VA - Scott Fricker, 48, & Buckley Kuhn-Fricker, 43, slain, Reston, 22 Dec 2017 *daughter’s bf charged*

[Jennifer17]

I don't question their stopping it, I question them allowing it to go on from June to Christmas. They knew in the summer, knew his flawed beliefs, and had known that she was letting him in her room too, and yet allowed her to continue you to have contact. Not their best course of action, but, again, kids don't come with a manual. They were possibly trying to keep as much peace in the household as possible, over the summer, I'd guess.

When you have kids with the types of behaviour problems, especially ones that warrant them being in this type of school, home is a battleground, many times. I'd still have squashed the relationship back in the summer, before it got hot and heavy, but that's just me. I just told my adult one a few months back, not to ever bring a particular female to my home again. Not a gf, just a friend. If he did, there'd be consequences. He knew I meant it, and she never came back. I felt for the girl, very polite, sweet, kid, but had a big problem. As much as I'd like, I can't save the world.

You have said that you were a rebellious child. Would forbidding you from seeing a boy that you were heads over heels with worked with you?

 

[Betty P]

Yes, killing them did show that he was a clear danger to them. We don’t know if they realized the extent of the danger though. And we also don’t know that anything they did or didn’t do put them in more danger. They did the best they could and got killed. Can we learn anything at all from this situation, without being disrespectful of the Frickers? I think we can try.

I don’t think it’s questioning their behavior/choices to hypothetically discuss alternate choices, which is not at all the same as blaming the victim, as has been alleged. It’s a way of analyzing other possibilities that might have produced another outcome and that could be applied in other similar situations. Some folks here have kids and it’s wise IMO to think about options. When schools have a shooting incident, for example, you can be sure that the response within the school is later picked apart and analyzed in order to provide even more security in the future. Same thing with an officer-involved-shooting. Avoiding that conversation isn’t productive in a school, police department or in any other situation.

We have many opportunities here on WS to learn from different situations. I appreciate being able to discuss various options with a view to applying them if needed or just examining and broadening my own outlook. I apologize if that comes across as questioning someone’s choices or blaming them. That’s not at all my intent and I don’t see others having that intent either. No one is to blame but the boyfriend. So how do we protect ourselves from someone like that?

Given that this young man was:

a fan of a violent subculture (Neo-Nazis/White Power)

was carrying a weapon that he knew how to use and that possibly belonged to him

had a history of breaking into people's homes at night

murdered two innocent, unarmed people

all seem a strong indicator that his parents knew what was going on with him and that he was a risk to others. I'll go out on a limb and also say that it's likely he was or at some time had been taking medication for his mental/emotional problems. All of these things made it incumbent on his parents to pay close attention to his activities, including ensuring he had no access to guns.

Parents doing their job in raising their own children is always key. When parents fail, it falls to other adults to do what is necessary when they see troubling, violent behavior that presents a risk to other innocent people. That includes the victims, school officials, teachers, medical professionals, social workers/counselors, etc. Everyone except the killer's parents did the right thing, took the right steps in this situation.

We've been over this many times as we witness the tragedies of school shootings. The public has learned from these situations, the signs to look for, how to report bad behavior, etc. From what we know so far, it's possible the boyfriend was also at risk of initiating mass murder at his school. I'd be willing to bet school administrators had him under observation, had already seen signs of potential violence.

 

[Betty P]

Oh, I don't doubt that they'd not been having problems with her for awhile. Maybe since early adolescence. She did something pretty on edge to get into that school. I think they saw an opportunity to have the family intervention, at Christmas, (one of the most anxiety filled holidays on the calendar), and coax her to break it off with her bad boy, Nazi-loving, sweetheart, and she acquiesced, in front of them. Then, Mom puts the quote about "good men standing by", on her FB, and that not only fueled daughter's anxiety, and rage, at the situation, she wants bf to know it was all an act on her part, lets him in that early morning, and the $hlt hits the proverbial fan. That's just my take. I don't see the daughter as some innocent in this, at this juncture. If he was trying to get into a locked window, there was plenty of time for her to run screaming out of her bedroom, and dial 911. Just my take.

The daughter didn't pull the trigger, nor did she routinely enter people's homes at night without their permission. Only one person pulled the trigger. Only one person in this situation proselytized about violent Neo-Nazi/White Power beliefs, carried a gun and murdered innocent people.

I don't understand why anyone would want to defend the rights, twisted beliefs and behavior of a violent killer. Why try to blame it on the victims instead of the killer?

 

[enelram]

My experience years ago while working in an educational institution that also had an alternative high school for troubled
youth, was that the H.S. officials tip-toed around disciplining the students for anything but the most egregious things.
Officials believed that the troubled students had already suffered in public schools due to their behavior and officials
wanted to be more like 'friends' than authoritarians. I kid you not. We were scared to death of these students because
we knew there would be no or very little consequences for more bad behavior. It was an eye opener for me and I've never forgotten that atmosphere.

 

[Betty P]

My experience years ago while working in an educational institution that also had an alternative high school for troubled
youth, was that the H.S. officials tip-toed around disciplining the students for anything but the most egregious things.
Officials believed that the troubled students had already suffered in public schools due to their behavior and officials
wanted to be more like 'friends' than authoritarians. I kid you not. We were scared to death of these students because
we knew there would be no or very little consequences for more bad behavior. It was an eye opener for me and I've never forgotten that atmosphere.

I have a feeling that with the epidemic of mass shootings in schools, those officials are doing things differently. They have to.

 

[EuTuCroquet?]

Given that this young man was:

a fan of a violent subculture (Neo-Nazis/White Power)

was carrying a weapon that he knew how to use and that possibly belonged to him

had a history of breaking into people's homes at night

murdered two innocent, unarmed people

all seem a strong indicator that his parents knew what was going on with him and that he was a risk to others. I'll go out on a limb and also say that it's likely he was or at some time had been taking medication for his mental/emotional problems. All of these things made it incumbent on his parents to pay close attention to his activities, including ensuring he had no access to guns.

Parents doing their job in raising their own children is always key. When parents fail, it falls to other adults to do what is necessary when they see troubling, violent behavior that presents a risk to other innocent people. That includes the victims, school officials, teachers, medical professionals, social workers/counselors, etc. Everyone except the killer's parents did the right thing, took the right steps in this situation.

We've been over this many times as we witness the tragedies of school shootings. The public has learned from these situations, the signs to look for, how to report bad behavior, etc. From what we know so far, it's possible the boyfriend was also at risk of initiating mass murder at his school. I'd be willing to bet school administrators had him under observation, had already seen signs of potential violence.

Parents and others, including school administrators, can “do their jobs” and still fail. The parents, IMO, knew their son was a problem; that’s why he was in an alternative school. It appears to me that he was in a very structured environment.

Similarly, the schools and administrators knew there was a problem; that’s why he was in alternative school. Most schools like that require a referral from a public school. So his problems were documented.

I don’t believe signs were ignored.

Reports of his neo-Nazi activity was shared with the school, and the girl’s mother admitted there was no concrete proof. The school was investigating. link: https://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnas...ting-boyfriend?utm_term=.apVvJy2NG#.gcwneWaKD

This is also a domestic violence issue. And he also blamed the girl’s parents for the relationship ending.

Unfortunately and horribly, it seems clear to me that the suspect killed his girlfriend’s parents (and tried to kill himself) when the girl finally broke off the relationship.

He made the decision to commit murder and take ultimate “control” of a situation he had lost control over.

He might have been a neo-Nazi, but I’m not 100% sold that’s the primary motivator that drove him to kill.

Ultimately, he’s pathologically insecure, maybe with a background of oppositional defiant disorder, derived pleasure from belittling and berating others, and openly fantasized and threatened violence. Mid- to late-teens is also when some mental illness manifests, so I speculate that might also be an issue with him. But USUALLY, he ALSO could act “normal enough” (my words) when it suited HIS motives. I think all the above has more to do with why he killed, and his neo-Nazi affiliation reflected that.

I even believe ALL THAT is what concerned the girl’s mother and why she was so right in convincing their daughter to leave him.

He was pathologically dangerous.

Despite best efforts and intentions and interventions, ultimately, nobody had the ability to contain or dissuade him. He made the choice. It’s his to own and receive consequences for.

All MOO and speculation.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Is it a private school?

My impression is that the school in question is maintained and run by the school district as a separate school for troubled students. Though public school students don't have absolute rights to free speech / continued school attendance either, it is probably very difficult to expel a public school student over speech made off campus.

It is a private school. Not part of FCPS.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[borndem]

There seems to have been no leaks from LE so far, or at least no major leaks. I'm curious about who owns the gun that was used and about what the daughter told LE after the shootings. I thought I read that the daughter was in the same room as the boyfriend when he shot himself. Wondering if she tried to escape or not.

bbm
Same here -- my first thought about what she may have done -- Did she try to stop him? Freak out? I'm thinking it happened really quickly -- did he have the gun in his pocket? His coat/jacket/backpack? He had been there a while -- did he even bring the gun? Could it have been in her room before he even arrived? (Somehow, I don't see her folks having firearms. JMO) Some kind of plan between the two? Did he come over anticipating suicide? Etc., etc., etc. And unless he recovers enuff to stand trial, and there is testimony about what happened, we will never know.

Where is the family (what's left of it, sadly) now? Is the crime scene tape gone? Has the scene been cleaned up -- there are businesses that do that type of clean-up -- bodily fluids and fingerprint powder clean-up, etc. (I would assume fingerprinting was done -- it was a crime scene -- the need to rule out a total stranger doing it for the record), etc. Where are the children & grandparents? Oh, such a sad, sad situation. Even their neighbors will never be the same...

And The Dominion School -- are they scrambling around? I would imagine this is not the 1st time a student has gotten into real trouble outside of school. I still have many questions about what the school personnel knew about the two youths...And if they raised any red flags (which are, of course, confidential).

 

[borndem]

I ran across the photo too. I thought, oh, man. Not that he probably couldn't have gotten hold of one if he wanted one, there's some loopholes that allow that, (and they should be closed, but that's another discussion), and he seemed very capable of either sneaking the car, unless they allowed him free run of the night (they may have even given up. I've seen that too.) Giving up the hobby was a no-brainer for us. We were even careful with video games, I put time limits on gaming, computers, and I monitored phone calls. I was the mother from Hell.

Good for you, hell-mom (!) -- you stood your ground and all survived. You used strength you probably thought you didn't have -- but you did have it. And love is where that strength arose.

 

[rsd1200]

You have said that you were a rebellious child. Would forbidding you from seeing a boy that you were heads over heels with worked with you?

I don't know. I was never in that position. I went in and out of my window, regularly, for over a year, before skipping out, and my parents, to this day, never knew. I'd have my former, now deceased, ex, cut the engine, roll past into the farm, and I'd jump in the truck and I was gone til the wee hours of the morning. As I said, I was partying in biker bars at 17. I knew exactly when my parents woke, and got in before their alarm went off. I can say, that I NEVER did, nor would have, brought anyone in my window at night. Too risky. I did have some common sense. Better only me getting caught going in and out.

My now deceased, ex, who I saw at the time, was scared to death of my father as he put the fear of God in him. There were no materials, no online information, and no one for them to talk to, except each other, about my rebellion. I had four other cousins on one side of the family, who are very like me, but I was the tamest. I do believe this runs in families and it can vary to degree, as my living cousin and I have discussed ( Two of us did not make it). One passed just a few years ago, and the one my age, had a such a sweet heart, but had his problems, died, very tragically, 25 years ago today. I think of him every year at the Holidays.

My experiences, have given me a lot of different exposure to a lot of different folks, and made me able to see, and accept, what was going on with my own wayward one, too. I kept on him like a duck on a Junebug.

However, to answer your question, I rebelled against them on a daily basis, over something, for at least two solid years, before skipping out. They never gave up on me, but they had zero resources, on how to handle me. My parents were not, ever, Hell-raisers, so had no clue.

 

[rsd1200]

The daughter didn't pull the trigger, nor did she routinely enter people's homes at night without their permission. Only one person pulled the trigger. Only one person in this situation proselytized about violent Neo-Nazi/White Power beliefs, carried a gun and murdered innocent people.

I don't understand why anyone would want to defend the rights, twisted beliefs and behavior of a violent killer. Why try to blame it on the victims instead of the killer?

I am not blaming it on the victims. I'm sorry if folks interpret it that way. If she was letting him in then he may have been trespassing, but he wasn't breaking in. I'm just not so sure that the daughter didn't let him inside. I'm just saying, I'd have squashed it earlier if my kid was running with a Nazi, and with their own troubled child that can't be ignored, that she may have rebelled harder, and let him in... again. It's like the "Swatter" case. The swatter didn't pull the trigger, but he basically set them in the man's doorstoop, and got them killed. He's to blame as much or more. If daughter let him in, she has some blame in this.

 

[rsd1200]

My experience years ago while working in an educational institution that also had an alternative high school for troubled
youth, was that the H.S. officials tip-toed around disciplining the students for anything but the most egregious things.
Officials believed that the troubled students had already suffered in public schools due to their behavior and officials
wanted to be more like 'friends' than authoritarians. I kid you not. We were scared to death of these students because
we knew there would be no or very little consequences for more bad behavior. It was an eye opener for me and I've never forgotten that atmosphere.

That was not our experience. I think there was a LEO there daily at our alt. school. I got called to the school for my son's vocal tics (he also has mild Tourette's) and stress exacerbates them.

 

[rsd1200]

Good for you, hell-mom (!) -- you stood your ground and all survived. You used strength you probably thought you didn't have -- but you did have it. And love is where that strength arose.

Thank you. There were days... You don't know how deep you can dig, until you have to do so. On bad days, when I thought of giving up, and couldn't go on, I just thought, well, I've made it this far, just put one foot in front of the other. We've had a lot of pain, but we've had a lot joy. I love my son, and I wish I could lift this off of him, but I can't. He has to learn through repeated mistakes, and unpleasant consequences. I'm just so thankful he is not violent.

 

[courtney2662]

I don't question their stopping it, I question them allowing it to go on from June to Christmas. They knew in the summer, knew his flawed beliefs, and had known that she was letting him in her room too, and yet allowed her to continue you to have contact. Not their best course of action, but, again, kids don't come with a manual. They were possibly trying to keep as much peace in the household as possible, over the summer, I'd guess.

When you have kids with the types of behaviour problems, especially ones that warrant them being in this type of school, home is a battleground, many times. I'd still have squashed the relationship back in the summer, before it got hot and heavy, but that's just me. I just told my adult one a few months back, not to ever bring a particular female to my home again. Not a gf, just a friend. If he did, there'd be consequences. He knew I meant it, and she never came back. I felt for the girl, very polite, sweet, kid, but had a big problem. As much as I'd like, I can't save the world.

My different reports, the girl's parents had been trying to address the situation, limiting their time together, limiting phone and social media, and apparently monitoring their social media interaction - so the teens went to faked accounts and secret twitter communications. It doesn't sound as if the girl's parents were ignoring or just hoping it would go away. The sneaking in to their home at night, combined with discovering his heavier than perhaps realized involvement in the whole neo-nazi group, showed a terrible disrespect, hate, anger - he wasn't just proselytizing to their daughter, he was trying to alienate her from them and they had to do something more drastic than they had already been doing. Contacting his parents and the school weren't the first steps they took IMO. We don't know what the boy's parents were trying to do for him yet, they did have him in the private school, the neighbors knew him as very troubled. Most rational kids and adults will accept realities of certain situations, but these two didn't, and him coming armed to their house when he expected them to be asleep shows a planning, and need to control/manipulate that's not normal, but more abusive than anything else. Was he there to push the situation to dramatic confrontation or try to convince her to run away with him? She will have told the police that by now, hopefully. There's true-love-romeo-juliet style and then there's angry-controlling-who-are-you kind. Sneaking in 5am, armed to anyone's home is confrontational. We don't know if she knew he was coming, but when he hurt her parents, she called the police. She didn't side with him, she didn't comfort him - so while she was on phone with police screaming for help for her parents, he shot himself.

 

[borndem]

Oh, those kids really have no idea what they hold "sacred" and follow. Evil breeds evil.

I can just see these misbegotten teens talking/tweeting/texting each other about something that they really don't know anything about. Yeah, those "amazing" nazi stormtroopers looked tuff, strong, tall, proud, "aryan," armed-to-the-teeth, hate-filled, and backed by the most evil human being on earth at the time. And did they know that if any one of them stepped out of line, that their "admirable" leader would have them horribly tortured & killed, just as they were trained to do to Jews and anyone else that was not like them? Those young (and older as well) bigots talk a big game, and they are protected by the laws that they curse.

 

[courtney2662]

Parents and others, including school administrators, can “do their jobs” and still fail. The parents, IMO, knew their son was a problem; that’s why he was in an alternative school. It appears to me that he was in a very structured environment.

Similarly, the schools and administrators knew there was a problem; that’s why he was in alternative school. Most schools like that require a referral from a public school. So his problems were documented.

I don’t believe signs were ignored.

Reports of his neo-Nazi activity was shared with the school, and the girl’s mother admitted there was no concrete proof. The school was investigating. link: https://www.buzzfeed.com/tasneemnas...ting-boyfriend?utm_term=.apVvJy2NG#.gcwneWaKD

This is also a domestic violence issue. And he also blamed the girl’s parents for the relationship ending.

Unfortunately and horribly, it seems clear to me that the suspect killed his girlfriend’s parents (and tried to kill himself) when the girl finally broke off the relationship.

He made the decision to commit murder and take ultimate “control” of a situation he had lost control over.

He might have been a neo-Nazi, but I’m not 100% sold that’s the primary motivator that drove him to kill.

Ultimately, he’s pathologically insecure, maybe with a background of oppositional defiant disorder, derived pleasure from belittling and berating others, and openly fantasized and threatened violence. Mid- to late-teens is also when some mental illness manifests, so I speculate that might also be an issue with him. But USUALLY, he ALSO could act “normal enough” (my words) when it suited HIS motives. I think all the above has more to do with why he killed, and his neo-Nazi affiliation reflected that.

I even believe ALL THAT is what concerned the girl’s mother and why she was so right in convincing their daughter to leave him.

He was pathologically dangerous.

Despite best efforts and intentions and interventions, ultimately, nobody had the ability to contain or dissuade him. He made the choice. It’s his to own and receive consequences for.

All MOO and speculation.

Private schools usually allow for more discipline than public ones, least here in NYS. So don't know why boy was allowed to stay given his talk of murder and disturbing violence, and also his open discrimination anti-semitic bullying of another student. Other parents must have been disturbed by his continued presence in school?

The daughter may have finally given in to parents, grand-parents, family's wishes to break it off with him, especially if they had provided her with educational matter refuting his neo-nazi falsehoods and lies. I imagine the daughter's friend(s) were also not thrilled with this guy either and may have let her know. Together they might have finally convinced her to break it off, and perhaps he tried to convince her to not break it off. Nobody every wants to believe someone they're dating is violent, no woman or man ever dates someone they know to be abusive, it 'just happens' and then it happens again and again. Well, this kid may have gone from 30 to 100 in one day, and wasn't ready to let her go, he had invested so much time in her, slowly manipulating her against her parents, family and their values. I agree he made his choice, he planned it, he decided to get a gun, he went there armed, and he pulled the trigger each time.

 

[borndem]

You would have been the parent from hell That's the not so good thing about the kinds of special schools, especially at their ages - too isolated, no exposure to normal kids - teens thrive on relationships with their peers, and they don't have a great bunch to pick from in such a small, isolated setting. When my younger autistic son was in such a class that was one of my worries I didn't want him only exposed to troubled kids, fortunately the school did good on getting him back into a regular class, socializing with 'normal' kids. I was thrilled beyond compare when he hit 4th grade and did not want others to know he was ever in such a class - not because I wanted him to be ashamed but I didn't want him identifying with troubled kids.

I understand what the county school system was trying to do -- give the truly troubled students a way to become better fit for life, to be able to return to "regular" school and graduate, and to take the trouble-makers out of a class where their actions can ruin whole days of teaching & learning. Some school system probably have only one alternative -- expulsion -- and then what happens to those troubled youths?? Some are certainly worth saving and do become good students and citizens. But I'll say it one more time -- surely some of the TDS staff knew about the young man and knew that he was really out-of-bounds -- even at this school. And surely the staff discussed it with his parents -- if not, the school was doing a poor, poor job for everyone concerned. Did his parents just try & fail? That's where the probable diagnosis (IANAD) of his being a sociopath seems to be correct. Since sociopaths have no insight or notion of what their actions may do or cause and do not care, then we have a human being just waiting to do something horrible. JMHO.

 

[LadyL]

it worked with me, thankfully
I was ready to move across the country with him when I was 14/15
my mom said, simply, no and it gave me the strength to extricate myself from a relationship I was too deep into

You have said that you were a rebellious child. Would forbidding you from seeing a boy that you were heads over heels with worked with you?

 

[zencompass]

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/...r-Couple-Killed-in-Reston-Home-466971533.html

From the (above) news article:



"In lieu of flowers, the Fricker family suggests that a prayer be said for all affected by this tragedy and that we all treasure the moments that we have with one another," the obituary says.

Sending prayers and thoughts of comfort, love and strength to the three children.

I am hoping and praying that all of the relatives of these three children hold them close and help them all through this terrible time. All of the relatives and friends need comfort during this horrendous and heart-shattering time.

 

[zencompass]

Thank you. There were days... You don't know how deep you can dig, until you have to do so. On bad days, when I thought of giving up, and couldn't go on, I just thought, well, I've made it this far, just put one foot in front of the other. We've had a lot of pain, but we've had a lot joy. I love my son, and I wish I could lift this off of him, but I can't. He has to learn through repeated mistakes, and unpleasant consequences. I'm just so thankful he is not violent.

Dear rsd1200,

You are a treasure, indeed.

By opening up and relaying such heart-rendering events, you have helped us see what is usually hidden behind troubled souls. I have learned greatly from your insightful and compassionate posts.

I wish you a wonderful New Year, full of heart-felt and kind moments. You give so much to others - I wish you all the best.