Found Deceased WA - Cheryl DeBoer, 54, Mountlake Terrace, 8 February 2016 #6

[mrsgladyskravitz]

Do you recall from your visit there if the access to the creek from that opening was clear of blackberry bushes? If she did enter from that little grassy section you showed in your picture then wouldn't that suggest that she came from the north -> walking south towards the culvert, but stepped off of the eastern side of the road and into the stream before the culvert? Mainly I'm curious if access to the creek was very limited due to blackberry bushes.

Yes, this area does provide unobstructed access to the creek.

This area can be accessed by: 1) Walking south on Cedar Way, towards monument.

2) Walking north on Cedar Way, away from monument.

Based upon current, and presence of brambles, etc. ,
can anyone calculate (with any degree of certainty) situations under which, Cheryl's body could be carried downstream?

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[Treelights]

I always like to think about what was happening right before an incident.

She got a cat. I wonder what else was going on? It was said the month before she planned a vacation. Where did she vacation? For how long?

Maybe she met someone on that vacation that was following her?

IMOO.

 

[ANZAC]

Are you saying that the person you were able to identify in my photograph was of a Sign Cutter designation? (That being the highest and most skilled tracker certification?) (Side note: I would love to take 5 years of my life and dedicate it to a course like that!)

I don't know his designation. He's got extensive training and experience though.

The trackers have a tougher time coming in after the initial body recovery though where a lot of people have been on scene.

King Co also has at least two commissioned LEO trackers, not sure if SnoCo does.

 

[mrsgladyskravitz]

I am new here. Cheryl got her kitty from me on Friday night. This is her third kitty from me in about ten years. She and her husband work magic with kitties that need lots of love and patience. Her first kitty died of old age in September and she contacted me and asked if I would be willing to hold this kitty until February. She had a vacation planned in January and wanted to be sure she would be home long term to help him acclimate. This is how I know it's not a suicide. Why wait months for a cat and then kill herself?
I picked up the cat on Wednesday after she was taken and he was his normal happy self and not traumatized or injured in any way. Her son carried him out to the living room and he was completely calm. This is a ten year old cat who is very sensitive.
Also she was an avid hunter and carried a 357. If she was going to kill herself that would be a much better way. This was not a suicide.
Also the cats I raise are raised on raw meat from the butcher shop down the road. It's a custom blend. Maybe she was trying some different foods. I saw both cats and neither had any injuries nor did they seem traumatized at all.

Deepest appreciation for sharing these very personal and important details.
A big hug to you, as you mourn the loss of Cheryl, an obviously incredible woman.

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[perfectingpink]

Someone help me out here. When you drown, you sink and when in cold water, you do stay at the bottom longer than if you were in warm water. I am wondering if Cheryl was carried by the current while she was still at the bottom or has she begun to float and was then carried. It seems to me, from other cases, that not enough time had passed for Cheryl's body to have become buoyant in these conditions and with that assumption when Cheryl's body was carried by the current, she would have scraped the bottom and had visible injuries along with her clothes becoming disheveled.

My goodness, I am not sure if this makes any better sense!!!!!!!!!

 

[kammiemc]

Well, no disrespect, is Big Foot accounted for? Animal blood, in a culvert almost a mile and half away from her car, no signs she walked there, no signs she drove there, cuts on fingers, bag on head, and face down in two feet of water..... how many people actually drown in water WITHOUT ANY MEDS OR DRUGS INVOLVED in such a small amount of water? You can't! You would involuntarily push yourself up with your arms, or roll over, or stand up when the urge to BREATH becomes so intense that you can't stop it.

No, this doesn't sound like a suicide. In a pond, or lake, maybe, but, not in 2 ft of water! Not with a bag over your head that isn't tightly secured, and with your hands able to remove the bag, push yourself out of the water, etc. No. Just NO!

Whoever did this to Cheryl, they will pay.

Knowing Cheryl was a cat lover breaks my heart even more. I had a Siamese kitten that was very shy, and considered 'not adoptable' by the rescue. My parents have him now, and it's adorable, but doesn't like strangers. He sleeps with my Mom and they love him!

It takes a special person to want the 'unadoptable' pets of the world. Cheryl will be missed by the humans and the animals.

I now find it impossible to rule out suicide. Although I understand that it also could be a murder staged like a suicide--although very strangely even so (animal blood?) I guess the one thing that has been ruled out in my mind is something totally random.
Also, have to rule out someone placing a restaurant bag over their head as a drizzle-repellent.


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[steelman]

Someone help me out here. When you drown, you sink and with cold water, you do not rise as quickly. So am I right to assume if Cheryl's was carried by the current, it would be on the bottom of the very rocky ditch therefore injuring her body? I guess she could have surfaced and then traveled, but that water had to have been very cold, which would mean, to me, she didn't surface for quite a while, right?

She was found in the bottom of a concrete culvert which on an average day might have 2 feet of water flowing through it.......if that. I don't think she was as much submerged as she was floating. Nobody searched that area for days and days.........why would they.....it was a mile and a half from where she was last known to be.

 

[kammiemc]

Do you recall from your visit there if the access to the creek from that opening was clear of blackberry bushes? If she did enter from that little grassy section you showed in your picture then wouldn't that suggest that she came from the north -> walking south towards the culvert, but stepped off of the eastern side of the road and into the stream before the culvert? Mainly I'm curious if access to the creek was very limited due to blackberry bushes.

Yes, this area does provide unobstructed access to the creek.

This area can be accessed by: 1) Walking south on Cedar Way, towards monument.

2) Walking north on Cedar Way, away from monument.

Based upon current, and presence of brambles, etc. ,
can anyone calculate (with any degree of certainty) situations under which, Cheryl's body could be carried downstream?

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Boy when I saw that creek/ditch in person, it sure didn't look to me like a body could travel in it to reach the culvert. It looked like there was too much grass and too many twigs and branches to get stuck on. And it had twists that I couldn't imagine a body taking. One woman's opinion.


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[margarita25]

I posted in regards to satanic cults being prominent in the Pacific Northwest. It was just a statement to explore other theories. I didn't offend anyone, I just was talking about a certain region.

Yes, and not unworthy of referencing/brainstorming imo, considering we had just heard there was fresh animal blood in the car.

 

[eucalyptuz]

With the yesterday’s updates we have to think that either this is the most heinous, well-calculated murder* or we have to mind-shift to begin to accept the possibility of suicide. What troubles me, and I guess many here, are all the things we have to acknowledge if we go down that road:
IF it was suicide, then is all this true?...
-It was a planned and prepared-for act and not the last-minute desperate despair because of a bad morning.
-The planning: The concealed badge at home, the texts to the carpool, the phone switched off, method(s) selected, razor and bag procured. Cutting a finger on each hand in the car and depositing blood to confuse authorities? And the animal blood…I really have no clue…apparently still wet so obviously recent, but why?
- Can she walk for a mile and a half in a town she has lived for all her life and not be seen and recognized? Then perhaps more pre-planning necessary: A walking route selected? Checked for cameras? Perhaps a hat to tuck in the hair? Perhaps even a second coat of a different color to throw off potential witnesses? All identifying possessions shed along the way (on a non-trash-collection day) and never recovered?
-Finally, without being seen at the site and without the help of barbiturates, taking herself into the shallow water of a culvert on a rainy cold morning, taking off her glasses and killing herself with a plastic bag?
-And the suggested reasoning for this method? So it will look like she didn’t choose to end her life? To spare her family distress?
-Also troubling is the family’s sense that from day one, the police seemed to think Cheryl was a runaway (possible suicide) but not one person has come forward to suggest unhappiness, marital discord, professional woes, a history of counseling, prescribed anti-depressants…nada.

I know this is just a re-cap of all that we know but when you put all the little bits in one post, it is the most unlikely incidence of suicide that I'd wager any of us have heard of.

Now I'll admit I have little experience with suicide. I have a friend whose husband (with gambling debts) drove very fast directly a wall without a seatbelt. And another acquaintance whose partner drowned at a familiar beach but was known to be depressed. Both of these deaths were deemed accidental by authorities. Many suicides are disguised as accidents, many murders are concealed by staging suicides, but how many suicides are staged as murder?!?


*This is deserving of its own post as to who, how and why? But very hard to do here without skirting close to forbidden territory of non-POI’s as surely such a murder would have to be targeted.

 

[Yvettea]

With the yesterday’s updates we have to think that either this is the most heinous, well-calculated murder* or we have to mind-shift to begin to accept the possibility of suicide. What troubles me, and I guess many here, are all the things we have to acknowledge if we go down that road:
IF it was suicide, then is all this true?...
-It was a planned and prepared-for act and not the last-minute desperate despair because of a bad morning.
-The planning: The concealed badge at home, the texts to the carpool, the phone switched off, method(s) selected, razor and bag procured. Cutting a finger on each hand in the car and depositing blood to confuse authorities? And the animal blood…I really have no clue…apparently still wet so obviously recent, but why?
- Can she walk for a mile and a half in a town she has lived for all her life and not be seen and recognized? Then perhaps more pre-planning necessary: A walking route selected? Checked for cameras? Perhaps a hat to tuck in the hair? Perhaps even a second coat of a different color to throw off potential witnesses? All identifying possessions shed along the way (on a non-trash-collection day) and never recovered?
-Finally, without being seen at the site and without the help of barbiturates, taking herself into the shallow water of a culvert on a rainy cold morning, taking off her glasses and killing herself with a plastic bag?
-And the suggested reasoning for this method? So it will look like she didn’t choose to end her life? To spare her family distress?
-Also troubling is the family’s sense that from day one, the police seemed to think Cheryl was a runaway (possible suicide) but not one person has come forward to suggest unhappiness, marital discord, professional woes, a history of counseling, prescribed anti-depressants…nada.

I know this is just a re-cap of all that we know but when you put all the little bits in one post, it is the most unlikely incidence of suicide that I'd wager any of us have heard of.

Now I'll admit I have little experience with suicide. I have a friend whose husband (with gambling debts) drove very fast directly a wall without a seatbelt. And another acquaintance whose partner drowned at a familiar beach but was known to be depressed. Both of these deaths were deemed accidental by authorities. Many suicides are disguised as accidents, many murders are concealed by staging suicides, but how many suicides are staged as murder?!?


*This is deserving of its own post as to who, how and why? But very hard to do here without skirting close to forbidden territory of non-POI’s as surely such a murder would have to be targeted.

This is where my mind has gone but it's nice to have it written down where I can refer back to it. Nicely done.

 

[Terrace12]

I am wondering if Cheryl ever played at the culvert when she was young? Having grown up here I know of a many kids that did. The property just north of the culverts now have apartment complexes but as kids we would call that land "Honda Hills". People in the neighborhood who owned motorcycles and some that didn't would spend hours on those hills.

Just curious

 

[Yvettea]

I am wondering if Cheryl ever played at the culvert when she was young? Having grown up here I know of a many kids that did. The property just north of the culverts now have apartment complexes but as kids we would call that land "Honda Hills". People in the neighborhood who owned motorcycles and some that didn't would spend hours on those hills.

Just curious

I've wondered about this; I even asked but never received an answer. Thank you.

 

[TeaTime]

I would and have put a plastic shopping bag over my head rather than get my hair drenched, only to dry off in a freezing cold office. I have also used them to protect my feet and shoes rather than walking in puddles and having wet shoes all day.

I see that her glasses were folded but where were they? At the bottom of the culvert? This doesn't suggest suicide to me. Just last night there was the story of a man who found the nude body of a young woman in the woods, her clothes neatly folded nearby. She was shot in the back 5 times - not a suicide - and the speculation was that she was trying to buy time to convince her killer not to do what he was about to do.

The plastic bag was from a restaurant she frequented. Was she taking the left overs to some tree dweller in the park? We have downright scary panhandlers here.

Are her clothes snagged at the right spots by which I mean, on the sides as she walked through brush and broken concrete as opposed to on the back or front, indicating being dragged? Are there drag marks on her shoes?

Why would she have a razor blade? Was she scrapping varnish at home? I mean think about it. How many people have razor blades in this day of disposable safety razors?

You could not sit in 2 feet of flowing water without a struggle to stay put. If you relax, you float. It is ridiculous to think that she sat around in that culvert, tying a bag around her head in 50 degree running water and holding on to something so she wouldn't float while trying to fight the instinctual urge to take off the da** bag and stand the heck up.

And the topography makes it impossible for her to have floated there from elsewhere.

I understand her car keys were found, where were they?

What kind of knockout chemicals must they have at Hutch? Chloroform?

Did Mrs. DeBoer just get some kind of acknowledgement at work, giving rise to a competitor's jealousy? Was she favored over someone else in her department? Did her recent vacation trigger a co-worker's envy or a grudge from having to cover her duties while she was gone? Is there someone enamored of Mr. DeBoer and wanted to take her from him?

Mrs. DeBoer has absolutely NO indicators of a person who is likely to commit suicide. NONE. And every suicide has at least one. Metal illness, trauma, depression, anxiety, grief, loss of a job, feeling worthless, being bullied, news of imminent death from illness - some trigger and some sign is always there. Mrs. DeBoer had none.

I absolutely do not believe this was a suicide and I never will unless something in her life is revealed that is a trigger. Happy, healthy, forward-looking people do not kill themselves.

 

[TeaTime]

I've wondered about this; I even asked but never received an answer. Thank you.

\
What jumped out to me is 'apartments" as in the perp's home.

 

[Starry Night]

\
What jumped out to me is 'apartments" as in the perp's home.

What does that mean-what you said.

 

[Terrace12]

I would and have put a plastic shopping bag over my head rather than get my hair drenched, only to dry off in a freezing cold office. I have also used them to protect my feet and shoes rather than walking in puddles and having wet shoes all day.

I see that her glasses were folded but where were they? At the bottom of the culvert? This doesn't suggest suicide to me. Just last night there was the story of a man who found the nude body of a young woman in the woods, her clothes neatly folded nearby. She was shot in the back 5 times - not a suicide - and the speculation was that she was trying to buy time to convince her killer not to do what he was about to do.

The plastic bag was from a restaurant she frequented. Was she taking the left overs to some tree dweller in the park? We have downright scary panhandlers here.

Are her clothes snagged at the right spots by which I mean, on the sides as she walked through brush and broken concrete as opposed to on the back or front, indicating being dragged? Are there drag marks on her shoes?

Why would she have a razor blade? Was she scrapping varnish at home? I mean think about it. How many people have razor blades in this day of disposable safety razors?

You could not sit in 2 feet of flowing water without a struggle to stay put. If you relax, you float. It is ridiculous to think that she sat around in that culvert, tying a bag around her head in 50 degree running water and holding on to something so she wouldn't float while trying to fight the instinctual urge to take off the da** bag and stand the heck up.

And the topography makes it impossible for her to have floated there from elsewhere.

I understand her car keys were found, where were they?

What kind of knockout chemicals must they have at Hutch? Chloroform?

Did Mrs. DeBoer just get some kind of acknowledgement at work, giving rise to a competitor's jealousy? Was she favored over someone else in her department? Did her recent vacation trigger a co-worker's envy or a grudge from having to cover her duties while she was gone? Is there someone enamored of Mr. DeBoer and wanted to take her from him?

Mrs. DeBoer has absolutely NO indicators of a person who is likely to commit suicide. NONE. And every suicide has at least one. Metal illness, trauma, depression, anxiety, grief, loss of a job, feeling worthless, being bullied, news of imminent death from illness - some trigger and some sign is always there. Mrs. DeBoer had none.

I absolutely do not believe this was a suicide and I never will unless something in her life is revealed that is a trigger. Happy, healthy, forward-looking people do nkill themselves.

Plus she just got a new kitty!

I am wondering if she simply had a razor in her pocket because she had said to family the ParknRide area was a bit shady (something like that, probably not those exact words) and if she was use to walking on the trail why wouldn't she have it? IMO

 

[kammiemc]

With the yesterday’s updates we have to think that either this is the most heinous, well-calculated murder* or we have to mind-shift to begin to accept the possibility of suicide. What troubles me, and I guess many here, are all the things we have to acknowledge if we go down that road:
IF it was suicide, then is all this true?...
-It was a planned and prepared-for act and not the last-minute desperate despair because of a bad morning.
-The planning: The concealed badge at home, the texts to the carpool, the phone switched off, method(s) selected, razor and bag procured. Cutting a finger on each hand in the car and depositing blood to confuse authorities? And the animal blood…I really have no clue…apparently still wet so obviously recent, but why?
- Can she walk for a mile and a half in a town she has lived for all her life and not be seen and recognized? Then perhaps more pre-planning necessary: A walking route selected? Checked for cameras? Perhaps a hat to tuck in the hair? Perhaps even a second coat of a different color to throw off potential witnesses? All identifying possessions shed along the way (on a non-trash-collection day) and never recovered?
-Finally, without being seen at the site and without the help of barbiturates, taking herself into the shallow water of a culvert on a rainy cold morning, taking off her glasses and killing herself with a plastic bag?
-And the suggested reasoning for this method? So it will look like she didn’t choose to end her life? To spare her family distress?
-Also troubling is the family’s sense that from day one, the police seemed to think Cheryl was a runaway (possible suicide) but not one person has come forward to suggest unhappiness, marital discord, professional woes, a history of counseling, prescribed anti-depressants…nada.

I know this is just a re-cap of all that we know but when you put all the little bits in one post, it is the most unlikely incidence of suicide that I'd wager any of us have heard of.

Now I'll admit I have little experience with suicide. I have a friend whose husband (with gambling debts) drove very fast directly a wall without a seatbelt. And another acquaintance whose partner drowned at a familiar beach but was known to be depressed. Both of these deaths were deemed accidental by authorities. Many suicides are disguised as accidents, many murders are concealed by staging suicides, but how many suicides are staged as murder?!?


*This is deserving of its own post as to who, how and why? But very hard to do here without skirting close to forbidden territory of non-POI’s as surely such a murder would have to be targeted.

I am with you. Whether it was planning by Cheryl or another, the razor blade in her pocket, the animal blood (left to be found along with her own blood from fresh cut wounds on her fingertips) and even the badge left at home (likely not a mistake since we've learned she commutes purseless, so the holder for her badge to and from work is probably her neck or coat pocket) screams pre-planned. IMO. Too many coincidences.

No one can really know what's going on in someone else's heart and mind, or their life. I am sure that in this horrible tragedy the best case scenario for Cheryl's loved ones would be to find out this was caused by a random evil perpetrator. Anything is possible. But it feels like it would have to be orchestrated by someone more invested.



And worse yet, sometimes people disappear and family has no clue if they committed suicide, were murdered, or just needed to get away. Look at another Seattleite Jeremiah Foco who disappeared never to be found.

People are coming down on LE. But I can understand how they could not be definitive of either homicide or suicide at this point.

Sometimes investigations take time! Like several months.


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[kammiemc]

I would and have put a plastic shopping bag over my head rather than get my hair drenched, only to dry off in a freezing cold office. I have also used them to protect my feet and shoes rather than walking in puddles and having wet shoes all day.

I see that her glasses were folded but where were they? At the bottom of the culvert? This doesn't suggest suicide to me. Just last night there was the story of a man who found the nude body of a young woman in the woods, her clothes neatly folded nearby. She was shot in the back 5 times - not a suicide - and the speculation was that she was trying to buy time to convince her killer not to do what he was about to do.

The plastic bag was from a restaurant she frequented. Was she taking the left overs to some tree dweller in the park? We have downright scary panhandlers here.

Are her clothes snagged at the right spots by which I mean, on the sides as she walked through brush and broken concrete as opposed to on the back or front, indicating being dragged? Are there drag marks on her shoes?

Why would she have a razor blade? Was she scrapping varnish at home? I mean think about it. How many people have razor blades in this day of disposable safety razors?

You could not sit in 2 feet of flowing water without a struggle to stay put. If you relax, you float. It is ridiculous to think that she sat around in that culvert, tying a bag around her head in 50 degree running water and holding on to something so she wouldn't float while trying to fight the instinctual urge to take off the da** bag and stand the heck up.

And the topography makes it impossible for her to have floated there from elsewhere.

I understand her car keys were found, where were they?

What kind of knockout chemicals must they have at Hutch? Chloroform?

Did Mrs. DeBoer just get some kind of acknowledgement at work, giving rise to a competitor's jealousy? Was she favored over someone else in her department? Did her recent vacation trigger a co-worker's envy or a grudge from having to cover her duties while she was gone? Is there someone enamored of Mr. DeBoer and wanted to take her from him?

Mrs. DeBoer has absolutely NO indicators of a person who is likely to commit suicide. NONE. And every suicide has at least one. Metal illness, trauma, depression, anxiety, grief, loss of a job, feeling worthless, being bullied, news of imminent death from illness - some trigger and some sign is always there. Mrs. DeBoer had none.

I absolutely do not believe this was a suicide and I never will unless something in her life is revealed that is a trigger. Happy, healthy, forward-looking people do not kill themselves.

I can understand what you are saying and completely think valid all the reasons you have against a suicide scenario. But I really can't say enough how completely and totally bizarre it would be for a middle aged woman in the PNW to put a restaurant bag over her head to protect her hair from drizzle. Especially one who was either being killed or committing suicide. Sorry to be so blunt. She was not an elderly woman coming out of her weekly hairdo. She was a professional person on her way to work to Seattle who would have been prepared for drizzle. (And honestly, we just don't give a crud about drizzle.) This was not a MacGyver situation.

ETA: the only time in my 47 years I have ever seen anyone put plastic on their head in public was my grandma after getting her hair done. And that was in the 1970's and she was in her 70's and it was in a rural town.


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[Starry Night]

I guess my thinking goes towards if it were a
murderer then perhaps evidence of homicide might be discovered.

Very perplexing case.