Va. school board fires ‘butt-printing’ art teacher

[reb]

czech.. true, of course... that's what debate is all about. that would be quite scary... or a dream come true, if you're a dictator!

 

[sariebell]

You know what pisses me off the most about all of this? If this guy was an attorney (day job) and an artist, he wouldn't lose his job!!! The firm would be sued up and down. If he was a doctor during the day, his art would not cost him his job!! How come being an art teacher, he is held to different standards than other professionals? It irks me!! I can't tell you how offended I am by some of the comments from people who "know how artists are". Tell me about myself, then.

And prints are not pornographic. Give me a break! I'll even wager that some of you have prints of your baby! It's so shocking to me how closed-minded and ignorant people can be.

I'll just try not to think about this anymore.

 

[southcitymom]

I'll have to ditto what Nova said about Americans and nudity....we get so freaked out when genitalia is involved in something - even if it's entirely non-sexual.

It's ridiculous that this teacher was fired.

 

[julianne]

paladin,, you missed my point, and all my points in fact.

and here's what i'd like to ask all those goofy art professors from the 60's and 70's that largely encouraged the erosion of art in the past few decades.... OK, if "anything" is art, then is "anything" math, too?? on a math exam, can i do a bunch of doodles and lines and scribble a bunch of numbers and still get an A..?? can do the same on a science exam? why not?? why should art be any different? what happened to the skill of art.. does that not account for anything anymore?

i'm one of those people who believes there should be SOME standards for art. call me old-fashioned, call me new-fashioned... call me whatever... but i believe much of art has been ruined by these clowns ho just do anything controversial and say it's art. it's not art, it's just stupid and attention-seeking... and en excuse for not having any real ideas or talent.

No, reb...."anything" isn't math. Math is concrete. Math is definitive. Art is not. Art is, for lack of a better term, an expression. There is no one true definition of art, for it means something different to everyone. I can't answer your question of why should art be any different from math or science, because if you honestly don't understand that there is a between those areas and art, it would take me entirely too long to attempt to explain the vast differences. Ones concept of art is usually deeply rooted in their social or cultural histories, whether cognizant of that or not. The idea that art must be "aesthetically pleasing" to the major majority is usually prominent with the elementary/junior high crowd, but as we grow and mature we learn that art can be many things, and we also learn that there is no one clear definition for art. It's very fluid from one person to the next.

 

[julianne]

I'll have to ditto what Nova said about Americans and nudity....we get so freaked out when genitalia is involved in something - even if it's entirely non-sexual.

It's ridiculous that this teacher was fired.

Very true----people are entirely too hung up about the nude body. IT'S A BODY, PEOPLE. Geez, we've all got one. :slap:

 

[KatK]

No, reb...."anything" isn't math. Math is concrete. Math is definitive. Art is not. Art is, for lack of a better term, an expression. There is no one true definition of art, for it means something different to everyone. I can't answer your question of why should art be any different from math or science, because if you honestly don't understand that there is a between those areas and art, it would take me entirely too long to attempt to explain the vast differences. Ones concept of art is usually deeply rooted in their social or cultural histories, whether cognizant of that or not. The idea that art must be "aesthetically pleasing" to the major majority is usually prominent with the elementary/junior high crowd, but as we grow and mature we learn that art can be many things, and we also learn that there is no one clear definition for art. It's very fluid from one person to the next.

I think the problem is reb is literal minded. "It's black, or it's white, there is no grey!" reb, just realize that you cannot grasp grey areas and move on, please? :twocents: (My opinion, of course, take it or leave it.)

 

[reb]

i beg yer pardon, i am quite aware of grey areas thank you. you just don't like what i have to say, because it goes against the anti-censorship brigade. and i don't believe in 'anything goes'.
but, OK... so maybe 'pornographic' was a strong word, and i have no problem with nudity or the human body. it's just that the parents/school board might not want their kids/ students to be spending time looking at their teacher's privates online. doing something legal in the privacy of your own home is one thing.. doing the same thing and putting yourself all over the internet for your students to find and look at is another.
like i said, schools have a reputation to uphold, and i'm sure they don't want or need the scrutiny of keeping this guy. they also don't need to be sued by parents.. i can't blame them for not wanting to deal with any more controversy than they already have to. obviously, the guy wanted to be found out or he wouldn't have put films of himself online in the first place.
yes we are a 'free' country and this guy is free to make prints of his nether regions to his heart's content and sell them for a million dollars. but good for the school for trying to keep standards high at their establishment.. and that is their right.. and FREEDOM.. to do so!

 

[KatK]

Be that as it may, reb you offended more people than you at first realized with your pontifications on the nature of artists! You *don't* know the nature (of all) of artists, or you wouldn't have spewed such things. Try to think before you type. (And maybe consider following what your English teachers taught you, please? It would be easier to follow, and kinder to the people reading your posts.) There are many, many different forms of self expression, and just because one person does things one way does not mean *all* artists do it that way, or would want to. I work with beads and wire currently, but I also love watercolor or acrylic washes. Just because one person does things "outside the norm of artistic expression" does not mean *all* artists want to do the same! A poem doesn't have to rhyme to be good poetry, and anymore there are plenty of "wordsmiths" (poets) who don't rhyme in their works. You assumed some things, and you got called on it. At least have the grace to admit you have offended, and try not to do it again. I found this post, and the post reb made leading up to it exceedingly offensive!

hey... i know how artists and would-be artists are.. and believe me, the things i mentioned are NOT that hypothetical... it's not that a far line to cross!

<SNIP>btw,, what pisses me off in the art world is that these days, people think they can whip their junk out or do something controversial, and voila'! it's art. if it involves naughty bits, or , piss, excrement, or anything sexual, shocking or revolting... it must be art. when did this happen?? are people really THAT out of ideas? and then there's the 'artists' who do nothing-- put a pile of trash on the ground and call it an installation.
so annoying.

Here's an idea. If you don't like that form of expression, and aren't into it, DON'T GO TO THE EXHIBITION! I, myself am more into things like....Monet, Manet, Van Gogh, Renior, O' Keefe etc. Then again, there were people in the times of those artists who said things *very* similar to what you are saying. Some people "dig" one kind of artistic expression, others don't. I have to agree that I don't get the whole piss//ejaculate thing myself. I think though that they are an extreme fringe that the media has pounced on and shone a spotlight on. They aren't the norm at all! *YOU* just don't get that, reb.

K, I've said my piece, I'll step off my pulpit now...

As a post-script, I do however like this artist's work, and I've loved this fellow's creations for some time.

 

[czechmate7]

Be that as it may, reb you offended more people than you at first realized with your pontifications on the nature of artists! You *don't* know the nature (of all) of artists, or you wouldn't have spewed such things. Try to think before you type. (And maybe consider following what your English teachers taught you, please? It would be easier to follow, and kinder to the people reading your posts.) There are many, many different forms of self expression, and just because one person does things one way does not mean *all* artists do it that way, or would want to. I work with beads and wire currently, but I also love watercolor or acrylic washes. Just because one person does things "outside the norm of artistic expression" does not mean *all* artists want to do the same! A poem doesn't have to rhyme to be good poetry, and anymore there are plenty of "wordsmiths" (poets) who don't rhyme in their works. You assumed some things, and you got called on it. At least have the grace to admit you have offended, and try not to do it again. I found this post, and the post reb made leading up to it exceedingly offensive!

Here's an idea. If you don't like that form of expression, and aren't into it, DON'T GO TO THE EXHIBITION! I, myself am more into things like....Monet, Manet, Van Gogh, Renior, O' Keefe etc. Then again, there were people in the times of those artists who said things *very* similar to what you are saying. Some people "dig" one kind of artistic expression, others don't. I have to agree that I don't get the whole piss//ejaculate thing myself. I think though that they are an extreme fringe that the media has pounced on and shone a spotlight on. They aren't the norm at all! *YOU* just don't get that, reb.

K, I've said my piece, I'll step off my pulpit now...

As a post-script, I do however like this artist's work, and I've loved this fellow's creations for some time.

Kat....Light'n up some on Reb.. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion..and even though I don't totally agree with Reb I have to admit I do understand what she is trying to say.
I use to be big into Art. There is a lot of stuff out there that I wouldn't consider *art* but is labled *art*. To each his own, in the eye of the beholder, however you want to say it... I understand that my opinion isn't the deciding factor; but that still doesn't mean I have to agree.
Give Reb a little time (and a few more gross *art* threads) and she'll be rallying to get the buttmaking teachers' job back!!

Also, I think this guys work is pretty cool too. I would have never guessed you used body parts to create!!

 

[Taximom]

I almost don't want to start this thread up again, butt, he's filed a lawsuit.

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/teacher-fired-over-butt-art-files/20071004175909990002

The lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in Richmond by the American Civil Liberties Union, said Murmer's firing violates his First Amendment rights. It also alleges that after he was suspended from teaching in December, school officials ordered him not to discuss his suspension even as they commented on it in news interviews.

The complaint seeks unspecified damages and legal fees from the county school board, a school district personnel official and the principal at Monacan High School, where he taught.

School officials had not seen the lawsuit early Thursday afternoon and do not comment on litigation, said spokeswoman Debra Marlow.
(more at link)

 

[SeriouslySearching]

This is quite interesting to me. As an artist, I have done full body painting on canvas and come up with some wonderful pieces. I love to think outside the box and be able to express myself in my artwork. Most artists wouldn't consider it even odd to use their body to paint with! LOL

The human body has been depicted in every possible medium and the art world holds some priceless examples of this. Michelangelo would have been termed a perv for his depiction of David and other fabulous works if he were to have been judged by some in this conversation!

Using the body or various parts of the body to create art isn't new. I am surprised at the stir this has caused and shocked they would fire the art teacher over something so mundane. He didn't break any laws. He wasn't soliciting children to be present while he created his art. He didn't do anything wrong, IMO. He can create whatever he chooses and use whatever means he wants to express himself as long as there is nothing criminal in those actions.

I am glad to see he is going to fight this and stand up for his rights...OUR rights, I should say. HIP HIP Hooray! (If I lived near him...I would be all about staging a "sit-in" on his behalf! THAT would certainly get the ole' school board buzzing about butts!!)