Verdict: GUILTY for both Millard and Smich of 1st degree murder

[Miranda16]

Who knows why so many people thought MS was telling the truth, but this article in the Vancouver Sun from May 25th, 2016, might explain some of it:

"....Antidepressants increase our sensitivity to the pain of others, but they also reduce our willingness to punish wrongdoers and increase our tolerance of injustice."

Also, most people think they are capable of thinking rationally, while in reality most people aren't. Only people with an active, working knowledge of the cognitive pitfalls that prevent humans from thinking critically could even hope to train themselves to avoid or confront those pitfalls. Confirmation bias is something that most people don't even realize exists, and even those who do are resistant to the idea that they passively relinquish control over their faculties, reducing perceived mental acumen to little more than an ego-stroking exercise. An article on ArsTechnica explains, "Humans tend to flatter themselves by thinking they have the capacity to perform elaborate feats of moral reasoning, deeply considering possible consequences before arriving at an ethical decision. The reality is somewhat less flattering; a number of studies suggest we make moral decisions quickly and with a heavy reliance on our emotional response. Any reasoning that takes place tends to involve after-the-fact attempts to rationalize our decision..."

Juries don't convict on reasonable doubt or lack thereof, they render their decisions based on their emotions.

What I don't understand is that the judge allowed the character evidence against MS (and there was also some against DM), yet this is downplayed in the judge's instructions to the jury. If it isn't to be part of the deliberation, why allow it in the first place?

And the theatrics by the lawyers. The judge says discount it - so why allow it? It's seems that a lot of the psychological ploys should be against the rules from the start.

 

[Ontario Mom]

Next person who is rude to another member will receive a long vacation from me.

This forum is not about your opinions about other posters.

It makes me very angry when I see a member think their opinion of another member is so important that they can stop the discussion of the actual topic to post about what they think.

Play nice please.

Tricia

The "thanks" button just wasn't enough. I just have to say I really do appreciate how the forum is run here and keeping on topic & within TOS is strongly enforced. Even that one time I was the one who got sent to band camp I totally deserved it.

 

[hellkat2]

He's smiling because he knows already! He knows he's getting m1

Smiling in his arrogant way while already planning in his twisted mind for the appeal. Planning to represent himself in the next hearing. This is all a mockery and the smiling is what this is all about. He is a deluded narcissist that will likely never get that he is gonna be looking at cinderblocks for the rest of his life. All of his appeals will be just to get outings. Cuz he cannot be stupid enough to think he has a hope in hell of ever being successful in getting around any of this.

 

[ABro]

I trust your judgement and know that you have information that many of us will learn about over time. IMO, DM and MS have set the criminal wacko bar so high that MWJ should not be compared to them, but rather our laws. He was a catalyst to danger. And from the information the public knows, was a promoter of real danger in our society. I believe in stricter penalties for illegal hand gun possession, and the GTA is on pace this year to set a gun violence record. MWJ's involvement is his doing, and he chose to get in the water with these two salty crocs. He may have been scared of them, but he still got in the water.

"Millard then wrote, "By the time I let her go, she'll be a dirty girl." Jackson responded, "[that's] fine lol. I can change her print.""

MOO

Please don't interpret my comment as excusing MWJ in any way. Gun dealers are dangerous and should be off the streets. And I'm going to continue to follow his case including the AK-47 discharge.

It's just that he's not charged with murder nor was anyone in his crowd except Millard and Smich. It's weird that some people wanted to make him a bigger villain than the two guys convicted of first degree murder.

 

[Just4TB]

IT comments on his gratefulness to be alive... (but still no picture)

Tumanenko told The Canadian Press. "I'm feeling lucky man, lucky, lucky, lucky, lucky."

Now, he said he celebrates a new birthday. Every May 5, he celebrates his "rebirth" with his wife and children. His outlook has changed since he found out Bosma was killed a day later by the same two men who were in his truck.

Source
http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/man-who...h-before-bosma-murder-cheers-vedict-1.2950669

 

[Miranda16]

I assume they didn't all just walk into the jury room and say, well, their both guilty. I could be wrong about that, but I doubt it.
Other posters have said, if you disagree in the jury room, that you'd feel pressure to go with the majority and you'd be hated for speaking out.
Is that a fact? I'm not sure. I suppose anything is possible.
I would like to believe they all feel they made the right decision, I wouldn't be able to live with myself personally if I did something just because I felt pressured.
But not everyone is strong willed, and not everyone stands up for themselves and their beliefs. So it's hard to say

i think it could be a situation where they followed the judge's instructions and did not take a stance out loud on their opinion immediately. They could have waited until the Forman was elected and then allowed the foreman to lead them through a review of the evidence and the decision trees. Such a process would be time consuming even if some of the jury had preset opinions (natural for human beings). As part of that anyone who did have significant doubts of MS's guilt likely became convinced (perhaps through some debate)

 

[Wondergirl]

Hey, I'm behind on the threads big time, but was able to go see the verdict today. Wow that was intense. I was beside Lisa H when she was talking to Dungey (there were a few other media trying to sweet talk him too) , I was eavesdropping pretty much lol.
My heart has always been broken for the Bosmas And how they feel is the most important right now, IMO , and I was very happy for them to get some visible relief today.

Hopefully no one will jump on me, but I have to brave and tell the truth, hopefully you guys will understand in ways 'regular' people not following with us won't - anyway, I found I'm having a hard time processing that MS got convicted of 1st degree murder. After following the case for the past 3 years, but following evidence closely, seeing him testify, I had real reasonable doubt.

Like many of you can I'm sure relate, I have spent an insane amount of time reading, thinking, dreaming and feeling about this case. I live near the Bosmas, husband is similar age, 2 small young ones, etc. I understand where people are coming from, I guess I just didn't have the reasonable doubt/wasn't convinced on MS

Anyway, I do hope they got it right, but I feel sad (regarding M1 for MS and his family, etc, there are no winners ) and hope it's ok to say it. It's such a senseless tragedy all around.

Ps Dellen Millard I felt much more confidant on for 1st degree..... And again, I'm very happy for the family to find even a tiny sense of peace with the verdicts today.
And guys, the look DM gave after the verdict to SB was really, really intense!! "true colours"

Good post. Pretty much my sentiments exactly.

 

[hellkat2]

Victim Impact statements for these two creatures would be disgusting. It would mean that they would have to address them and they them and these two creatures do not deserve this. I am glad that there was nothing more for them but a big nothing from the Bosmas. They have had enough taken from them.

 

[Inspector_North]

Please don't interpret my comment as excusing MWJ in any way. Gun dealers are dangerous and should be off the streets. And I'm going to continue to follow his case including the AK-47 discharge.

It's just that he's not charged with murder nor was anyone in his crowd except Millard and Smich. It's weird that some people wanted to make him a bigger villain than the two guys convicted of first degree murder.

Thanks for the clarification, and I look forward to following your thorough investigation surrounding this bizarre hole in the hanger gang, and your book that will be released later this year.

Question: Since your book will be released prior to the lifting of publication bans, are you planning more on the subject?

MOO

 

[hellkat2]

Who was the blonde lady who showed up for Millard?

Could it be his mother????

 

[Abitcountry]

I will be brave with you, and say, I still have some doubt as to MS and first degree. I thought maybe it was because I really only had Twitter to go by, and no in court time, but you were there quite a bit and still have doubts. I do respect the jury's verdict, and hope they got it right. While we all want justice for Tim, it needs to be the right people with the right sentences. I hope for the sake of all families involved that they got it right

That said, especially based on Dungeys comments, MS will definitely appeal. I think the grounds they will appeal on will be the "bad character" evidence that was allowed in for MS (drug dealing, tricky scales, rap lyrics) whe much similar evidence for Millard was not allowed. Correct me if i. Wrong, but I believe they have 90 days to appeal? An interesting few months coming up

So if there is an appeal, which do you think will come first ....the appeal or the trial for Laura Babcock?
And I wonder if the issue will be settled once and for all with a second conviction?

 

[hellkat2]

I agree with you. Bad choice for him. He tried to raise reasonable doubt but all he managed to accomplish was showing that he is a liar and . His 'boy next door' image didnt work. Hooray! MOO

It dragged things out for them both and they got outings. The outcome would have been no different. IMO

 

[hellkat2]

I'm convinced TB was killed the in field right after leaving on the drive. If I'm going to kill you, I want to do it right away, so that in an hour from now when his wife starts to worry, you're already in Waterloo getting rid of evidence. I'm thinking they pulled into the field, tried to get him out of the truck where the plan was to execute and put in the truck bed...but TB wouldn't get out, and was killed in the struggle. MS and his defence team built a story around the bobcat video.

Yes Yes Yes. Very well stated.

 

[Inspector_North]

Millard smiling at Smich is pure anger. Kind of looking at him like you know what is in store for you in prison as a rat? IMO....this is what this is all about. Millard is a sick predatory murdering creep and so is Smich.

MS may just have a easier time of it. DM will not be winning anyone over with his smile, but MS is a very cunning street smart criminal, and will adjust just fine. DM pointed the finger through his legal team, and is also a rat.

MOO

 

[Ontario Mom]

Great post and I agree with much of what you say. Having a difference of opinion or not being 100% sure of MS being guilty of M1 does not make one a "fan" or supporter or innocence crusader. I have not seen any posts portraying that. Not everything is black and white for all. I respect everyones opinions and contributions to the board.

Now on MS once all the other trials are over and I hear about the evidence in Laura's trial I may be eating crow or may not be. We shall see. But I always try to stay humble and enjoy the reasons this great site exists.

Still catching up from last night but I really wanted to mention that for those who had reasonable doubt about MS being guilty of 1st degree murder (and I was there for a long time), I think the struggle there is not knowing what we don't know. The thing is, there IS evidence in this case that is also connected to LB's case (as well as WM's case) but we couldn't hear about it or know about it. Neither could the jury, but I still believe they came to the right decision. I have a gut feeling that if Laura's trial would have been first and we heard all the damning evidence the Crown has against these two creeps (the Crown doesn't just go around tossing out 1st degree murder charges like candy canes at the Santa Claus parade - it has to be some pretty damning evidence they're protecting), there would have been no doubt at all once we heard the evidence in the trial for justice for Tim.

I'll guess part of the reason some folks were persuaded by MS testimony is because much of it did sound believable. But did it sound believable because it was the truth, or because he crafted it to fit the evidence already presented? I suspect it's probably a bit of both. If we weave just enough truth into a lie, the lie sounds more credible. I think that's what he did in an attempt to get a lesser verdict from the jury.

moo.

 

[hellkat2]

Good comment - it was worth getting blocked.

I miss something here? What was the comment? he he....must have been really good.

 

[Typhoo1961]

I miss something here? What was the comment? he he....must have been really good.

It was very good. LOL

 

[hellkat2]

Although they could have gotten their DNA many many times in the last 3 years it would never have been able to be introduced into a trial if need be.
Now they can actually link their DNA to other crimes, should it be there

Good, and I hope they search thoroughly to see if it matches up with any other poor victims.

 

[hellkat2]

i believe they are instructed not to look at the stuff they missed but I could be wrong.

I think that everything the jurors read will just confirm that they made the correct decision. They will be losing no sleep is my hope.

 

[hellkat2]

Dellen Millard walked in, stared right at Sharlene Bosma and shook his head.
by Adam Carter 4:28 PM

The courtroom erupted with noise. Some people laughed at him.
by Adam Carter 4:29 PM

Millard's lawyers immediately went over to talk to him after he did that.
by Adam Carter 4:29 PM

It will be the last time she has to breath the same air as this creep.