WA - Amtrak passenger train derails near Tacoma

[TeaTime]

It looks like the front locomotive slowed for the curve but the rear one did not.

 

[jessie]

Thought I should update that sadly both people my friends were looking for were identified as deceased in the crash. I hope other families found out better news this morning than my friends. (to be clear I haven't met these folks but they are friends/family of friends of mine)

I am so sad to read this. My sincere condolences. :rose: :rose:

 

[bronk4]

I totally agree........it just doesn't make any sense at all to require belts in cars but not buses, etc!
this is just common sense

 

[jessie]

Could it have been caused by anything such as this that we have experienced locally : Taking the curve too fast ? I do acknowledge the difference between trams and trains.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-caused-by-driver-falling-asleep-and-speeding

Investigators have said they believe the Croydon tram crash was caused by the driver briefly falling asleep before speeding through a sharp bend, but tram operators had failed to properly understand the risks and put enough safety measures in place.

Inspectors said new measures were needed across Britain’s tram networks, including technology to monitor drivers’ alertness and automatically reduce speeds before dangerous junctions.

Seven passengers were killed and 61 injured, 19 seriously, when the south London Tramlink tram came off the rails on 9 November last year. It was travelling at 73km/h (45mph) in a 20km/h zone.

 

[Niner]

I'm really surprised that there were only 3 deaths! And no one on the road got killed!

Marking my spot!

 

[roche.analisa]

I'm really surprised that there were only 3 deaths! And no one on the road got killed!

Marking my spot!

I think the death toll will climb. There are cars they haven't even been able to get into.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I'm really surprised that there were only 3 deaths! And no one on the road got killed!

Marking my spot!

Reports yesterday indicated there were "at least six" fatalities. Glad to know there weren't as many casualties as originally predicted.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I think the death toll will climb. There are cars they haven't even been able to get into.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Hadn't heard this I also wonder about the conditions of those who are hospitalized.

 

[Jax49]

http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/business/article190319749.html

Hospital officials say at least two people are in critical condition and 11 others are seriously injured after a deadly train derailment outside Seattle.

Four hospitals say 50 people have been hospitalized but didn't immediately report all of their conditions. At least one person was in surgery Monday.

 

[Hraefn]

It looks like the front locomotive slowed for the curve but the rear one did not.

I think that is the rear car that is still on the tracks, the lead car is the one that fell onto the interstate, and the middle cars went off into the wooded area on the other side or were dangling or leaning over the interstate.

 

[roche.analisa]

Hadn't heard this I also wonder about the conditions of those who are hospitalized.

Read on CNN this morning but no longer there so take as rumor.

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[Hraefn]

This is the curve where the derailment occurred. I believe the train was coming from the upper right of the map moving westward to the lower left.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/4...1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d47.0820125!4d-122.6757851

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Amtrak derailment: NTSB searches for cause of deadly accident
by Erik Ortiz

The engineer at the helm of the controls in Monday's deadly Amtrak derailment in Washington state will be a vital figure in learning why the train failed to slow at a tight curve.

Federal investigators will seek to interview the engineer in order to piece together the doomed path of Train 501 of Amtrak's Cascades service, which officials said barreled at 80 mph on what was supposed to be a 30-mph stretch of track.

The engineer's identity me has not been made public. That person along with the other crew members remain hospitalized and will be questioned in the next day or two, said Bella Dinh-Zarr, a National Transportation Safety Board member.

"We want to make sure they're well enough to be interviewed," Dinh-Zarr said early Tuesday on MSNBC...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/amtrak-derailment-ntsb-searches-cause-deadly-accident-n831051

 

[verbonica]

It looks like the front locomotive slowed for the curve but the rear one did not.

The locomotive that you see still on the tracks IS the rear one. They are pulled along facing backwards in one direction of a trip and then they become the puller on the return trip.

 

[Hatfield]

The locomotive that you see still on the tracks IS the rear one. They are pulled along facing backwards in one direction of a trip and then they become the puller on the return trip.

Interesting. That makes sense. Thanks.

I have sometimes seen two locomotives in front of a train pulling. It usually is when the train is very long and must be very heavy that they sometimes need two locomotives in the front to help each other pull the long row of cars.

For this accident I thought I saw a locomotive on the ground so that must have been the one that was near the front.

 

[Betty P]

Ths article says there had.been many practice runs. So how did the engineer not know about the speed of 30 MPH in that curve?

It aggravates me when we read of a new invention such as the speed monitor that will be put on trains to automatically reduce the speed in a situation like what happened here in a few years. Why be so gung ho to put this fast train on the rails when there are known danngerous curves or areas?

Look at the lives lost, people injured by the rush to get the fast train out without the proper safety equipment! If all the equipment isn't ready to go at the same time, the R&D departemenrt needs to speed up their work or hold the train until all parts are ready. Safety comes first,

Well, an engineer doing his job properly should have been able to slow down for the curve. PTC is a back up system. It will be going online in 2018. PTC systems are very expensive and complicated to set up and activate.

The train was switched to this particular route because the other route Amtrak used is very heavily used by the freight trains of the RR that owns and maintains the tracks. All the freight traffic on the other line slows down the Amtrak trains, which have to "take siding" as the freights pass. Makes sense if you're going to have new dedicated high speed rail service to Portland to shift it to a track that can be modified for high speed and can travel without waiting for other trains. The US has long neglected high speed passenger rail and it will take a lot of time and money to build up the current system to accomodate them. It's long overduef as our population grows and demand increases for passenger rail service..

 

[Elley Mae]

Could it have been caused by anything such as this that we have experienced locally : Taking the curve too fast ? I do acknowledge the difference between trams and trains.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...-caused-by-driver-falling-asleep-and-speeding

Investigators have said they believe the Croydon tram crash was caused by the driver briefly falling asleep before speeding through a sharp bend, but tram operators had failed to properly understand the risks and put enough safety measures in place.

Inspectors said new measures were needed across Britain’s tram networks, including technology to monitor drivers’ alertness and automatically reduce speeds before dangerous junctions.

Seven passengers were killed and 61 injured, 19 seriously, when the south London Tramlink tram came off the rails on 9 November last year. It was travelling at 73km/h (45mph) in a 20km/h zone.

Yes, speed is the culprit.

 

[Betty P]

A train derailment in NYC a few years ago was also because of high speeds at a sharp curve. IIRC, the engineer had taken cold medicine and blamed that for impaired thinking. (I didn't fact check that, going off my memory.)

You would think that on a maiden trip, the crew would be excited and hyper aware of their work?

jmo

Yes, that should have been the case. First train in this service would be a big deal and a kind of honor to do. I'm also wondering (just speculation) if there were others (railfans, etc.) who were in the cab area or nearby celebrating, taking photos etc. who were a distraction. Just speculation on my part, not based on facts.

I'm also hoping they were using seasoned, experienced crew and not subcontracting out to inexperienced low cost labor.

 

[verbonica]

Interesting. That makes sense. Thanks.

I have sometimes seen two locomotives in front of a train pulling. It usually is when the train is very long and must be very heavy that they sometimes need two locomotives in the front to help each other pull the long row of cars.

For this accident I thought I saw a locomotive on the ground so that must have been the one that was near the front.

Of course it's a bit more detailed and complicated than my one-liner answer (and sometimes the rear locomotive does some pushing too -- they are equally powerful in reverse). You can look up "Push-Pull Train", or there's a short discussion of it here:
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,1674115

 

[Gardenista]

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Animation of how the #Amtrak train derailed near DuPont yesterday, from @ABC #LiveOnK2

https://twitter.com/KATUNews/status/943224181981790208