star, next thing you know the students are spending their time trying to find online photos or films of them... instead of concentrating on studies. maybe we americans are 'uptight' about nudity and sexuality... but at the same time it is so pushed in our faces everywhere you look. don't students deserve to have someplace where they can get away from this? must EVERYTHING be sexualized??

and like i said beofre, it's going to make the school look bad, and they could possibly get sued by the parents, so it's a liability issue as well. most schools at least make an attempt to hire teachers with character, and if they find out something that is going to cause a big enough scandal that it's going to interfere with everyone's learning or undermine what they are there to do,, then is should be their right to fire them.

the fact is, there are plenty of amazing, incredible, gifted, committed teachers out there who would LOVE to have his job, who are NOT doing or pornographic so-called "art" on the side... AND putting it all over the internet.

 

[julianne]

right, but as i said before.. can you imagine how the parents would feel if they found out, before the school board did (or the students), what this guy was doing in his private life (his fairly PUBLIC private life- since he did put himself on the internet, with that silly mask on... (of COURSE people are going to wonder who he is and be even more curious!)..? they are going to be livid.. with most of them saying, what is this guy doing teaching our children?? and now the students are all titillated watching him online, with , genitals and balls all hanging out... HEY! there's my teacher,, and he's naked!! tee hee!! when they could be doing something more productive like schoolwork. this is what i mean by "where do you draw the line". if their teacher is secretly a star, next thing you know the students are spending their time trying to find online photos or films of them... instead of concentrating on studies. maybe we americans are 'uptight' about nudity and sexuality... but at the same time it is so pushed in our faces everywhere you look. don't students deserve to have someplace where they can get away from this? must EVERYTHING be sexualized??

and like i said beofre, it's going to make the school look bad, and they could possibly get sued by the parents, so it's a liability issue as well. most schools at least make an attempt to hire teachers with character, and if they find out something that is going to cause a big enough scandal that it's going to interfere with everyone's learning or undermine what they are there to do,, then is should be their right to fire them.

the fact is, there are plenty of amazing, incredible, gifted, committed teachers out there who would LOVE to have his job, who are NOT doing or pornographic so-called "art" on the side... AND putting it all over the internet.

I haven't read ANYTHING that says this guy was on the internet NAKED. I've read nothing about where his balls & were hanging out. Gimme a link---I don't think nudity was involved in it at all.

Exactly--must EVERYTHING be sexualized???? I'm thinking by stating that this guy had his twigs and berries hanging out naked for all to see on the web IS putting an unneeded sexual slant on this. The kids weren't saying "Hey there's my teacher, he's naked" like you say because HE WASN'T NAKED.

reb---the fact is, there is an INCREDIBLE SHORTAGE of amazing, incredible, gifted, committed teachers out there. Trust me, there isn't a line of teachers lining up for his job. Our country has been turning out thousands and thousands of less teachers each and every year, mainly due to the lousy pay involved. There are not "plenty" of teachers standing around, waiting in the wings to try to get a job----that's just not reality.

 

[reb]

OK... there IS a great shortage of good teachers in this country, but are we so desperate for them that we have to have a butt-printing art teacher? surely there are at least a FEW others willing to take his place that won't cause such a controversy at the school.
and i did see a clip that was on the internet of him doing his thing with.. well, his thing.

btw,, what pisses me off in the art world is that these days, people think they can whip their junk out or do something controversial, and voila'! it's art. if it involves naughty bits, or , piss, excrement, or anything sexual, shocking or revolting... it must be art. when did this happen?? are people really THAT out of ideas? and then there's the 'artists' who do nothing-- put a pile of trash on the ground and call it an installation.
so annoying.

 

[czechmate7]

OK... there IS a great shortage of good teachers in this country, but are we so desperate for them that we have to have a butt-printing art teacher? surely there are at least a FEW others willing to take his place that won't cause such a controversy at the school.
and i did see a clip that was on the internet of him doing his thing with.. well, his thing.

btw,, what pisses me off in the art world is that these days, people think they can whip their junk out or do something controversial, and voila'! it's art. if it involves naughty bits, or , piss, excrement, or anything sexual, shocking or revolting... it must be art. when did this happen?? are people really THAT out of ideas? and then there's the 'artists' who do nothing-- put a pile of trash on the ground and call it an installation.
so annoying.

Reb..."whip their junk out" and "naughty bits"..LOL I agree with you that the art world these days sometimes can be overly bizzaro....butt (<~~hehe) since you saw the clip on this particular case would you agree that the art pieces themselves were not in bad taste? I still don't think the punishment in this case fits the crime.
Speaking of art teachers...they are a little different than any other. With other subjects teachers can just get the material and plan their lectures...Art teachers (at least in my case in school) thought outside the box; made our creative thoughts flow.....not just anyone can do that...IMO, of course

 

[Paladin]

OK... there IS a great shortage of good teachers in this country, but are we so desperate for them that we have to have a butt-printing art teacher? surely there are at least a FEW others willing to take his place that won't cause such a controversy at the school.
and i did see a clip that was on the internet of him doing his thing with.. well, his thing.

btw,, what pisses me off in the art world is that these days, people think they can whip their junk out or do something controversial, and voila'! it's art. if it involves naughty bits, or , piss, excrement, or anything sexual, shocking or revolting... it must be art. when did this happen?? are people really THAT out of ideas? and then there's the 'artists' who do nothing-- put a pile of trash on the ground and call it an installation.
so annoying.

Dude, he's not forcing anyone to buy his work. If people buy it then they obviously enjoy it.

My college art teacher said that everyone's taste in art is 100% perfect, meaning, if someone thinks that butt-paint on a canvas is art, then it is. There's no objective here.

And why are people so uptight about the nude form? We are born nude, so why is it something to be so ashamed of? I realize there is a time and place and if you're ordering a sandwich you don't want to see the server's knick-knacks, but if it's done in a tasteful fasion then so be it. Some people need to get over themselves. If you're offended by nudity then you're stuck in the stoneages. Enlighten yourselves.

 

[czechmate7]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I love all these alternative words !!

knick-knacks

 

[reb]

paladin,, you missed my point, and all my points in fact.

and here's what i'd like to ask all those goofy art professors from the 60's and 70's that largely encouraged the erosion of art in the past few decades.... OK, if "anything" is art, then is "anything" math, too?? on a math exam, can i do a bunch of doodles and lines and scribble a bunch of numbers and still get an A..?? can do the same on a science exam? why not?? why should art be any different? what happened to the skill of art.. does that not account for anything anymore?

i'm one of those people who believes there should be SOME standards for art. call me old-fashioned, call me new-fashioned... call me whatever... but i believe much of art has been ruined by these clowns ho just do anything controversial and say it's art. it's not art, it's just stupid and attention-seeking... and en excuse for not having any real ideas or talent.

 

[Paladin]

paladin,, you missed my point, and all my points in fact.

Enlighten me then. If I misssed it/them then they probably weren't that good to begin with. :innocent:

 

[reb]

*sigh*.. that's what i've been tryin' to do,, didja read....??

 

[czechmate7]

*sigh*.. that's what i've been tryin' to do,, didja read....??

Reb.....everyone having their own opinion is what makes the world go round'....just think if everyone thought the same way!!??