Verdict Watch Thread Saturday July 13

[IzzyBlanche]

NCgramma linked to this article in the media thread,
I find this utterly appalling. Firing the whistleblower??? What will be next? I doubt Angela Corey will be elected to another term.

The state holding onto the text messages on TMs phone is incomprehensible. The judge didn't allow them in because they couldn't be "verified". The defense didn't have the time to verify these messages before the trial, but one would bet IF GZ is convicted of anything this will come up on appeal. IMO

State Attorney Angela Corey fires information techonology director who raised concerns in Trayvon Martin case

I totally agree. In CA we have laws to protect whistleblowers. I guess no such laws in FL.

 

[nnglas]

Do you think police would agree that's what he should have done?

Approach a young man he doesn't recognize and he believes was acting suspiciously, in a neighborhood with a marked crime problem, and ask them to get in his car?

I think LE would say DON'T DO THAT!!

IMHO

Just like it was suggested not to follow him in the first place.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Moonie]

This may have already been posted, but here's how long it took a jury to reach a verdict in some other high profile cases:

Jody Arias - Jurors took nearly 15 hours to find Jodi Arias guilty of first-degree murder in the death of her ex-boyfriend Travis Alexander.

Casey Anthony - acquitted of first-degree murder in the death of her 2-year-old daughter, Caylee. The jury deliberated 10 hours and 40 minutes.

Jerry Sandusky - found guilty of 45 of 48 counts of child sex abuse after a jury deliberated for more than 20 hours over two days.

Drew Peterson - After almost 14 hours, jurors found him guilty in the death of his fourth wife, Kathleen Savio.

OJ Simpson - acquitted of two counts of murder in the deaths of his wife, Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend Ronald Goldman. Jurors deliberated for less than four hours.

Phil Spector - Jurors from the second Phil Spector trial deliberated for 30 hours and convicted him of second-degree murder in the death of Lana Clarkson.

Robert Blake - After 35 hours of deliberations, stretched out over nine days, jurors acquitted him of first-degree murder in his wife's death.

Scott Peterson - was convicted of first-degree and second-degree murder for killing his wife and their unborn child. The jury deliberated for seven days.

Menendez Brothers - After four days of deliberations, the brothers were convicted of two counts of first-degree murder for killing their parents.


http://www.hlntv.com/slideshow/2013/03/19/jodi-arias-trial-famous-trial-deliberation-times

 

[logicalgirl]

"We don't need you to do that..." it was NOT an order but more having to do with safety concerns. If they had told him to follow this young man they might have been looking at a lawsuit if gz was hurt. They never ordered it. moo

If you go back to the woman at trial who testified about the Neighbourhood Watch "rules" for their complex - it was to watch, observe and call-in. They were absolutely against engaging.....

IMO

 

[Beyond Belief]

He was saying that if you are uncertain of a point of fact you must give weight to the explanation that favors innocence over the explanation that favors guilt. It's normally included, wasn't here.

Thank you, it sounded important! IMO

 

[nnglas]

What people seem to be forgetting when complaining about what gets let in and what doesn't is if the defense opens the door to letting TM's texts etc from the past in - they are also opening the door to the State going back into GZ's past and tracking anything he's posted or texted etc.

As much as the defense protested - they didn't really want that to happen. All decisions by the Judge always have two sides - people forget that.

IMO

Yep. Like his myspace page that showed he wasn't necessarily color blind.


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[qwerty2013]

Do you know what would happen if the person firing the gun only used one hand? Would the "recoil" be stronger???

I would defer to Mahouston and mc00w who appear to be gun experts, but I found this video of a boy firing the gun, and it seems a weaker hand brought about more recoil. The recoil here is huge, IMO:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NW5U6vwtao8"]Kel Tec PF 9 recoil and 10 yard shooting - YouTube[/ame]

:twocents::twocents:

 

[kimlynn]

I don't think I would have much sympathy for TM if I were GZ. TM created this mess when he attacked him and it's basically ruined GZ's life. He was defending himself imo.

But GZ might have the thought that if only he had stayed in his car and waited for LE that none of this would have happened and he would be free to live his life and Trayvon would still be alive.
That is what I would be thinking if I were GZ.
I would also hate the loss of life even if I felt it were justified if I were GZ.
IMO

 

[logicalgirl]

In January, he used computer software technology to extract photographs and text messages from the source file in Martin’s cellphone. Kruidbos was able to recover more information than the Florida Department of Law Enforcement obtained previously.

GETTING LEGAL ADVICE

Kruidbos said he became concerned that lead prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda might not have turned over Kruidbos’ report to defense attorneys. Kruidbos asked White in April for legal advice and described some contents of his report such as a photo of an African-American hand holding a gun, a photo of a plant resembling marijuana and a text message referring to a gun transaction.

White then contacted one of Zimmerman’s attorneys and learned the defense had not received the report generated by Kruidbos. The defense did receive the source file from the cellphone and used its own experts to extract data.


Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/...techonology-director-who?page=1#ixzz2Yx0KQ3yz

Thank you for this. I see no information that tells me this employee sat down with his employer and told him he was unhappy with the situation and was going to the defense with the information.

And I do understand that whistleblower's have rights. However, there is a process to follow to protect your own rights if you are going to blow the whistle.

And we don't know if this was why he was fired today or yesterday or if something else has happened since the "whistleblowing".
IMO

 

[Schuby]

I would defer to Mahouston and mc00w who appear to be gun experts, but I found this video of a boy firing the gun, and it seems a weaker hand brought about more recoil. The recoil here is huge, IMO:

Kel Tec PF 9 recoil and 10 yard shooting - YouTube

:twocents::twocents:

A gun doesn't recoil more or less based on the strength on one's grip. The force of recoil is constant. What changes is you're ability to counter the force of that recoil.

 

[qwerty2013]

Jury instructions can be found here:

http://documents.latimes.com/zimmerman-final-jury-instructions/

 

[bellaalex]

Can't find the exact location without looking through that morning, but she DID tell West that if it were to be excluded ,it would be because of authenticity when they were arguing that evening.

She doesn't care if she gets reversed - she even SAID that - as long as she can pass the buck. She'd rather take a reversal than have the acquittal on her watch.


IMO

WOW. Just WOW

I agree with you.

 

[TorisMom003]

If you go back to the woman at trial who testified about the Neighbourhood Watch "rules" for their complex - it was to watch, observe and call-in. They were absolutely against engaging.....

IMO

I think this is one of the things that bothers me the most. Zimmerman was instrumental in getting the neighborhood watch going in the neighborhood. He was the one that was trading emails back and forth with the LE representative that came out to "train" the neighborhood watch volunteers. He was the one that was placed in the Neighborhood Watch Captain role and was the person that neighbors were told to contact, after calling LE, to notify about crimes in the neighborhood. And yet he is the one that decided to ignore those instructions given during the "training" and ran after someone that he deemed "suspicious" with a loaded gun on his hip. Makes no sense to me at all and just proves to me that Zimmerman decided to do exactly what he wanted to do no matter what anyone told him.

MOO

 

[William N]

All GZ had to do was stay in his car. None of this would have happened. He wasn't a cop - he was a neighbourhood watch volunteer guy.

IMO

AND IMO nothing would have happened if TM had simply walked back to the apartment. He didn't even have to run, just walk, during the four minutes MOM pointed out during his closing.

Furthermore, just what is wrong with being a "neighborhood watch volunteer guy?" I can't tell you how many cases I've seen were lives could have been saved if someone had been keeping watch in other neighborhoods.

 

[Overuled]

If you go back to the woman at trial who testified about the Neighbourhood Watch "rules" for their complex - it was to watch, observe and call-in. They were absolutely against engaging.....

IMO

Yes, they never want to put anyone in harms way. That is the reason for saying "We don't need you to do that". Gz says okay and looks for a house number. No law says you can't follow- not in this country. These are the facts.

I have to agree that he would have been better off if he had stayed in his vehicle but I'm sure he couldn't see into the future and what might happen that night. moo

 

[Reader]

It is too bad that George Zimmerman's involvement in getting justice for a black homeless man beaten up by the then Sanford Police Chief's son was not widely publicized. Anything pro GZ in the media isn't widely reported.
Interestingly enough, the current Judge Nelson was also the judge in the previous case.
http://www.nejamelaw.com/rick-jancha-in-the-news/cops-son-gets-probation.html

http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/05/trayvon_george_and_the_homeless_man.html
From article:
Upset at the lack of media attention, Zimmerman and his wife Shellie printed fliers demanding that the community "hold accountable" officers responsible for any misconduct.

They then drove the fliers around to area churches and passed them out on a Sunday morning. Later, at a public meeting in January 2011, Zimmerman took the floor and said, "I would just like to state that the law is written in black and white. It should not and cannot be enforced in the gray for those that are in the thin blue line."

This meeting was recorded on video. As a result of the publicity, Police Chief Brian Tooley, whom Zimmerman blasted for his "illegal cover-up and corruption," was forced to resign.

Ironically, perhaps, Zimmerman headlined his fliers with a famous quote from Anglo-Irish statesman Edmund Burke: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." He would have been better off quoting another Anglo-Irishman, Oscar Wilde: "No good deed goes unpunished."

<modsnip>


.....................
No good deed goes unpunished. Indeed.

This story was discussed long ago in the old discussions threads. It came from a letter sent out by the Zimmermans when they were starting the first online website for funding before GZ was even arrested.

http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/George...nse-in-Trayvon-Martin-Shooting-146418425.html

A website to raise money for Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman will be hitting the Internet soon, as his family looks to fund his legal defense and cover their living expenses, his attorneys said.

The website "www.zimmermandefense.com" wasn't live early Friday morning and no launch time was specified.

and:

Three pastors of Sanford's largest black churches said they never saw the flyers at their churches, however, and were skeptical that Zimmerman actively organized the black community at that time, theGrio reported.

From the Grio article:

http://thegrio.com/2012/04/06/purpo...ter-demands-naacp-call-off-the-dogs/#46979554

The letter, which is quickly making the rounds of conservative media and blogs, goes on to cite the Ware beating, which the writer said “sparked outrage in the commits but there were very few who stepped up to do anything about it.” Except of course, for George Zimmerman, who the writer claims “stepped up when no one else in the black community would.” ........

Reached for comment Friday, Clayton said that neither he nor the national office of the NAACP ever received a letter, though he has gotten several calls about it over the last couple of days.

Clayton said that whether the letter is authentic or not, the allegations in it are not true.

“We never referred to anybody as a racist,” he said. “All of that is coming from his side,” he added, referring to Zimmerman’s family and supporters.

As for whether he recalls a January 8, 2011 meeting at city call, or Zimmerman’s presence organizing the black community, Clayton said, “No, and I don’t think anybody else does either.” ............

Ware’s attorney at the time of the Collison uproar was Natalie Jackson, now one of the lawyers representing Trayvon Martin’s parents. Speaking to theGrio by phone, Jackson called the tone and content of the letter outrageous, and referred to a letter in which she sharply rebutted the writer.

“I am incensed by some of the efforts to publicly tear our community and make the tragic death of Trayvon Martin as simplistic as a race issue,” Jackson wrote.

Calling the purported Zimmerman family letter “pure propaganda,” Jackson wrote that it “has done a disservice to Zimmerman.” ...........

 

[cubbeegirl]

Yes...And in my very strong opinion.GZ already had his gun out.

IMO, GZ tried to play cop and hold TM at gunpoint and maybe even grabbed his arm to try to force TM to wait for LE and that's what led to all of TM's (IMO) repeated calls for help.

Imo, I think when no one came to help, in desperation, TM tried hitting GZ to try to get away and GZ panicked and shot him then, then lied to LE about how everything happened knowing TM could not refute his tale....to try to save himself.

That is my theory of what happened. I wish there were more proof, but I hope GZ gets manslaughter.

It is a fact that GZ followed and harassed TM, and did not choose to follow LE advice to not follow him.

It is a fact that TM was trying to get away. GZ even said he was running away.

It does not make sense to me that TM would want to get away and circle back to confront at the same time.

Chicky, you know I love you... but it is NOT a fact that George had LE tell him not to follow....911 who are not LE told him ..." we dont need you to do that".. 911 is not LE...
Love ya !


All posts are MOO

 

[Just Sailing Thru]

From orlando sentinal: tweet Some outlets reporting they worked thru lunch. Court spokeswoman said they wouldn't. RT @Will_bama_fan: @JeffWeinerOS looks like 9 hrs

 

[m00c0w]

I would defer to Mahouston and mc00w who appear to be gun experts, but I found this video of a boy firing the gun, and it seems a weaker hand brought about more recoil. The recoil here is huge, IMO:

Kel Tec PF 9 recoil and 10 yard shooting - YouTube

:twocents::twocents:

Well, technically the recoil never changes. Just the ability for the person to manage the recoil.

Shooting one-handed is often unstable and actually used in many varieties of firearm tests. One of which is the effect limp-wristing has on the firearm, since it's more prevalent when using only one hand. This is why the ATF and other government agencies refrained from using the P250 as their service weapon - too many limp wristing issues which becomes a problem if you're in a fight for your life and the weapon tends to jam when you may not be in the ideal stance (or your primary or off hand is injured/unable to help stabilize the gun).

But, I digress. It is possible that shooting one-handed may have caused Zimmerman to have less control of the weapon. It's possible that the recoil caused the weapon to contact his nose. However, the recoil would have realistically only been able to cause lacerations at best. People that have scopes rammed into their face from improperly shooting high-powered rifles don't often suffer facial fractures, and only minor lacerations above or around the brow area.

:twocents:

 

[logicalgirl]

AND IMO nothing would have happened if TM had simply walked back to the apartment. He didn't even have to run, just walk, during the four minutes MOM pointed out during his closing.

Furthermore, just what is wrong with being a "neighborhood watch volunteer guy?" I can't tell you how many cases I've seen were lives could have been saved if someone had been keeping watch in other neighborhoods.

We have absolutely NO information that gives us factual information about what happened during those four minutes. None at all.
That is simply conjecture for something you want to be true.

IMO