Victim "Peaches" IDd as Tanya Denise Jackson, and toddler IDd as Tatiana Marie Dykes, found Hempstead Lake State Park, June 1997 #4

[snarast]

This exactly! It seems many years ago, I read the infant, Tatiana, died from being left out in the elements and thus it was speculated the perp did not want to physically murder the infant. Also, that it was not completely unheard of for a sex worker to bring their infant on a call with them. Possibly in the book, The Lost Girls. Does any one else recall reading this?

BBM

That was before HK2002-2004. IF it’s RH such concerns are unlikely.

IMHOO

 

[iamshadow21]

This exactly! It seems many years ago, I read the infant, Tatiana, died from being left out in the elements and thus it was speculated the perp did not want to physically murder the infant. Also, that it was not completely unheard of for a sex worker to bring their infant on a call with them. Possibly in the book, The Lost Girls. Does any one else recall reading this?

There is no known cause of death for Tatiana, as far as I know, because she was found over a decade after her death and her remains showed no skeletal trauma.

Exposure was a theory talked over on the threads, no more. There are plenty of ways a toddler could die that don't leave signs on the bones.

MOO

 

[bricker]

Listening back on Nassau's press conference and the chief's interview, it appears as though they aren't really certain about Tanya's activities. They say that she was "possibly" working at a doctor's office. They say that she had a friend who minded Taitiana, and that they would like to speak to that friend. It's all so vague and uncertain.

 

[pixiepixel]

Listening back on Nassau's press conference and the chief's interview, it appears as though they aren't really certain about Tanya's activities. They say that she was "possibly" working at a doctor's office. They say that she had a friend who minded Taitiana, and that they would like to speak to that friend. It's all so vague and uncertain.

This is all probably info that came from her estranged family, is my guess. I doubt they have contact with anyone who actually knew Tanya in New York yet. This is likely why they chose to release her identity now - in an effort to generate more leads.

 

[Megnut]

Listening back on Nassau's press conference and the chief's interview, it appears as though they aren't really certain about Tanya's activities. They say that she was "possibly" working at a doctor's office. They say that she had a friend who minded Taitiana, and that they would like to speak to that friend. It's all so vague and uncertain.

Perhaps that is what she told her family before refusing their calls (I'm theorizing that breaking off communication is what led them to think they were estranged when actually she was probably sadly dead). If she resorted to SW, she wouldn't be the first single mom to keep that a secret, and she wouldn't be the first to bring a child along, without daycare options. If RH is responsible for her murder, it's possible he didn't even know she had a child until he went to dispose of her vehicle. He also could have found her through the normal course of events. Want ads. Job offers.

He preyed on vulnerable women.

How ever he might have shared her, she maybe had no one local to even know she went missing. No employer, no family...and maybe a landlord who didn't look very hard, or didn't even know where to look, whom to call.

Mother and child have their names back. Now may they get their justice, young lives cut brutally short, may the perpetrator be held to account.

JMO

 

[bricker]

This is all probably info that came from her estranged family, is my guess. I doubt they have contact with anyone who actually knew Tanya in New York yet. This is likely why they chose to release her identity now - in an effort to generate more leads.

That or it came from the child's father or someone related.

 

[Springrain]

I need to catch up on this thread, but JMO, I doubt RH did this. The only way I could see it feasibly happening was if Tanya was bringing Tatiana to a park (as others have mentioned) or on another outdoor outing, and he managed to stalk and kill them. But I really don't think that's what happened.

To me, this seems like domestic violence IMO. I don't think it was random or an SK. Dismemberment isn't exclusive to RH.

 

[wintersbro]

So I have a habit of putting long compilations of old commercials on in the background when I’m doing my research. I had one compilation on today that was from May 1997 on ABC. I couldn’t believe my ears when I heard “Wamsutta” coming from the TV. About 40 or so pages back, someone did the excellent work of finding out the pillowcase that was with Peaches was “Wamsutta Supercale”. So this Wamsutta commercial aired just a month before Peaches’ murder. I know there was much speculation as to what stores sold Wamsutta in 1997. This Wamsutta commercial said their products could be found in Linens n’ Things which is a now defunct home goods store similar to Bed Bath & Beyond. Being an LI native I remember there being a number of Linens n’ Things stores before they closed.

At any rate, I thought I’d share this info as it does confirm at least one store where the pillowcase could’ve come from. I’ve long agonized over the thought that if they figured out where the pillowcase came from sooner, they could’ve figured out the store it was from, maybe what “batch” it was from in the factory based upon analysis of fiber stitchings for example. My point is, from just this pillowcase they could’ve extracted a ton of information that could’ve led to figuring out who bought this and maybe who killed her.

Hi Do you still have this video? It shows unavailable now

 

[snarast]

I need to catch up on this thread, but JMO, I doubt RH did this. The only way I could see it feasibly happening was if Tanya was bringing Tatiana to a park (as others have mentioned) or on another outdoor outing, and he managed to stalk and kill them. But I really don't think that's what happened.

To me, this seems like domestic violence IMO. I don't think it was random or an SK. Dismemberment isn't exclusive to RH.

I can see what you mean but - Tatiana is so close to parts of Valerie.

That said, maybe it’s more complex somehow. I hope RH didn’t have a partner, like Leonard Lake did.

 

[snooptroop88]

I can see what you mean but - Tatiana is so close to parts of Valerie.

That said, maybe it’s more complex somehow. I hope RH didn’t have a partner, like Leonard Lake did.

JMO, there's no, no, no way this is anyone but RH. He's imo a narcisstic sadistic serial murderer, and the remains of Tanya and Tatiana were in close proximity to victims where he's already been charged, and there's no way imo he'll escape conviction. Would a narcisst like RH really be interested in a dumping grounds where he would have to share with another murdering lunatic? Agreed, maybe with an actual confederate of his if one actually exists, but otherwise, not a prayer, again, jmo. There's no way this isn't him in my mind, and I'm already operating on the assumption that this is him. If so, he not only murders human beings and makes the human beings disappear, he makes entire vehicles disappear into thin air, too. How's he doing that? My guess would be submerging them in large bodies of water, he undoubtedly knows where plenty of more obscure boat launches are, but this is guess only. But what about the plates? Guess only, submerged also, but elsewhere, and defaced and destroyed prior to their disposal. Or maybe built into pieces of furniture with his famous cabinetmaker's hammer, or in some manner completely destroyed with the elaborate tools in his workshop. How did he know where the vehicle was? There's no way I think he'd ever have a victim drive to any location associated with him, and based on what Nikkie Brass said about vehicles with RH, also no way he'd want any tie to the vehicle/NY Post:

Brass recalled getting “the worst gut feeling” about Heuermann during their dinner date, which she rushed to bring to a close as quickly as possible because she was “so scared.”...Heuermann allegedly tried to talk Brass into leaving her car in the parking lot and riding with him to the hotel room he had booked for them — but the woman refused....“He was like, leave your car; come in mine,” she reportedly said. “He was very adamant about me leaving my car. Looking back, he didn’t want to have to kill somebody and get rid of their car.”

Ex-escort recounts chilling date with accused Gilgo Beach serial killer Rex Heuermann

Former escort Nicole Brass said she got “a really, really bad feeling” during her dinner date with Rex Heuermann.

nypost.com

Would he in theory have returned to dispose of Brass's car? Maybe, jmo, but he definitely wants to distance himself to the extent possible. Following through on the theory, Tanya's vehicle may have somehow become meaningfully tied to him to prompt his disposal of the vehicle. Did he murder her somewhere without knowing she perhaps had a child in the vehicle in some scenario? Or did he learn enough about Tanya to know that a vehicle sitting outside her residence after her murder would eventually emphasize the fact that Tanya was not there to a landlord, what have you? LE's going to learn things about how he operates based on the vehicle, I would think, but it won't bring the victims back.

RIP Tanya and Tatiana.

 

[iamshadow21]

JMO, there's no, no, no way this is anyone but RH. He's imo a narcisstic sadistic serial murderer, and the remains of Tanya and Tatiana were in close proximity to victims where he's already been charged, and there's no way imo he'll escape conviction. Would a narcisst like RH really be interested in a dumping grounds where he would have to share with another murdering lunatic? Agreed, maybe with an actual confederate of his if one actually exists, but otherwise, not a prayer, again, jmo. There's no way this isn't him in my mind, and I'm already operating on the assumption that this is him. If so, he not only murders human beings and makes the human beings disappear, he makes entire vehicles disappear into thin air, too. How's he doing that? My guess would be submerging them in large bodies of water, he undoubtedly knows where plenty of more obscure boat launches are, but this is guess only. But what about the plates? Guess only, submerged also, but elsewhere, and defaced and destroyed prior to their disposal. Or maybe built into pieces of furniture with his famous cabinetmaker's hammer, or in some manner completely destroyed with the elaborate tools in his workshop. How did he know where the vehicle was? There's no way I think he'd ever have a victim drive to any location associated with him, and based on what Nikkie Brass said about vehicles with RH, also no way he'd want any tie to the vehicle/NY Post:

Brass recalled getting “the worst gut feeling” about Heuermann during their dinner date, which she rushed to bring to a close as quickly as possible because she was “so scared.”...Heuermann allegedly tried to talk Brass into leaving her car in the parking lot and riding with him to the hotel room he had booked for them — but the woman refused....“He was like, leave your car; come in mine,” she reportedly said. “He was very adamant about me leaving my car. Looking back, he didn’t want to have to kill somebody and get rid of their car.”

Ex-escort recounts chilling date with accused Gilgo Beach serial killer Rex Heuermann

Former escort Nicole Brass said she got “a really, really bad feeling” during her dinner date with Rex Heuermann.

nypost.com

Would he in theory have returned to dispose of Brass's car? Maybe, jmo, but he definitely wants to distance himself to the extent possible. Following through on the theory, Tanya's vehicle may have somehow become meaningfully tied to him to prompt his disposal of the vehicle. Did he murder her somewhere without knowing she perhaps had a child in the vehicle in some scenario? Or did he learn enough about Tanya to know that a vehicle sitting outside her residence after her murder would eventually emphasize the fact that Tanya was not there to a landlord, what have you? LE's going to learn things about how he operates based on the vehicle, I would think, but it won't bring the victims back.

RIP Tanya and Tatiana.

I think that it would be far quicker and easier to leave the cars in high crime areas unlocked. Let the car thieves and chop shops do the work for him; they're far better at erasing a vehicle's identity than he would have been.

MOO

 

[CuriousCricket]

New Article: Gilgo Beach murders: Peaches’ ID sparks questions

 

[Lirael]

JMO, there's no, no, no way this is anyone but RH. He's imo a narcisstic sadistic serial murderer, and the remains of Tanya and Tatiana were in close proximity to victims where he's already been charged, and there's no way imo he'll escape conviction. Would a narcisst like RH really be interested in a dumping grounds where he would have to share with another murdering lunatic? Agreed, maybe with an actual confederate of his if one actually exists, but otherwise, not a prayer, again, jmo. There's no way this isn't him in my mind, and I'm already operating on the assumption that this is him. If so, he not only murders human beings and makes the human beings disappear, he makes entire vehicles disappear into thin air, too. How's he doing that? My guess would be submerging them in large bodies of water, he undoubtedly knows where plenty of more obscure boat launches are, but this is guess only. But what about the plates? Guess only, submerged also, but elsewhere, and defaced and destroyed prior to their disposal. Or maybe built into pieces of furniture with his famous cabinetmaker's hammer, or in some manner completely destroyed with the elaborate tools in his workshop. How did he know where the vehicle was? There's no way I think he'd ever have a victim drive to any location associated with him, and based on what Nikkie Brass said about vehicles with RH, also no way he'd want any tie to the vehicle/NY Post:

Brass recalled getting “the worst gut feeling” about Heuermann during their dinner date, which she rushed to bring to a close as quickly as possible because she was “so scared.”...Heuermann allegedly tried to talk Brass into leaving her car in the parking lot and riding with him to the hotel room he had booked for them — but the woman refused....“He was like, leave your car; come in mine,” she reportedly said. “He was very adamant about me leaving my car. Looking back, he didn’t want to have to kill somebody and get rid of their car.”

Ex-escort recounts chilling date with accused Gilgo Beach serial killer Rex Heuermann

Former escort Nicole Brass said she got “a really, really bad feeling” during her dinner date with Rex Heuermann.

nypost.com

Would he in theory have returned to dispose of Brass's car? Maybe, jmo, but he definitely wants to distance himself to the extent possible. Following through on the theory, Tanya's vehicle may have somehow become meaningfully tied to him to prompt his disposal of the vehicle. Did he murder her somewhere without knowing she perhaps had a child in the vehicle in some scenario? Or did he learn enough about Tanya to know that a vehicle sitting outside her residence after her murder would eventually emphasize the fact that Tanya was not there to a landlord, what have you? LE's going to learn things about how he operates based on the vehicle, I would think, but it won't bring the victims back.

RIP Tanya and Tatiana.

I agree that Tanya and Tatiana are likely RH victims, but I don't think the idea of him not wanting to "share" a dump site with another killer is a plausible theory to support it. Picking a dump site isn't like picking an apartment or a seat on the bus. There are no designated areas set aside and advertised as a place for killers to hide bodies. ANY place can be used, whether it's some remote stretch of road or a literal dumpster in the middle of a busy city.

If Tanya and Tatiana were killed by someone other than RH, he would have had no way of knowing where their remains were, or that they even existed. The park where Tanya's torso was found in 1997 is at least 10 miles from other known dump sites. Her limbs were about 2 miles from some of Karen Vergata's remains, which is pretty far. Valerie Mack's partial remains were found about half a mile from Tatiana, which may sound close but that's a 10 minute walk on a clear pathway if you're going fast. With how overgrown and difficult to traverse the area was at the time, and Tatiana having died three years earlier, it would have been very easy for two different killers to dispose of victims that close together without ever knowing the dump site was being "shared".

 

[aurycore]

im so glad they finally got their names back. their lives were taken too soon.

 

[snooptroop88]

I agree that Tanya and Tatiana are likely RH victims, but I don't think the idea of him not wanting to "share" a dump site with another killer is a plausible theory to support it. Picking a dump site isn't like picking an apartment or a seat on the bus. There are no designated areas set aside and advertised as a place for killers to hide bodies. ANY place can be used, whether it's some remote stretch of road or a literal dumpster in the middle of a busy city.

If Tanya and Tatiana were killed by someone other than RH, he would have had no way of knowing where their remains were, or that they even existed. The park where Tanya's torso was found in 1997 is at least 10 miles from other known dump sites. Her limbs were about 2 miles from some of Karen Vergata's remains, which is pretty far. Valerie Mack's partial remains were found about half a mile from Tatiana, which may sound close but that's a 10 minute walk on a clear pathway if you're going fast. With how overgrown and difficult to traverse the area was at the time, and Tatiana having died three years earlier, it would have been very easy for two different killers to dispose of victims that close together without ever knowing the dump site was being "shared".

I would guess this particular killer wanted exclusivity and was confident enough that he'd probably have it at the stretch that became his burial grounds at OP. He sought distance and concealment-- and at OP, that would include from other murderers. That was a critically important site for him. I'm sure he took at least some precautions to at least try to ensure he had that exclusivity. And we already know RH has been charged with murdering six of the Ocean Parkway victims: Gilgo 4, Jessica Taylor, and Valerie Mack, And the spacing on these individual points-- he's keenly aware of who he's already placed out there and where. He is marking points somehow in his mind. There's clearly some navigating going on there. You can vividly see it in the placement and timing of the disposals at that stretch. Tanya's remains are at one end of it, placed there I would guess AFTER earlier Karen Vergata's remains are already there. And at the other end, Tanya's baby Tatiana is there. And in the years that follow, the space between the remains of mother and daughter are being filled with more victims, jmo, there's no way that's random. Mindhunter manipulator RH didn't accidentally start disposing of victims somehow coincidentally between the only two victims with a known biological tie. That's a pattern, you can even see a general movement from east to west in terms of the disposal site points within that OP stretch, corresponding to estimated time of death for each victim, and the pattern itself seems to start with and center on Tanya and Tatiana. Any lengthier distance in terms of Jones Beach and Tobay is negated by the fact that he knew those particular areas like the back of his hand from the days of his youth when he was actually working there.

And I'm sure he himself considered that not many murderers had the benefit of having worked the grounds at Jones Beach, and I'm sure he considered the very difficult terrain on that OP stretch as a deterrent for others, and in the end, I believe he was right. Any areas he wasn't already familiar with, I believe he carefully surveilled them, just as he did with his targets and pick up points, and we know this from HK doc. Yes, I do think he was scoping out that stretch on Ocean Parkway with some level of serious precision, and I really do think he viewed it as "his."

You raise the question of whether it would be possible for him to avoid "sharing", and I agree with you that it obviously can't be guaranteed. But he's placing those bodies in relatively close proximity to each other in something of a closed area in a pattern, so my guess is he was plodding through all over it over the years, but it's guess only. And I also guess that the reason he chose a spot that was so difficult to traverse was because it made it all the more likely it would be his and his alone. He may not have cared much about exclusivity elsewhere, but I bet he very much cared about the issue at that stretch on Ocean Parkway. When LE uncovered Ocean Parkway, they breached his last, most powerful defense. And that was the end of him. He was into that Mindhunter idea of understanding the artist (perp) from the painting (victim). So he played a sick game by which the "painting" was never complete enough for LE until they found the remains at Ocean Parkway, which he never thought they, or anyone else, would probably ever find.

 

[snarast]

I agree that Tanya and Tatiana are likely RH victims, but I don't think the idea of him not wanting to "share" a dump site with another killer is a plausible theory to support it. Picking a dump site isn't like picking an apartment or a seat on the bus. There are no designated areas set aside and advertised as a place for killers to hide bodies. ANY place can be used, whether it's some remote stretch of road or a literal dumpster in the middle of a busy city.

If Tanya and Tatiana were killed by someone other than RH, he would have had no way of knowing where their remains were, or that they even existed. The park where Tanya's torso was found in 1997 is at least 10 miles from other known dump sites. Her limbs were about 2 miles from some of Karen Vergata's remains, which is pretty far. Valerie Mack's partial remains were found about half a mile from Tatiana, which may sound close but that's a 10 minute walk on a clear pathway if you're going fast. With how overgrown and difficult to traverse the area was at the time, and Tatiana having died three years earlier, it would have been very easy for two different killers to dispose of victims that close together without ever knowing the dump site was being "shared".

Not half a mile. 0.04 miles or 70 meters. That is a stone’s throw.

this is closer together than any of the GB4 pairs.

 

[Just K]

Been thinking about that as well. We're coming up on 28 years this summer when it might have been found. Wonder if records of "abandoned" vehicles would go back that far? Would it have been pulled in and kept in a garage for the owner to pick up? Tanya was found within about 3 days of her death, wouldn't it have made sense for LE to have wondered about any abandoned vehicle in the area? Wonder if they were close enough together for it to have registered with Law Enforcement?

Even if LE did not put it together them, might LE now have some idea where she vanished from? Of course, if it sat for sometime, anyone could have stolen it, I suppose.

Nassau County authorities have known Tanya's identity for over a yea. So time it would seem to search for the vehicle. Wouldn't we love to know if they found anything?

They can find the vin # based on where she lived and where her car was registered. Then possibly they could do a national search using the vin # to see where it ended up. Do scrapyards have to re ord vin #s when the receive vehicles?

 

[Fanboi92]

RH was hired in 2005 to do renovations for a shooting range and a female colleague met him there. I wonder if it was “Pioneer Shooting Range”. I think the ceiling and the columns match, and this target could look like a beer bottle. More like a milk bottle but..
If it is the place, I wonder if he just did a job there or if he frequented this place even before he did the work there? It claims to be the oldest operating range in Westchester County so I’m sure it was open when Tanya lived in NY too. It’s possible they could have met there.
(it’s also very close to where Veronica Wiederhold was found in 88.)

“A month after working in the house, she met Heuermann in the Bronx at a firing range where he had been hired for some renovations.
While there, he gave her a lesson.
'I met him out there and measured the gun range,' she said. 'And afterwards, he taught me how to fire a 9mm. I didn't know he was so into guns, but here we were.

'He was telling me how to place my hands under the hammer so when the hammer went back it didn't hit me,' she explained.
'I fired like four or five shots and I hit the target, a picture of a beer bottle. It was pretty intense.'”

Rex Heuermann refused to let interior designer measure locked room

Interior designer Katherine Shepherd told DailyMail.com how Rex Heuermann did not allow her to enter a room in his basement at his Massapequa Park in 2005.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Photo 1: RH at a firing range where he was hired to work
Photo 2: Google image from Pioneer Shooting Range in Mount Vernon, NY showing ceiling, column, and what could be a beer bottle shaped target

OMG, that’s less than a block from where I live too! I must of pass that place a a million times!

 

[chetlemouge]

I need to catch up on this thread, but JMO, I doubt RH did this. The only way I could see it feasibly happening was if Tanya was bringing Tatiana to a park (as others have mentioned) or on another outdoor outing, and he managed to stalk and kill them. But I really don't think that's what happened.

To me, this seems like domestic violence IMO. I don't think it was random or an SK. Dismemberment isn't exclusive to RH.

JMO, I don't see any reason to believe this was anyone other than RH. A domestic violence murder would not have such precise and deliberate dumping locations – a wooded area near a family fishing derby where the body was definitely intended to be found. Two sets of remains on Ocean Parkway, where 10 other SK victims were found. As far as we know, Tanya's skull has yet to be found – nor has Karen Vergata's torso, and I'm not sure if Jessica Taylor and Valerie Mack's remains were all totally recovered, and there are likely more dump sites.

This was the work of an organized killer who knew Long Island. An abusive boyfriend in Brooklyn would not know, most likely, to think of a place like Hempstead Lake, and might know Jones Beach exists but not know how desolate Ocean Parkway is. An abusive boyfriend in Brooklyn likely wouldn't be able to leave so little trace of his actions either. This was an organized and planned act, not a crime of passion.

I am about 99% sure this was RH. I'll put it this way; I'd be more interested to hear a claim that Bittrolff or another serial killer did this, and I don't think that is the case whatsoever either.

 

[snarast]

Tanya seems to have had so much going for her, it’s infinitely saddening she and her little Tatiana ended up a ghastly man’s victims.